Race numbers on road car
Discussion
Corpulent Tosser said:
I had problems with my car a couple of years back at a sprint, sorted the problem and took it out onto the adjoining road to drive it up and down, not speeding, just to check it was OK, when I drove back into the paddock there was the Clerk of the Course and a scrutineer waiting to 'have a word with me' about taking it on the road with race numbers.
So yes it is legal but could get you in bother with MSA, and the cost and inconvenience of removing/replacing numbers is minimal.
There was a very noisy MK2 Escort which did this at the FDMC Rushmoor sprint a couple of years ago. The point is not about legality, it's all about not pissing off local residents and losing motorsport venues. Even the established ones are getting harder to use, e.g. North Weald, Goodwood etc.So yes it is legal but could get you in bother with MSA, and the cost and inconvenience of removing/replacing numbers is minimal.
It's not hard or expensive to cover up numbers so I don't understand why some people have a problem doing it. It's just selfish flaunting the rules when popping out for fuel or whatever. You're risking the future of whatever event you're at.
Edited by s2ka on Saturday 5th November 00:10
Every single multistage rally does this, as the cars drive between stages. Of course, competitors are instructed to drive in a civilised manner between stages, to avoid bothering neighbours.
And at a single venue event, competitors should bring enough fuel with them (Another legal minefield, but let that go for now) and the officials may have concerns as suggested, but who brings spare numbers so that they can drive on road without them and put up new ones for the PM? Or plastic to cover them?
Better, competitors should drive in a way that will not draw attention, from residents or police. Have to say, it's often spectators who are the greater offenders. Real rally speccies know how to behave, but there is a rowdy element.
John
And at a single venue event, competitors should bring enough fuel with them (Another legal minefield, but let that go for now) and the officials may have concerns as suggested, but who brings spare numbers so that they can drive on road without them and put up new ones for the PM? Or plastic to cover them?
Better, competitors should drive in a way that will not draw attention, from residents or police. Have to say, it's often spectators who are the greater offenders. Real rally speccies know how to behave, but there is a rowdy element.
John
The reason the MSA / motor clubs do not want you driving to and from events with numbers on the cars is the fact that many venues niw are under pressure from environmental groups etc. and they just wamt to keep as low profile as they can to appease the Fun Police. A crash involving a conpetition car leaving an MSA event , no matter who's fault it is, could attract much unwanted publicity. So they just request that competitiors don't do it, which 99.9% of competitors do because we understand the implications it could bring. My numbers cost about 10p so not a problem for me to comply. The Clerk Of The Course at the events or MSA Steward have the power / right to endorse our competition licences if they so wish for breaking the rules. But most don't break them, because we are team players. We have to have them completely covered up too, not just crossed out.
I do understand the want / need / kudos / advertising / publicity to drive around with numbers on ROAD cars from the likes of estate agents and guys with no girlfriend, but generally people who compete and want our hobby to continue generally don't.
It's not actually illegal to drive around with race numbers on your car though, so if you feel the need, just do it .
I do understand the want / need / kudos / advertising / publicity to drive around with numbers on ROAD cars from the likes of estate agents and guys with no girlfriend, but generally people who compete and want our hobby to continue generally don't.
It's not actually illegal to drive around with race numbers on your car though, so if you feel the need, just do it .
Furyblade_Lee said:
The reason the MSA / motor clubs do not want you driving to and from events with numbers on the cars is the fact that many venues niw are under pressure from environmental groups etc. and they just wamt to keep as low profile as they can to appease the Fun Police. A crash involving a conpetition car leaving an MSA event , no matter who's fault it is, could attract much unwanted publicity. So they just request that competitiors don't do it, which 99.9% of competitors do because we understand the implications it could bring. My numbers cost about 10p so not a problem for me to comply. The Clerk Of The Course at the events or MSA Steward have the power / right to endorse our competition licences if they so wish for breaking the rules. But most don't break them, because we are team players. We have to have them completely covered up too, not just crossed out.
I do understand the want / need / kudos / advertising / publicity to drive around with numbers on ROAD cars from the likes of estate agents and guys with no girlfriend, but generally people who compete and want our hobby to continue generally don't.
It's not actually illegal to drive around with race numbers on your car though, so if you feel the need, just do it .
I agree. The MSA's request / rule is perfectly sensible. If a member of the public is overtaken by a noisy car then it might be seen as someone driving a bit irresponsibility. If a member of the public is overtaken by a noisy car with racing numbers then it might be seen as one of that lot from the circuit driving irresponsibility and therefore a reason to protest. I do understand the want / need / kudos / advertising / publicity to drive around with numbers on ROAD cars from the likes of estate agents and guys with no girlfriend, but generally people who compete and want our hobby to continue generally don't.
It's not actually illegal to drive around with race numbers on your car though, so if you feel the need, just do it .
Complying with these rules makes sense.
Drumroll said:
As I said in my last post, why do you feel you are any different from any other competitor who takes there car on the road after an event(MSA)?
Hence my question over cost, numbers cost next to nothing in relation to everything else that goes with running a comp. car.
The reason for the rule AFAIK is to try and separate the MSA from people not driving on events. Remember there are several different events that do use public roads.
It's really just the MSA being a wee bit too pretentious. A reg likely written by a load of grumpy old farts who probably don't even take part in any of the events they write rules for.Hence my question over cost, numbers cost next to nothing in relation to everything else that goes with running a comp. car.
The reason for the rule AFAIK is to try and separate the MSA from people not driving on events. Remember there are several different events that do use public roads.
I'm sure both BMW and Fiat have sold the MINI/500 with an option of a racing number decal, they might even still do. And nobody thinks they are 'racing' when seen on the roads.
I suspect there was good intent with the MSA regs, but it is somewhat pointless in reality and achieves nothing.
s2ka said:
There was a very noisy MK2 Escort which did this at the FDMC Rushmoor sprint a couple of years ago. The point is not about legality, it's all about not pissing off local residents and losing motorsport venues. Even the established ones are getting harder to use, e.g. North Weald, Goodwood etc.
It's not hard or expensive to cover up numbers so I don't understand why some people have a problem doing it. It's just selfish flaunting the rules when popping out for fuel or whatever. You're risking the future of whatever event you're at.
So how would removing the race numbers have made the Escort quieter?? It's not hard or expensive to cover up numbers so I don't understand why some people have a problem doing it. It's just selfish flaunting the rules when popping out for fuel or whatever. You're risking the future of whatever event you're at.
Edited by s2ka on Saturday 5th November 00:10
velocemitch said:
The MSA (or before that RAC) rule about competition numbers has been in place for decades. It may well be more relevant than it has ever been, but don't try and couch it in terms of it being an old farts rule.
Why not? It servers no 'real' purpose, just a perceived one, where it actually ultimately fails.300bhp/ton said:
velocemitch said:
The MSA (or before that RAC) rule about competition numbers has been in place for decades. It may well be more relevant than it has ever been, but don't try and couch it in terms of it being an old farts rule.
Why not? It servers no 'real' purpose, just a perceived one, where it actually ultimately fails.Furyblade_Lee said:
Well, it might not serve a purpose until someone has an RTA leaving an MSA event which is held at one of an increasing number of venues where locals are trying to get the motorsport stopped. Then it is huge ammunition for the bad guys publicity wise. As I think has been stated earlier in the thread, this is not really an issue for most of the people who hold MSA licences, we see the big picture and just comply, it's a non-story for 99%
Sorry that's a poor argument. It's just as likely or even more likely that a spectator with a number on their car could be involved in an RTA while leaving the same MSA event. There is no logical argument that it is a sane regulation.
With the greatest of respect 300bhp/ton I think you are quite wrong.
Have you ever been on the organising team for a motor sport event, have you had to carry the responsibility of what competitors might do, ostensibly within your realm of responsibility?. If you have you aren't taking it seriously enough, if you haven't, you might want to reappraise your views.
Have you ever been on the organising team for a motor sport event, have you had to carry the responsibility of what competitors might do, ostensibly within your realm of responsibility?. If you have you aren't taking it seriously enough, if you haven't, you might want to reappraise your views.
300bhp/ton said:
Furyblade_Lee said:
Well, it might not serve a purpose until someone has an RTA leaving an MSA event which is held at one of an increasing number of venues where locals are trying to get the motorsport stopped. Then it is huge ammunition for the bad guys publicity wise. As I think has been stated earlier in the thread, this is not really an issue for most of the people who hold MSA licences, we see the big picture and just comply, it's a non-story for 99%
Sorry that's a poor argument. It's just as likely or even more likely that a spectator with a number on their car could be involved in an RTA while leaving the same MSA event. There is no logical argument that it is a sane regulation.
Seeing as you put it like that, with all the liability and risk to deal with, I can kinda see the other side...
velocemitch said:
With the greatest of respect 300bhp/ton I think you are quite wrong.
Have you ever been on the organising team for a motor sport event, have you had to carry the responsibility of what competitors might do, ostensibly within your realm of responsibility?. If you have you aren't taking it seriously enough, if you haven't, you might want to reappraise your views.
Have you ever been on the organising team for a motor sport event, have you had to carry the responsibility of what competitors might do, ostensibly within your realm of responsibility?. If you have you aren't taking it seriously enough, if you haven't, you might want to reappraise your views.
I was leaving one of my hillclimb events last year when a marshal stopped me and asked me to remove the (taped through) numbers as the CoC was clamping down on offenders. I didn't have anything to completely obscure the numbers so peeled them off.
Since then I've always taken them off and invariably my number changes between events anyway so it's not a big deal. The plain white backgrounds are fine, it's the numbers themselves that cause the issue.
I don't know why, but equally it's an MSA regulation that we all sign up to when applying for a licence
9.2.6. Competition numbers must be covered at all times whilst driving on the public highway.
It doesn't matter whether it's legal from a DVLA perspective, it's the rules by which we play.
Since then I've always taken them off and invariably my number changes between events anyway so it's not a big deal. The plain white backgrounds are fine, it's the numbers themselves that cause the issue.
I don't know why, but equally it's an MSA regulation that we all sign up to when applying for a licence
9.2.6. Competition numbers must be covered at all times whilst driving on the public highway.
It doesn't matter whether it's legal from a DVLA perspective, it's the rules by which we play.
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