Waved yellows - how slow do you go?
Discussion
Not sure if this has been done before, but...
This weekend in a club meet at Croft, a car went into the gravel at Clervaux and waved yellows were out. I could see the tractor thing lifting the car off as I was coming down the straight, so backed off significantly until the green at Hawthorn.
2 cars behind gained on me fairly significantly, and one of the drivers post race said I slowed way too much. I disagree. I believe I was about 30% slower under the yellows,,so around 80 instead of 110 down the straight and coasted through the corner.
To me the rules are fairly clear:
15.1 (f) Yellow flag – Double Waved: Great danger. Slow down considerably. Be prepared to suddenly change from the projected racing line, or take other evasive action including stopping if necessary. No overtaking. (This signal may be supplemented or replaced by flashing yellow light(s), as an added warning).
Personally I don't muck around - it's a club race and unforgivable if you hit a Marshall. You don't know what caused the car to go off, and the worst case it's oil (marshals don't always spot this) and you go off too, into the live snatch vehicle.
What's not clear is how much advantage you can gain on the car in front / person behind can gain on you, and what the limit is for speed short of not setting fastest laps.
Discuss.
This weekend in a club meet at Croft, a car went into the gravel at Clervaux and waved yellows were out. I could see the tractor thing lifting the car off as I was coming down the straight, so backed off significantly until the green at Hawthorn.
2 cars behind gained on me fairly significantly, and one of the drivers post race said I slowed way too much. I disagree. I believe I was about 30% slower under the yellows,,so around 80 instead of 110 down the straight and coasted through the corner.
To me the rules are fairly clear:
15.1 (f) Yellow flag – Double Waved: Great danger. Slow down considerably. Be prepared to suddenly change from the projected racing line, or take other evasive action including stopping if necessary. No overtaking. (This signal may be supplemented or replaced by flashing yellow light(s), as an added warning).
Personally I don't muck around - it's a club race and unforgivable if you hit a Marshall. You don't know what caused the car to go off, and the worst case it's oil (marshals don't always spot this) and you go off too, into the live snatch vehicle.
What's not clear is how much advantage you can gain on the car in front / person behind can gain on you, and what the limit is for speed short of not setting fastest laps.
Discuss.
You know you did the right thing by slowing significantly for all the reasons you listed. I'm sure it's frustrating when others gain an advantage through a yellow section but you only have to think about what happened to Jules Bianchi because he kept pushing.
Racing drivers have always pushed the boundaries to gain tenths but yellow zones aren't the place. This is an area where the top formulas need to improve and hopefully it'll filter down the classes. Should be as unacceptable as turning up drunk to race.
Racing drivers have always pushed the boundaries to gain tenths but yellow zones aren't the place. This is an area where the top formulas need to improve and hopefully it'll filter down the classes. Should be as unacceptable as turning up drunk to race.
I was overtaken under yellows recently, we were still passing the incident that was being attended by marshals but in the distance the next marshals post was showing greens and the car behind decided that he was good to go 
.
TBH I wouldn't say I'd slowed as much as 30% but plenty enough to be ably to comply with the rules and deal with anything that was going on, hadn't counted on being passed though!
Am I right in thinking you should be adjacent to the post showing greens before overtaking?
. TBH I wouldn't say I'd slowed as much as 30% but plenty enough to be ably to comply with the rules and deal with anything that was going on, hadn't counted on being passed though!
Am I right in thinking you should be adjacent to the post showing greens before overtaking?
How much do I slow?
No enough if I am honest.
It does depend on circuit visibility. At Rockingham on the weekend there was a blown up car on the start finish straight, pulled over on the grass on the inside. Guy was getting out. Double waved yellows. Didnt slow down at all
Other times I have "been prepared to stop" as I couldn't see around the bend/hill etc...
No enough if I am honest.
It does depend on circuit visibility. At Rockingham on the weekend there was a blown up car on the start finish straight, pulled over on the grass on the inside. Guy was getting out. Double waved yellows. Didnt slow down at all
Other times I have "been prepared to stop" as I couldn't see around the bend/hill etc...
Depends on the situation:
good visibility to the issue ie down to turn 1 at croft, back off a touch.
bad visibility ie yellows into a corner where exit is blind or the issue is not obvious, back of a reasonable about so i can deal with what ever i need to round the next corner.
Side note, I've seen people being caught out by people braking when they see yellows regardless of whats if front of them. So if you have people close behind you i would back off an amount that isn't going to surprise the chap behind you!
But being "racing drivers" we are always looking for an opportunity. See a race i was having with a Porsche Boxter at Spa, this was last lap watch from about 41:50 for 30 seconds or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgipeilRFw
We are catching a back marker, yellows pop up, boxter overtakes very marginally mind, i don't. I lift off to match pace with back marker, get round corner, I can see the issue, a spun car, and can see the green boards, so i accelerate while still under yellows, and time it such that i overtake just after the green light board, but before the green flag of a marshal on the right. (the marshal with the green flag took exception to this, was waving his finger and generally gesticulating on the cooling down lap).
So I minimize lost time, without braking the rules.... just. but it would have been safer for me to sit well behind the back marker till passed the greens.
good visibility to the issue ie down to turn 1 at croft, back off a touch.
bad visibility ie yellows into a corner where exit is blind or the issue is not obvious, back of a reasonable about so i can deal with what ever i need to round the next corner.
Side note, I've seen people being caught out by people braking when they see yellows regardless of whats if front of them. So if you have people close behind you i would back off an amount that isn't going to surprise the chap behind you!
But being "racing drivers" we are always looking for an opportunity. See a race i was having with a Porsche Boxter at Spa, this was last lap watch from about 41:50 for 30 seconds or so:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVgipeilRFw
We are catching a back marker, yellows pop up, boxter overtakes very marginally mind, i don't. I lift off to match pace with back marker, get round corner, I can see the issue, a spun car, and can see the green boards, so i accelerate while still under yellows, and time it such that i overtake just after the green light board, but before the green flag of a marshal on the right. (the marshal with the green flag took exception to this, was waving his finger and generally gesticulating on the cooling down lap).
So I minimize lost time, without braking the rules.... just. but it would have been safer for me to sit well behind the back marker till passed the greens.
Some interesting and honest responses.
One thing I always think whe I see someone's had a big off, is that you don't know why they went off. Worst case is due to an oil leak, and if you haven't lifted off a good amount you may well end up right where they are.
The following lap I've added a bit more speed but you still need to have visually slowed down.
It's a tricky one but I will stick to the side of caution.
One thing I always think whe I see someone's had a big off, is that you don't know why they went off. Worst case is due to an oil leak, and if you haven't lifted off a good amount you may well end up right where they are.
The following lap I've added a bit more speed but you still need to have visually slowed down.
It's a tricky one but I will stick to the side of caution.
what I find worrying is the assertion that if you can see what the incident is, you adjust your speed accordingly. You can't see all that may have gone on. Example you can see a car against a barrier, but what you can't know is if the car has come off after spinning on it's own oil. Marshals are dealing with the incident so waved yellow is displayed, only when they know can see what has gone on will you get a yellow and red flag.
Using that logic if you can see the incident you will react accordingly, we may as well do away with flag signals altogether.
I have been on a post when there has been an incident and it has taken a couple of seconds to see where all the cars have gone, so I fail to see how any driver can take in all that may have happened whilst still competing.
What is even more worrying is race drivers not knowing the flag signals. You are not permitted to overtake from the first post showing a yellow flag until you have passed the green flag.
Using that logic if you can see the incident you will react accordingly, we may as well do away with flag signals altogether.
I have been on a post when there has been an incident and it has taken a couple of seconds to see where all the cars have gone, so I fail to see how any driver can take in all that may have happened whilst still competing.
What is even more worrying is race drivers not knowing the flag signals. You are not permitted to overtake from the first post showing a yellow flag until you have passed the green flag.
Edited by Drumroll on Monday 19th September 20:31
The problem as I see it is akin to motorway matrix signs warning you of fog - which evaporated hours ago . On occasion yellows are shown unnecessarily and remain in situ for too long. Predictably, they are often ignored so far as speed is concerned and a prudent driver can be punished for not breaking the rules. We perhaps need a half way house between waved yellows and red flag or safety car(the latter now often deployed for ludicrously trivial reasons and for yawningly long periods.)
roddo said:
Drumroll said:
You are not permitted to overtake from the first post showing a yellow flag until you have passed the green flag.
ExactlyDrivers will always push the boundaries but not knowing the rules
Very valid points about dropped fluids, I've gone off on anti freeze before, I couldn’t see it, didn’t even realise, I thought I had a flat tyre! 3 people went off after me and had a big accident on the grass. So all well and good seeing someone in the grass, not knowing they have spun thinking I won’t bother lifting much because they are off track, you could follow them in!
With reference to seeing yellows, for a car that’s had a spin, if that car is recovering and going slowly. It’s my interpretation that you are allowed to overtake the recovering car, not based on anything substantial more common sense.
Another confusing one with flags is safety car re starts: you can’t overtake till you cross the start finish line, even if marshals are waving green flags before. That’s caught a fair few people out!
Video of loosing it on anti freeze 5mins ish the start was also pretty poor if u want to see a how not to do it vid!
https://youtu.be/QQmn3Uv7Lgg
https://youtu.be/QQmn3Uv7Lgg
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