Spire GT3 RGB Racer
Discussion
So onto the 4th meeting of the season at Snetterton 300. Testing was Ok ish... Pace from previous seasons wasn't there, but seemingly the same for everyone. We are still trying to get the best out of the new control tyres but the circuit just seemed to offer up little grip all weekend as well. Ultimately it doesn't matter as it's the same for everyone but it's difficult to get your head around whether your pace is good or not relatively speaking.
Saturday came and I was feeling reasonably confident for qualifying & Race 1, the car was going alright and whilst I wasn't over the moon pace wise I'd got to a point where I'd figured that everyone was struggling so it didn't matter.
Out for qualifying we went and the car felt good, on the second half of my first flying lap albeit in traffic it all went to s
t and I had gear selection problems. I did a few more slow laps to make sure I qualified then came in.
Had about 4 hours to see if it could be fixed, ended up removing the clutch, basket, gear selector shaft and detent and basically turning it through the gears by hand on the shift drum to verify all gears were there. The shift shaft was fine this time unlike at Cadwell but the retaining tab had a slight bend, just enough to allow enough float to stop it accurately turning the drum to select gears. We must be taking like a millimeter too much, at first I thought it was gearbox fked as nothing obvious was jumping out. I tapped that back and was very careful reassembling.
Ran through gears on jack and then around the paddock, then it was just a case of hoping it was ok under load. Thankfully it was.
Race 1 - started 12th, great start into 5th by the second corner, unfortunately by the time we got to Agostini there was a red flag.
Re started from original positions... Many expletives were said.
Second start nowhere near as good, some carnage ahead dropped me back even further but fought back to 4th. Then another incident behind us and bloody safety car comes out. We were sat behind the safety car for the two slowest laps ever which ran the clock down to the point where only one race lap remained, rolling start from 4th and I got to 2nd, a tenth off 1st by the line. Not a bad recovery all things considered but if it was a clean race I probably could have won it.
Video here
https://youtu.be/stBhSSn5wuE
Race 2 was more straightforward, grid set by race 1 fastest lap put me on pole. Lead from the start and finished 8 something seconds up the road.
Saturday came and I was feeling reasonably confident for qualifying & Race 1, the car was going alright and whilst I wasn't over the moon pace wise I'd got to a point where I'd figured that everyone was struggling so it didn't matter.
Out for qualifying we went and the car felt good, on the second half of my first flying lap albeit in traffic it all went to s
t and I had gear selection problems. I did a few more slow laps to make sure I qualified then came in. Had about 4 hours to see if it could be fixed, ended up removing the clutch, basket, gear selector shaft and detent and basically turning it through the gears by hand on the shift drum to verify all gears were there. The shift shaft was fine this time unlike at Cadwell but the retaining tab had a slight bend, just enough to allow enough float to stop it accurately turning the drum to select gears. We must be taking like a millimeter too much, at first I thought it was gearbox f
ked as nothing obvious was jumping out. I tapped that back and was very careful reassembling. Ran through gears on jack and then around the paddock, then it was just a case of hoping it was ok under load. Thankfully it was.
Race 1 - started 12th, great start into 5th by the second corner, unfortunately by the time we got to Agostini there was a red flag.
Re started from original positions... Many expletives were said.
Second start nowhere near as good, some carnage ahead dropped me back even further but fought back to 4th. Then another incident behind us and bloody safety car comes out. We were sat behind the safety car for the two slowest laps ever which ran the clock down to the point where only one race lap remained, rolling start from 4th and I got to 2nd, a tenth off 1st by the line. Not a bad recovery all things considered but if it was a clean race I probably could have won it.
Video here
https://youtu.be/stBhSSn5wuE
Race 2 was more straightforward, grid set by race 1 fastest lap put me on pole. Lead from the start and finished 8 something seconds up the road.
Just a note for anyone still reading
We go to Anglesey next weekend on the coastal circuit.
Really looking forward to it, one of my favourite tracks.
Car is all ready to go. Reversed some setup stuff I did for snett and made some tweaks that I'm hoping will help at Anglesey, mainly to aid front grip given its a twisty track and if you've got no front end you'll be nowhere. To be honest understeer has been a theme of the season so these tweaks may help everywhere but we'll see. Still figuring out how best to get the car working on the new tyres since we switched to the AR1s.
Other stuff such as gearing etc all done too as well as general maintenance.
I think it may be possible to win the championship at Anglesey...but also all manner of things could still go wrong so I'm not gonna get ahead of myself. The approach has to be the same as every other weekend regardless - score as many points as possible whilst keeping my nose clean. Will know more mid way through the weekend, ultimately it doesn't change things for me in terms of my approach or prep etc anyway.
Anglesey is a triple header sprint weekend, meaning quali and race 1 Saturday, race 2 and 3 Sunday. Races are 15 min not 20 like usual. This means lots of points available but also lots to lose if something goes awry.
If we get live stream I'll pop the links up, for now here's a hot lap from a few years ago
https://youtu.be/iwKGq7fgwYc?feature=shared
We go to Anglesey next weekend on the coastal circuit.
Really looking forward to it, one of my favourite tracks.
Car is all ready to go. Reversed some setup stuff I did for snett and made some tweaks that I'm hoping will help at Anglesey, mainly to aid front grip given its a twisty track and if you've got no front end you'll be nowhere. To be honest understeer has been a theme of the season so these tweaks may help everywhere but we'll see. Still figuring out how best to get the car working on the new tyres since we switched to the AR1s.
Other stuff such as gearing etc all done too as well as general maintenance.
I think it may be possible to win the championship at Anglesey...but also all manner of things could still go wrong so I'm not gonna get ahead of myself. The approach has to be the same as every other weekend regardless - score as many points as possible whilst keeping my nose clean. Will know more mid way through the weekend, ultimately it doesn't change things for me in terms of my approach or prep etc anyway.
Anglesey is a triple header sprint weekend, meaning quali and race 1 Saturday, race 2 and 3 Sunday. Races are 15 min not 20 like usual. This means lots of points available but also lots to lose if something goes awry.
If we get live stream I'll pop the links up, for now here's a hot lap from a few years ago
https://youtu.be/iwKGq7fgwYc?feature=shared
Edited by Yazza54 on Saturday 9th September 09:04
.Unfortunately no live stream, live timing here
https://www.theresultslive.co.uk/750-motor-club/20...
Sat
Quali - 10.50am
Race 1 - 3.20pm
Sun
Race 2 - 9.55am
Race 3 - 3.00pm
Ready to rock
Forecast looks very iffy. I'm fairly confident wet or dry but there are things I wanted to evaluate in testing, so that may skew things a little.. same for everyone though.
Just had the testing schedule through .. 6x20 min sessions, normally we get 4x30 at all the MSV circuits which is too few and too long, also MSV test days this season have been a good 100-150 quid more. Gotta love Anglesey.
https://www.theresultslive.co.uk/750-motor-club/20...
Sat
Quali - 10.50am
Race 1 - 3.20pm
Sun
Race 2 - 9.55am
Race 3 - 3.00pm
Ready to rock
Forecast looks very iffy. I'm fairly confident wet or dry but there are things I wanted to evaluate in testing, so that may skew things a little.. same for everyone though.
Just had the testing schedule through .. 6x20 min sessions, normally we get 4x30 at all the MSV circuits which is too few and too long, also MSV test days this season have been a good 100-150 quid more. Gotta love Anglesey.
Hi Yazza,
Funny thing this post - I've been researching a bit into a few different formulas, including S1000 - I literally log into Pistonheads wondering if anyone is talking about it, and lo and behold yours is one of the first! I've had a good skim through so far (I'll read in more depth when it's not 3am!).
But I can't hold back my questions so long for that - Wanted to ask a few specific ones:
I notice you changed cars along the way since you started (I'm not quite sure if that's once or twice now?). I sort of expected cars to be very even so it surprises me a bit to see someone changing cars. How much difference do the latest cars make compared to older ones, and what would you say are the better models to look out for? Are there significant price differences in used cars as such?
Secondly overall how have you found reliability to be, for yourself and the grid as a whole in both engines and other componentry?
Thirdly (of course I understand totally if you rather not answer this, or rather not openly on the forum and rather via pm), but how much in maintenance do they take to run generally, and what sort of cost might those jobs create? Any specific jobs or components you'd take note of? I have a reasonable idea of some of the main costs of racing in S1000, but general maintenance and components is a very difficult factor to take account of. Likewise crash damages are something I'm wary of.
Really appreciate any insights you might be able to give - fwiw I race Vee also in 750mc, in fact I own with your fellow competitor Paul Smith's ex-Vee (which unfortunately has seen better days), but have been having a torrid time of it the last couple of years and am starting to very seriously look around at alternatives. I've been speaking a bit with Mittell so far, but I'd love some neutral insights and real world experiences from a current driver such as yourself!
Have a good race at Anglesey this weekend - unfortunately I'm not racing it myself, otherwise i would come to find you and say hi in person! (combination of difficulty in travelling, budget, and the fact my engine is once more in bits...
)
Huge thanks, and great thread!
Funny thing this post - I've been researching a bit into a few different formulas, including S1000 - I literally log into Pistonheads wondering if anyone is talking about it, and lo and behold yours is one of the first! I've had a good skim through so far (I'll read in more depth when it's not 3am!).
But I can't hold back my questions so long for that - Wanted to ask a few specific ones:
I notice you changed cars along the way since you started (I'm not quite sure if that's once or twice now?). I sort of expected cars to be very even so it surprises me a bit to see someone changing cars. How much difference do the latest cars make compared to older ones, and what would you say are the better models to look out for? Are there significant price differences in used cars as such?
Secondly overall how have you found reliability to be, for yourself and the grid as a whole in both engines and other componentry?
Thirdly (of course I understand totally if you rather not answer this, or rather not openly on the forum and rather via pm), but how much in maintenance do they take to run generally, and what sort of cost might those jobs create? Any specific jobs or components you'd take note of? I have a reasonable idea of some of the main costs of racing in S1000, but general maintenance and components is a very difficult factor to take account of. Likewise crash damages are something I'm wary of.
Really appreciate any insights you might be able to give - fwiw I race Vee also in 750mc, in fact I own with your fellow competitor Paul Smith's ex-Vee (which unfortunately has seen better days), but have been having a torrid time of it the last couple of years and am starting to very seriously look around at alternatives. I've been speaking a bit with Mittell so far, but I'd love some neutral insights and real world experiences from a current driver such as yourself!
Have a good race at Anglesey this weekend - unfortunately I'm not racing it myself, otherwise i would come to find you and say hi in person! (combination of difficulty in travelling, budget, and the fact my engine is once more in bits...
) Huge thanks, and great thread!
Edited by RiknRoll on Saturday 16th September 02:50
I'll take the time to respond to the above properly when my heads straight, but what a st weekend I've had. I'm exhausted and got very little to show for it.
You know how I said 3 races this weekend so lots to gain and lose. I guess I'm kinda somewhere in the middle but mostly it was a loss.
Bad qualifying with traffic, bit annoying as my GPS laptime on dash said it was good for pole but my transponder said 3rd??
First race wasn't terrible just couldn't make progress forward. Pretty much followed eachother round, Matt in the lead did a good job and it was impossible to push forward as the dirty air just washed my car out from the two in front. Every lap I gained on them then lost them in the same place.
Came home in third but importantly beat my two championship rivals. Got fastest lap which gave me pole for this morning's race.
I have a pretty good wet setup and was looking forward to it but my clutch cable failed on the first lap. DNF.
Third race starting way back because fastest lap of previous race sets grid and I didn't even complete a lap.
Carnage on opening laps, lots of questionable driving at the back to be honest so just tried to stay out of trouble then work forward, at which point my gear selection problems came back. I couldn't even get gears and set the 3rd fastest lap... just shows what could've been.
Feeling very dejected at the moment. It's one thing having a good battle and being beaten but to be fast and not finish or have technical issues is really not good. I've had more reliability issues this season than all my others put together and without taking anything away from the other competitors this is the main thing keeping the championship open. Very frustrating and it's not for lack of effort or time put in.
Now all going down to the wire at Silverstone GP end of October, not entirely sure what my lead has diminished to now.. need to work it out.
t weekend I've had. I'm exhausted and got very little to show for it. You know how I said 3 races this weekend so lots to gain and lose. I guess I'm kinda somewhere in the middle but mostly it was a loss.
Bad qualifying with traffic, bit annoying as my GPS laptime on dash said it was good for pole but my transponder said 3rd??
First race wasn't terrible just couldn't make progress forward. Pretty much followed eachother round, Matt in the lead did a good job and it was impossible to push forward as the dirty air just washed my car out from the two in front. Every lap I gained on them then lost them in the same place.
Came home in third but importantly beat my two championship rivals. Got fastest lap which gave me pole for this morning's race.
I have a pretty good wet setup and was looking forward to it but my clutch cable failed on the first lap. DNF.
Third race starting way back because fastest lap of previous race sets grid and I didn't even complete a lap.
Carnage on opening laps, lots of questionable driving at the back to be honest so just tried to stay out of trouble then work forward, at which point my gear selection problems came back. I couldn't even get gears and set the 3rd fastest lap... just shows what could've been.
Feeling very dejected at the moment. It's one thing having a good battle and being beaten but to be fast and not finish or have technical issues is really not good. I've had more reliability issues this season than all my others put together and without taking anything away from the other competitors this is the main thing keeping the championship open. Very frustrating and it's not for lack of effort or time put in.
Now all going down to the wire at Silverstone GP end of October, not entirely sure what my lead has diminished to now.. need to work it out.
RiknRoll said:
Hi Yazza,
Funny thing this post - I've been researching a bit into a few different formulas, including S1000 - I literally log into Pistonheads wondering if anyone is talking about it, and lo and behold yours is one of the first! I've had a good skim through so far (I'll read in more depth when it's not 3am!).
But I can't hold back my questions so long for that - Wanted to ask a few specific ones:
I notice you changed cars along the way since you started (I'm not quite sure if that's once or twice now?). I sort of expected cars to be very even so it surprises me a bit to see someone changing cars. How much difference do the latest cars make compared to older ones, and what would you say are the better models to look out for? Are there significant price differences in used cars as such?
Secondly overall how have you found reliability to be, for yourself and the grid as a whole in both engines and other componentry?
Thirdly (of course I understand totally if you rather not answer this, or rather not openly on the forum and rather via pm), but how much in maintenance do they take to run generally, and what sort of cost might those jobs create? Any specific jobs or components you'd take note of? I have a reasonable idea of some of the main costs of racing in S1000, but general maintenance and components is a very difficult factor to take account of. Likewise crash damages are something I'm wary of.
Really appreciate any insights you might be able to give - fwiw I race Vee also in 750mc, in fact I own with your fellow competitor Paul Smith's ex-Vee (which unfortunately has seen better days), but have been having a torrid time of it the last couple of years and am starting to very seriously look around at alternatives. I've been speaking a bit with Mittell so far, but I'd love some neutral insights and real world experiences from a current driver such as yourself!
Have a good race at Anglesey this weekend - unfortunately I'm not racing it myself, otherwise i would come to find you and say hi in person! (combination of difficulty in travelling, budget, and the fact my engine is once more in bits... )
Huge thanks, and great thread!
I'm no good at splitting quotes up so.. Funny thing this post - I've been researching a bit into a few different formulas, including S1000 - I literally log into Pistonheads wondering if anyone is talking about it, and lo and behold yours is one of the first! I've had a good skim through so far (I'll read in more depth when it's not 3am!).
But I can't hold back my questions so long for that - Wanted to ask a few specific ones:
I notice you changed cars along the way since you started (I'm not quite sure if that's once or twice now?). I sort of expected cars to be very even so it surprises me a bit to see someone changing cars. How much difference do the latest cars make compared to older ones, and what would you say are the better models to look out for? Are there significant price differences in used cars as such?
Secondly overall how have you found reliability to be, for yourself and the grid as a whole in both engines and other componentry?
Thirdly (of course I understand totally if you rather not answer this, or rather not openly on the forum and rather via pm), but how much in maintenance do they take to run generally, and what sort of cost might those jobs create? Any specific jobs or components you'd take note of? I have a reasonable idea of some of the main costs of racing in S1000, but general maintenance and components is a very difficult factor to take account of. Likewise crash damages are something I'm wary of.
Really appreciate any insights you might be able to give - fwiw I race Vee also in 750mc, in fact I own with your fellow competitor Paul Smith's ex-Vee (which unfortunately has seen better days), but have been having a torrid time of it the last couple of years and am starting to very seriously look around at alternatives. I've been speaking a bit with Mittell so far, but I'd love some neutral insights and real world experiences from a current driver such as yourself!
Have a good race at Anglesey this weekend - unfortunately I'm not racing it myself, otherwise i would come to find you and say hi in person! (combination of difficulty in travelling, budget, and the fact my engine is once more in bits...
) Huge thanks, and great thread!
Edited by RiknRoll on Saturday 16th September 02:50
1. Cars - it depends what you want / expect from your racing. The older cars can be picked up for around 15k and are still fast, but are a bit more draggy aero wise than the newer cars. All the spires and mittells from 2016 onwards have lower drag/lower frontal area and are faster in a straight line but other than that, not much different. A good driver in a well setup older car can still be hard to beat but naturally the best drivers want the best cars. I bought my old car very cheap as an entry into the formula and when I got the bug and confirmed to myself I still had the skills to be at the front I made the jump early.
2. Reliability - honestly very good. I have had a number of issues this year but all stupid stuff. A clutch cable broke, a freyed wire on cam sensor, and an exhaust cracked... this can happen on any racing car.
3. Maintenance is pretty basic, checking for play in joints etc. One chain per season. Engine rebuild every two seasons, new throttle and clutch cables etc, most parts are cheap enough and everything on the car is easy to get at. Best to life a lot of the consumable parts like cables etc than wait for them to fail.
Yazza54 said:
I'm no good at splitting quotes up so..
1. Cars - it depends what you want / expect from your racing. The older cars can be picked up for around 15k and are still fast, but are a bit more draggy aero wise than the newer cars. All the spires and mittells from 2016 onwards have lower drag/lower frontal area and are faster in a straight line but other than that, not much different. A good driver in a well setup older car can still be hard to beat but naturally the best drivers want the best cars. I bought my old car very cheap as an entry into the formula and when I got the bug and confirmed to myself I still had the skills to be at the front I made the jump early.
2. Reliability - honestly very good. I have had a number of issues this year but all stupid stuff. A clutch cable broke, a freyed wire on cam sensor, and an exhaust cracked... this can happen on any racing car.
3. Maintenance is pretty basic, checking for play in joints etc. One chain per season. Engine rebuild every two seasons, new throttle and clutch cables etc, most parts are cheap enough and everything on the car is easy to get at. Best to life a lot of the consumable parts like cables etc than wait for them to fail.
Honestly that's really useful thank you - as it helps add onto what I'm being told in my discussions so far. S1000 seems to be really good value to run, the the question of cars is a big one still to me. One of the issue's I'm having in Vee right now is simply I have an older engine and suffer a bit for straight line speed compared with many of the updated engines out there (it's a developmental formula and does move on from year to year).1. Cars - it depends what you want / expect from your racing. The older cars can be picked up for around 15k and are still fast, but are a bit more draggy aero wise than the newer cars. All the spires and mittells from 2016 onwards have lower drag/lower frontal area and are faster in a straight line but other than that, not much different. A good driver in a well setup older car can still be hard to beat but naturally the best drivers want the best cars. I bought my old car very cheap as an entry into the formula and when I got the bug and confirmed to myself I still had the skills to be at the front I made the jump early.
2. Reliability - honestly very good. I have had a number of issues this year but all stupid stuff. A clutch cable broke, a freyed wire on cam sensor, and an exhaust cracked... this can happen on any racing car.
3. Maintenance is pretty basic, checking for play in joints etc. One chain per season. Engine rebuild every two seasons, new throttle and clutch cables etc, most parts are cheap enough and everything on the car is easy to get at. Best to life a lot of the consumable parts like cables etc than wait for them to fail.
Reliability - yeah i likewise know very well how small niggling "stupid stuff" affects. But as you say that's how race cars are, and likewise I'm rather glad to hear it is this stuff generally and not the engines/gearboxes which generally are the "expensive" bits. Oh to count the number of times i've limped through a race with braking/suspension/engine/gearbox issues stopping me having achieved full potential....!!
Likewise for maintenance sounds relatively simple, which is great. I guess there is some cost in life-ing components, but by the sounds of it, in racing terms, quite a limited cost.
I have to admit it really does sound quite appealing. Lot of thinking to do. I may well be around at Silverstone on 27/29th as I'm looking at giving the ma7da a go as an experiment (they are apparently really cheap - and I've really had half of a half season this year due to reliability, and am itchy enough that I can't wait until Spring to race again!) but in the long term that may feel like a step down from Vee in some ways rather than up - whereas S1000 is a whole jump in pace. Alas, if I am there in Oct I'll for sure wander into the S1000 paddock and try to chat to a few more drivers etc.
Thanks for your response and hopefully see you in paddock!
Edited by RiknRoll on Tuesday 19th September 20:40
S1000 is a development formula too, but it's heavily controlled. Engines are not an issue as they're all much of a muchness. You can make your own suspension and aero mods within the comprehensive regulations but ultimately the cars are very well designed as standard and what tends to happen is you're constantly robbing Peter to pay Paul. Want less drag? Sure, you'll lose some downforce though. Want more mechanical grip? You'll probably compromise your high speed stability. And so on.
They are very interesting cars to try and get the most out of, because fundamentally they are a little under tyred and running higher ride height and less aero than your typical sports prototype, but that's what makes them affordable and tricky but rewarding to drive on the limit.
A good driver can, have and will still be able to podium an older shape car. The driver makes the biggest difference along with the drivers feedback or own setup ability. That's probably something that you can relate to with fvee.
I'll see you at Silverstone if you're there on the Sunday. I'm not testing as the birkett is in the middle of the weekend plus the test will be super expensive. I've also come to realise that I need to stop beating on the car on Friday and wearing it out for the race day/s!
They are very interesting cars to try and get the most out of, because fundamentally they are a little under tyred and running higher ride height and less aero than your typical sports prototype, but that's what makes them affordable and tricky but rewarding to drive on the limit.
A good driver can, have and will still be able to podium an older shape car. The driver makes the biggest difference along with the drivers feedback or own setup ability. That's probably something that you can relate to with fvee.
I'll see you at Silverstone if you're there on the Sunday. I'm not testing as the birkett is in the middle of the weekend plus the test will be super expensive. I've also come to realise that I need to stop beating on the car on Friday and wearing it out for the race day/s!
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 20th September 00:15
F1natic said:
Racing is a cruel mistress, looking forward to seeing you overcome the reliability setbacks and getting back to smashing it 
.
Cheers. Here's a video of what it's like further down the grid... pretty scary stuff when you're in my position desperately trying to stay out of trouble and bag whatever points I could. The ideal thing would've been a much better start to catapult me away from the carnage but alas the opposite happened, couldn't get any traction. Either way, the gearshift issues would've halted any further progress anyway.
Our rules used to be that second race grid was based on second fastest quali time and so on. It was changed to help people qualify for race 2 if they had issues in qualifying but ultimately the current format also punishes you if you have issues in the race. There's no such thing as perfect when it comes to regs and points formats etc, but DNFing from pole on the first lap in the previous race basically double f
ked me by putting me back there for the next race. https://youtu.be/m-fS4so804c?feature=shared
AWRacing said:
Out of interest why couldnt you carry on with the broken clutch cable?
Assuming rev matching is slightly harder on a bike engine for down shifts then in a car. I only ask as i had a clutch fail in a race once but managed to continue - was a car engined car though.
Doesn't like going down the box clutch less. Especially not for a full race and not at any kind of pace. I tried as I was coming back in and it was having none of it. There's also the aspect of potentially blowing a gearbox up with another race that afternoon..Assuming rev matching is slightly harder on a bike engine for down shifts then in a car. I only ask as i had a clutch fail in a race once but managed to continue - was a car engined car though.
You really work the box hard in these cars, constantly up and down the gears at pace. I'd have either broken something or had someone go up my arse.
Edited by Yazza54 on Wednesday 20th September 09:55
Ills said:
Just watching a couple of your videos on YouTube, are you using a bike handle bar as a gearstick? Or does the brake lever looking thing serve a purpose?
For the regs we have to have a "hand brake" that's what that is. It's literally a bike lever with a cable to the back of the pedal that I never use. Hence why you see it moving when I press the brake pedal. Gassing Station | UK Club Motorsport | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff