Cheapest way in to track racing?

[rossyl]

None of the MX5 series I can see encourage or even expect driving to and from the races....or am i wrong?

[andy97]

As I said, the only series that I know of that encourages or incentivises driving to the circuit is the HSCC 70s Roadsports one.

I do know a chap that used to drive a Peugeot 309 to the circuit, swap wheels, and then race in CSCC Tin Tops 40 min 2 driver races but he was the exception.

What is your budget for a car purchase fully prepped and ready to go? Either to buy and build yourself, or buy ready prepared?

[rossyl]

I wouldn't want to go over £5k. But really I'd like to spend £1-3k on the car.

I will do AutoSolos/Sprints initially. In order to build skill and a confidence.
Then move on to track racing.

Thanks very much for the suggestion of this series, and I hope it keeps this points advantage for driving to/from meets. It solves the major issue for me of not having a garage/driveway (so not ability to trailer) and also presumably the series must encourage "clean" driving otherwise driving to/form wouldn't be possible, so a positive on the costs side as well.

[BertBert]

Sorry Andy, we seem to be at odds, don't mean to be. I didn't say historics either, but my comment still stands.

I think the problem though is that we are guessing what the OP wants to spend. My guess is that it isn't going to be enough to go racing in pretty much any guise (maybe banger racing perhaps). Even 70s roadsports will be reasonably expensive.

Bert

[Steve H]

rossyl said:

I will do AutoSolos/Sprints initially. In order to build skill and a confidence.
Then move on to track racing.

You'll very likely achieve neither skill or confidence by sprinting, go trackdaying, get laps in, take tuition. You'll have fun, be on track at the lowest cost and do plenty of miles building up your pace and ability.

[BertBert]

I think I am just destined to disagree on this thread - apologies. Yes you need to learn how to drive a circuit and sprints are too short to do that. But in addition to learning the circuit with track days, sprints do give an essence of motorsport. A very specific discipline, no doubt but it's motorsport that many enjoy. And not the worst first step to circuit racing.
Bert

[Steve H]

Disagreements are good, makes things interesting .

For me, trackdays are the natural intro to track driving, a great way to gain experience and seat-time at (relatively) lo cost.

[rossyl]

Steve, any suggestions for a cheap track day in or near the South East? I've often thought they are overpriced.

[eastlmark]

rossyl said:

Steve, any suggestions for a cheap track day in or near the South East? I've often thought they are overpriced.

Lydden hill offer £25 sessions. they had one today, usually monthly on a Saturday, check the website: http://www.lyddenhill.co.uk/events-by-category

[Steve H]

Brands is obviously the biggest + most regular runner south of London, then maybe Goodwood? Brands can get pretty busy as it's so short, Opentrack or MSV are worth a look if you want to go there,;there's a few days on the GP layout but they are limited (and therefore costly); Goodwood tends to be limited cars on track due to noise so plenty of room but, again, more costly.

AFAIK the other proper circuits down sarf are occasional only due to noise issues.


Get up to the midlands though and you've got Silverstone, Rockingham and Mallory, or go east to Snetterton. Look at Circuit Days for events at any of these.

If you can venture north you can get to the proper tracks................

[andy97]

rossyl said:

I wouldn't want to go over £5k. But really I'd like to spend £1-3k on the car.

I will do AutoSolos/Sprints initially. In order to build skill and a confidence.
Then move on to track racing.

Thanks very much for the suggestion of this series, and I hope it keeps this points advantage for driving to/from meets. It solves the major issue for me of not having a garage/driveway (so not ability to trailer) and also presumably the series must encourage "clean" driving otherwise driving to/form wouldn't be possible, so a positive on the costs side as well.

OK, well at that budget it is going to be a big challenge.

You could get an MX5 mk1 for about £5k but as we have said no one drives them to the circuit, they are not eligible for the 70s Roadsports series I mentioned and it's difficult to get the hard top to fit over an MSA compliant roll cage.

924s don't come up for sale very often that are ready for the HSCC series but you could probably build your own. Same with an MG Midget, but you don't have a garage so that's a challenge, too.

Other cars do come up for circa £3k such as hot hatches etc but you would be entering a series where not many if any drive to the circuit..

Have a look here on PH for road legal track day cars for sale that already have a motor sport cage installed and see if you can get some one to fit the electrical cut offs and extinguishers required, and rain lights etc; get a Scrutineer to look it over and then race in something like the BARC- South East series and/ or my recommended 2 driver series such as CSCC, 750 Roadsports or MSVR Track day trophy, finding someone to share with you.

Eg:

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/...

Or,

Look at this and get someone to put a decent bolt in cage and cut offs etc,
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/motorsport/...

Note I have no opinion on the mechanical state or true suitability of these cars for racing!!

Oh, and get some instruction on track days too.

Edited by andy97 on Sunday 24th July 11:48

[MG CHRIS]

rossyl said:

Steve, any suggestions for a cheap track day in or near the South East? I've often thought they are overpriced.

If you think track days are overpriced do you really thing track racing is a bit to far away. Not many drive cars to the track for a very good point its a race car not that suitable for road use and then you got more expensive of insurance tax and mot.

You really need to think about this and do some research on your own. We have all given you different ideas up to you to find out which is right for you.

[rossyl]

Morning Andy,

Thanks very much. Looking at the 70's series, I had thought the requirements were to keep the car as standard as possible. Or, do they all require a roll cage?

With a standard car, I think I should be well in the ball park for a 70's car.

My main thinking is that in the 70s and 80s cars were not that reliable. So driving one of them to and from a track, and thrashing it in-between might not work best.

Thanks for your help.

[Fishy Dave]

You can drive many race cars to and from the circuit, but there is that worry about how you get back if an incident occurs. I raced an Elise for a few rounds in the Castle Combe GTs last season, driving to and from the circuit each time. The car was unreliable sadly but did make it home each time. I used to drive my Caterham to circuits when racing too, before buying a trailer.




(Racing against John Chasey, a good bloke, now TVR Chief Exec)

End of last season I shared a 45 minute 750MC race with Andy97 at Donington and really enjoyed myself and per minute of racing it was certainly cheaper than racing my own car.

Having always raced on a very tight budget I've got a few tips:

Focus on racing at your local circuits, possibly in a number of different series/championships, don't worry about having to do a full season.
Choose a mass produced car model that you can pick up parts from the local motor factors (i.e. not an Elise with a non-original engine!)
Use 2nd hand tyres (yes, really!)
Avoid a series more likely to result in panel damage
Don't waste money on significant power upgrades as it starts the slippery slope of needing to upgrade the brakes, suspension, fuel pump, injectors, ecu, oil cooling etc. etc.
Buy a race car that is already converted and ready to go. I enjoyed the build process of turning a car from road to race and it does mean you get to know the car, but it can be a more expensive way. A light weight, low powered car is usually cheaper to run on consumables than a heavier, more powerful car.

Hope that helps, cheers, Dave

Edited by Fishy Dave on Monday 25th July 12:08

[Altrezia]

Seriously. Check out Production BMW. It really is the cheapest (one make) race series in the UK.

I bought my race car for £2600, I got it road-legal (easily) and drove it to every round in year 1.
I came 11th in the championship of almost 40 cars. Entry fees are under £300 per round, tyres are £260-300 a set, though I used old part worn tyres for the first year. They also race on great tracks as they are well supported by MSVR - Brands GP, Silverstone GP, Donnington, Rockingham, Oulton etc.

I don't race with them anymore, but would recommend it to anyone looking for a good race series with decent sized grids.

http://www.pbmwc.co.uk

[rossyl]

Fishy Dave said:

You can drive many race cars to and from the circuit, but there is that worry about how you get back if an incident occurs...

Avoid a series more likely to result in panel damage

Hope that helps, cheers, Dave

Dave that is really helpful. Thanks very much. Do you know of any series less likely to result in damage in the South East (or near)?

Altrezia said:

Seriously. Check out Production BMW. It really is the cheapest (one make) race series in the UK.

I bought my race car for £2600, I got it road-legal (easily) and drove it to every round in year 1.
I came 11th in the championship of almost 40 cars. Entry fees are under £300 per round, tyres are £260-300 a set, though I used old part worn tyres for the first year. They also race on great tracks as they are well supported by MSVR - Brands GP, Silverstone GP, Donnington, Rockingham, Oulton etc.

I don't race with them anymore, but would recommend it to anyone looking for a good race series with decent sized grids.

http://www.pbmwc.co.uk

This is brilliant thanks very much. Will check it out. A few questions if you don't mind...
Was Production BMW your first bit of track racing?
The races - are they one day, or spread over two days? If two days, what do the first and second day consist of?
Is it s friendly series?
How much damage did you sustain to the car in your average race?
Are body panels cheap to find?
Any other thoughts?

Thank you

Edited by rossyl on Monday 25th July 13:39

[Fishy Dave]

Best advice I can give is to go along to different events to see for yourself. Worth emailing your shortlisted clubs/series saying that you are seriously interested in racing with them in the future and asking for a complimentary ticket. All races have some sort of contact sooner or later, so it comes down to how much, how often, if it is intentional and how the club/officials deal with it.
I work for the CSCC and would be happy to invite you along to an event so you can see how you find us. We are at Thruxton on the 13th and 14th of August if that suits you? If so drop me an email [e-mail]

[Altrezia]

rossyl said:

This is brilliant thanks very much. Will check it out. A few questions if you don't mind...
Was Production BMW your first bit of track racing?
The races - are they one day, or spread over two days? If two days, what do the first and second day consist of?
Is it s friendly series?
How much damage did you sustain to the car in your average race?
Are body panels cheap to find?
Any other thoughts?

Thank you

Hiya.

Yes PBMWC was my first track racing - I had done a few trackdays over a few years, but wife said "you should go racing!" so I did.

Races are over 1 or 2 days. On the split days, it's possible to enter another series by the same organizers called Toyo Tyres Racing Saloons - in which the PBMW cars have their own class - which you can use as cheap extra track time.
Here's a random timetable I found from earlier in the year: http://msvracing.co.uk/media/1761/Timetable%2023%2...

Very friendly paddock and everyone helps each-other - it's not uncommon to have a few competitors helping another competitor replacing a part to get them back out on track - though the cars are reliable for the most part. I had zero DNFs in mine over 2 years. The guys in the paddock also do BBQ's and things over the weekend, and I still go on curry nights with the guys despite not racing with them in almost a year.

I went through 4 or 5 front wings, and 1 door during my 2 years - but all but 1 of those was my fault or a 50/50 move The cars are very robust, and the racing is very close. Here is a video from the guys racing at Brands earlier this year: https://youtu.be/Wn4lxJmer8Q?t=2m9s

Parts are dirt cheap - engines can be had for £200, panels can be bought brand new cheaply via GSF, most bits can be found on E30 Zone or eBay, or via a whole load of breakers/indys.

The cars are also easy to work on - and modifications are pretty much restricted to suspension and safety mods, so you don't have to spend buckets to be competitive.

Go and watch them race and see what you think. They're racing at Brand Hatch on the GP loop at the end of august. That weekend is a good weekend of racing anyway, and I'll also be there racing in the Lotus Cup

Edit to add:
How can you NOT want to be part of this? I almost fancy giving it another crack!

Edited by Altrezia on Monday 25th July 14:05

[binnerboy]

the BMW thingy mentioned does look cheap

http://classifieds.seloc.org/ads/production-bmw-ra...

ready to rock and roll you would just need a trailer and somewhere to store it :-)

[andye30m3]

rossyl said:

This is brilliant thanks very much. Will check it out. A few questions if you don't mind...
Was Production BMW your first bit of track racing?
The races - are they one day, or spread over two days? If two days, what do the first and second day consist of?
Is it s friendly series?
How much damage did you sustain to the car in your average race?
Are body panels cheap to find?
Any other thoughts?

Thank you

Edited by rossyl on Monday 25th July 13:39

I also race in Production BMW and have for the last a number of years and again other than sprinting was my first racing.

The races tend to be on a Sunday, as Alex said there is also the option of doing the TTRS race on the Saturday which can be useful test time without needing to take friday off work for the official test days

The paddock is very friendly, just this weekend one of the potential front runners cracked a sump in practise and was lent one buy one of the teams running cars for direct competitors (this is pretty common when issues crop up)

Average race I'd expect zero damage, in 4 or 5 years racing I've had one front wing and one rear quarter. The organisers are very keen for clean racing and I believe were the first club to introduce their own drive standards penalties, something which other clubs have started to use.

Panels are generally very easy to find and if it comes to it I expect most are still available from BMW.

biggest expense I've found this year is tyres but I could have been more frugal in this department, having said that used R888R's in 195/50 15 sell well on ebay.

There are teams like graves Motorsport https://www.facebook.com/GravesMotorsport who will rent you a car at a very reasonable rate if you wanted to come and have a go.

Edited by andye30m3 on Monday 25th July 16:55