AUDI TTCR (TT Cup Racing)
Discussion
Looks great fun OP. Enjoy. To get a fully spec car for the price isn’t too bad either. I found a vid of I assume the same test day at brands on YouTube (a green and a silver car).
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pIY2oIWoD20
54s round the Indy is fairly nippy too. Back in the day when I raced a golf a 59 was the target.
Where too next?
Keep us posted.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=pIY2oIWoD20
54s round the Indy is fairly nippy too. Back in the day when I raced a golf a 59 was the target.
Where too next?
Keep us posted.
Thanks for the write up and continued updates.
Looks like a fun car, and pretty rapid for the power to be in the 54s too.
Without trying to sound cynical, it'll be interesting to see if there are "cheater teams" that rise to the top for inexplicable reasons that are hard to pinpoint.
Already interesting to see the two grill designs, and badge positions, and wonder whether there are cooling and cold intake advantages.
Looks like a fun car, and pretty rapid for the power to be in the 54s too.
Without trying to sound cynical, it'll be interesting to see if there are "cheater teams" that rise to the top for inexplicable reasons that are hard to pinpoint.
Already interesting to see the two grill designs, and badge positions, and wonder whether there are cooling and cold intake advantages.
This might be right up my street.
I'm looking at starting racing for next season. I really wanted to go for a car with a sequential gearbox as I properly damaged my right knee mountain biking and It hurts to heel and toe now.
Are teams providing support packages for these cars now?
How many are DSG ?
Why this and not a Ginetta ? I know the Ginetta is more money but it's not hard to sell them on...
I don't have much experience in Front Wheel Drive and I'm worried about being a mobile obstruction!
I'm looking at starting racing for next season. I really wanted to go for a car with a sequential gearbox as I properly damaged my right knee mountain biking and It hurts to heel and toe now.
Are teams providing support packages for these cars now?
How many are DSG ?
Why this and not a Ginetta ? I know the Ginetta is more money but it's not hard to sell them on...
I don't have much experience in Front Wheel Drive and I'm worried about being a mobile obstruction!
PorscheGirl said:
This might be right up my street.
I'm looking at starting racing for next season. I really wanted to go for a car with a sequential gearbox as I properly damaged my right knee mountain biking and It hurts to heel and toe now.
Are teams providing support packages for these cars now?
How many are DSG ?
Why this and not a Ginetta ? I know the Ginetta is more money but it's not hard to sell them on...
I don't have much experience in Front Wheel Drive and I'm worried about being a mobile obstruction!
Maybe one of the teams running these cars would offer an “arrive and drive” at a track day, with an instructor?I'm looking at starting racing for next season. I really wanted to go for a car with a sequential gearbox as I properly damaged my right knee mountain biking and It hurts to heel and toe now.
Are teams providing support packages for these cars now?
How many are DSG ?
Why this and not a Ginetta ? I know the Ginetta is more money but it's not hard to sell them on...
I don't have much experience in Front Wheel Drive and I'm worried about being a mobile obstruction!
Good stuff, come over and say hi.
We had a very eventful race weekend at Snetterton a couple of weeks ago, we did not have a good time at all. Somehow managed to finish all 3 races, but in terms of results it was an absolute shocker. And the car didn't look too pretty by the end of it either.
So I'm hoping for a quieter weekend at Donington Park tomorrow!
We had a very eventful race weekend at Snetterton a couple of weeks ago, we did not have a good time at all. Somehow managed to finish all 3 races, but in terms of results it was an absolute shocker. And the car didn't look too pretty by the end of it either.
So I'm hoping for a quieter weekend at Donington Park tomorrow!
I've been following the series for a little while and got to have a chat with the lovely Garage 23 guys at Donny,
The racing looks great, very close and looks pretty well mannered too.
There does seem to be a bit of attrition in the field during a race but this is the first season and the formula is based on what is now an old road car. So a lot of the road car components could be approaching the end of a key life. Racing will only accelerate the degradation. The build kits could have priced in a lot of upgraded ancillary parts (like racing fuel lines, loom, cooling system etc) or could have included new connectors a brackets which are all old on these cars. BUT the build kits would have been at a very different price point. I'd be interested to see a list of all the mechanical / electrical failures that have occurred during racing and testing so far.
I imagine that a lot of the teething issues will be dealt with by the start of next season. I have to say, If decide to 'get in' then I would want RS29 brake pads on my car and definitely DSG.
It looks like a great formula and will only be better next year.
The racing looks great, very close and looks pretty well mannered too.
There does seem to be a bit of attrition in the field during a race but this is the first season and the formula is based on what is now an old road car. So a lot of the road car components could be approaching the end of a key life. Racing will only accelerate the degradation. The build kits could have priced in a lot of upgraded ancillary parts (like racing fuel lines, loom, cooling system etc) or could have included new connectors a brackets which are all old on these cars. BUT the build kits would have been at a very different price point. I'd be interested to see a list of all the mechanical / electrical failures that have occurred during racing and testing so far.
I imagine that a lot of the teething issues will be dealt with by the start of next season. I have to say, If decide to 'get in' then I would want RS29 brake pads on my car and definitely DSG.
It looks like a great formula and will only be better next year.
MID-SEASON UPDATE
I haven't posted many updates on our Audi TT Cup Racing season so far. Mostly because time gets away from you. But also possibly due to lack of exciting updates to share! We're midway through the season and haven't scored any podiums or wins yet. But having some good fun, and very much enjoying the car. The turnouts for meetings have been good. Driving standards have been decent. I'll try to give an honest and open update of how our year is going, given its a brand new series and a few people have asked me whether I'd recommend it for them to try next year.
BRANDS HATCH
We had a good opening round at our home circuit. Having had wet rainy conditions in pretty much every single one of our pre-season test-days / track-days; we had unfortunately had no dry running time to learn the car and test the setup. Unfortunately we found out the hard way that we had the setup wrong. Only a few tenths off the pace in Qualifying, but the car was clearly set up to understeer in the dry and we couldnt get a clean lap out of it. We finished our races in the top10 out of 15-20 cars in both races. But it was a disappointment, given how well we know the track - we believed we should have had the pace to compete for a podium in those opening 2 races - especially before the bigger teams had all begun getting to grips with the new cars as the season progressed. There was some great close racing throughout the field, and we managed a few good overtakes. Definitely not very much overtaking going on in general though, but as a result the driving standards were good with very little contact and certainly not a general air of 'rubbing is racing', which was a relief.
SNETTERTON
A shocker of a weekend for us, in many ways. I was rear-ended in stationary traffic on the way to the circuit, doing serious damage to the trailer. Then I got disqualified from Qualifying [plus a further 10 second grid penalty] for failing the minimum weight by a few kgs (a rooky error by me under-fuelling the car - although very harshly penalised given its a brand new series / and compared with the extremely relaxed approach being taken to other regs such as people failing the ride height checks but being let off). We had a good Race1 making our way back into the pack despite the penalty at the start. Then I got rear-ended for the second time that weekend, and spun off track in Race2 and finished last as a result. Race3 started really well and made my way back into the pack again, then had further contact (this time mostly my own fault) giving us some more paint work to sort out and again finished towards the back of the field. Shocker of a weekend really, car bruised, and ego not much better. But its all part of racing! And plenty of lessons learned.
DONINGTON
Lovely circuit with lots of very close racing. The guys at the front of the field have now really got to grips with the cars and it shows. The fastest cars are now noticeably faster than the second half of the field. Testing starting to come into play, and setup clearly now playing much more of a part. The cars were fast at Donny and suited the circuit - lots of the teams are pretty local to there, and there was some great racing. We had a pretty quiet weekend, finished our races kind of where we expected to given it was only our second visit to the track and we didn't do any testing. Couple more new cars have joined at each meeting so far, so there's a few different cars/faces at each race weekend which is nice. Clearly there is at least 30 of these cars built and running now. It was a very healthy entry for this meeting.
KNOCKHILL
We skipped this round as we'd raced at Knockhill last season in the Fiestas, and although it was a cracking circuit to visit - the drive was a 22hour round trip for us and we didn't want to do it two years running. We opted to enter the Audi into a different series at Brands Hatch that month instead, and raced on the Super Touring Power weekend with all the old classic touring cars. They still had a reasonable turnout at Knockhill though sharing the weekend with TCR UK, and watching on the livestream it looked like there were some awesome battles going on. A big weekend for Richard Forber who took his first two wins of the season after a cracking weekend - and David Robb who had some awesome pace at his home circuit and with a bit more luck would have been troubling the podium.
BRANDS HATCH
We entered our Audi into 'Thunder Saloons' on the Super Touring Power weekend, and found ourselves racing with pretty much the entire contingent of Classic Jaguars! On our control semi-slick Nankang tyres we were no match for the rest of the field of Thunder Saloons but found ourselves very well matched in pace to the field of Jags. We had a couple of cracking races playing tag (not literally) with several of the Jaguars - and I was relieved to hear after the races that we didn't impact their own in-house battles and they were perfectly happy to race with me for track position. We've finally nailed the setup on the Audi, took us a while but we're now really happy with how it handles on a dry track. New personal best time for Brands Indy too. The Audi will go SO much faster on slicks, although its been suggested that Yoko A052's are the best way to go; 'Darkside Developments' apparently ran their Audi 5 seconds a lap quicker on those tyres.
GOODWOOD
We took our TT for a mid-season jaunt to Goodwood for the Eagle Sprint last weekend. Managed a pretty reasonable time in the absolutely abysmal monsoon-like wet conditions. We took away a little trophy for 3rd in class, and had a very nice time meeting some people from the BHMC. The Audi felt very at home on the track, and it made me think the car would be pretty well suited to Sprint racing - especially with some better tyres. These Audis are having some good success racing in other series, such as Clubsport Trophy... another good plus point if you're considering taking the plunge and buying/building your own car; it is proving itself to be a good choice for mixed-badge races too.
CADWELL PARK
This coming weekend will see the Audi TTCR Series head to Cadwell Park, a lot of people's favourite circuit on the calendar. Again, we will not be benefitting from testing whereas a number of teams will be there on Friday (and in some cases I believe also Thursday) for testing. So there'll be no prizes for guessing which cars will be on the podium! (Sour grapes from the pauper who can't afford to go testing!!). Looking forward to driving the car at this fantastic track, but again, not expecting to trouble the teams who are now routinely taking the top 6 places at each race.
CROFT + SNETTERTON
The last remaining race meetings for Audi TTCR after Cadwell Park. We will definitely be at the final round at Snetterton, but may perhaps swap Croft for yet another different race series weekend at Brands Hatch instead.
It is a good race series. I like the car a lot. The cars are quick and handle well. The competition is pretty fierce; there is no doubting this is very competitive racing. The front running cars are being pedalled by very good drivers, most of whom have very solid experience and some of them pretty impressive CV's in single-make racing. They also have team support; including running the cars and doing ample testing for every round. Realistically this is a necessity if you want to be competitive (I appreciate that is not news to anyone!).
If you want a series that can compete with Civic Cup or Fiesta Championship, then this is a good option. Driving standards are good, costs thus far have been fairly manageable. But the cars cost way north of the £15k originally pitched... you're really talking minimum £20k for a car with all the necessary parts, if not a little more - the freshly-built grey car for sale now at £19,200 represents good value.
Am I enjoying it, yes. Would I recommend the series? Ask me at the end of the season, I'm not sure yet. If you can afford to be run by a team, then definitely yes I would recommend it. If you're considering running yourself all year, ask me again at the end of the season.
I haven't posted many updates on our Audi TT Cup Racing season so far. Mostly because time gets away from you. But also possibly due to lack of exciting updates to share! We're midway through the season and haven't scored any podiums or wins yet. But having some good fun, and very much enjoying the car. The turnouts for meetings have been good. Driving standards have been decent. I'll try to give an honest and open update of how our year is going, given its a brand new series and a few people have asked me whether I'd recommend it for them to try next year.
BRANDS HATCH
We had a good opening round at our home circuit. Having had wet rainy conditions in pretty much every single one of our pre-season test-days / track-days; we had unfortunately had no dry running time to learn the car and test the setup. Unfortunately we found out the hard way that we had the setup wrong. Only a few tenths off the pace in Qualifying, but the car was clearly set up to understeer in the dry and we couldnt get a clean lap out of it. We finished our races in the top10 out of 15-20 cars in both races. But it was a disappointment, given how well we know the track - we believed we should have had the pace to compete for a podium in those opening 2 races - especially before the bigger teams had all begun getting to grips with the new cars as the season progressed. There was some great close racing throughout the field, and we managed a few good overtakes. Definitely not very much overtaking going on in general though, but as a result the driving standards were good with very little contact and certainly not a general air of 'rubbing is racing', which was a relief.
SNETTERTON
A shocker of a weekend for us, in many ways. I was rear-ended in stationary traffic on the way to the circuit, doing serious damage to the trailer. Then I got disqualified from Qualifying [plus a further 10 second grid penalty] for failing the minimum weight by a few kgs (a rooky error by me under-fuelling the car - although very harshly penalised given its a brand new series / and compared with the extremely relaxed approach being taken to other regs such as people failing the ride height checks but being let off). We had a good Race1 making our way back into the pack despite the penalty at the start. Then I got rear-ended for the second time that weekend, and spun off track in Race2 and finished last as a result. Race3 started really well and made my way back into the pack again, then had further contact (this time mostly my own fault) giving us some more paint work to sort out and again finished towards the back of the field. Shocker of a weekend really, car bruised, and ego not much better. But its all part of racing! And plenty of lessons learned.
DONINGTON
Lovely circuit with lots of very close racing. The guys at the front of the field have now really got to grips with the cars and it shows. The fastest cars are now noticeably faster than the second half of the field. Testing starting to come into play, and setup clearly now playing much more of a part. The cars were fast at Donny and suited the circuit - lots of the teams are pretty local to there, and there was some great racing. We had a pretty quiet weekend, finished our races kind of where we expected to given it was only our second visit to the track and we didn't do any testing. Couple more new cars have joined at each meeting so far, so there's a few different cars/faces at each race weekend which is nice. Clearly there is at least 30 of these cars built and running now. It was a very healthy entry for this meeting.
KNOCKHILL
We skipped this round as we'd raced at Knockhill last season in the Fiestas, and although it was a cracking circuit to visit - the drive was a 22hour round trip for us and we didn't want to do it two years running. We opted to enter the Audi into a different series at Brands Hatch that month instead, and raced on the Super Touring Power weekend with all the old classic touring cars. They still had a reasonable turnout at Knockhill though sharing the weekend with TCR UK, and watching on the livestream it looked like there were some awesome battles going on. A big weekend for Richard Forber who took his first two wins of the season after a cracking weekend - and David Robb who had some awesome pace at his home circuit and with a bit more luck would have been troubling the podium.
BRANDS HATCH
We entered our Audi into 'Thunder Saloons' on the Super Touring Power weekend, and found ourselves racing with pretty much the entire contingent of Classic Jaguars! On our control semi-slick Nankang tyres we were no match for the rest of the field of Thunder Saloons but found ourselves very well matched in pace to the field of Jags. We had a couple of cracking races playing tag (not literally) with several of the Jaguars - and I was relieved to hear after the races that we didn't impact their own in-house battles and they were perfectly happy to race with me for track position. We've finally nailed the setup on the Audi, took us a while but we're now really happy with how it handles on a dry track. New personal best time for Brands Indy too. The Audi will go SO much faster on slicks, although its been suggested that Yoko A052's are the best way to go; 'Darkside Developments' apparently ran their Audi 5 seconds a lap quicker on those tyres.
GOODWOOD
We took our TT for a mid-season jaunt to Goodwood for the Eagle Sprint last weekend. Managed a pretty reasonable time in the absolutely abysmal monsoon-like wet conditions. We took away a little trophy for 3rd in class, and had a very nice time meeting some people from the BHMC. The Audi felt very at home on the track, and it made me think the car would be pretty well suited to Sprint racing - especially with some better tyres. These Audis are having some good success racing in other series, such as Clubsport Trophy... another good plus point if you're considering taking the plunge and buying/building your own car; it is proving itself to be a good choice for mixed-badge races too.
CADWELL PARK
This coming weekend will see the Audi TTCR Series head to Cadwell Park, a lot of people's favourite circuit on the calendar. Again, we will not be benefitting from testing whereas a number of teams will be there on Friday (and in some cases I believe also Thursday) for testing. So there'll be no prizes for guessing which cars will be on the podium! (Sour grapes from the pauper who can't afford to go testing!!). Looking forward to driving the car at this fantastic track, but again, not expecting to trouble the teams who are now routinely taking the top 6 places at each race.
CROFT + SNETTERTON
The last remaining race meetings for Audi TTCR after Cadwell Park. We will definitely be at the final round at Snetterton, but may perhaps swap Croft for yet another different race series weekend at Brands Hatch instead.
It is a good race series. I like the car a lot. The cars are quick and handle well. The competition is pretty fierce; there is no doubting this is very competitive racing. The front running cars are being pedalled by very good drivers, most of whom have very solid experience and some of them pretty impressive CV's in single-make racing. They also have team support; including running the cars and doing ample testing for every round. Realistically this is a necessity if you want to be competitive (I appreciate that is not news to anyone!).
If you want a series that can compete with Civic Cup or Fiesta Championship, then this is a good option. Driving standards are good, costs thus far have been fairly manageable. But the cars cost way north of the £15k originally pitched... you're really talking minimum £20k for a car with all the necessary parts, if not a little more - the freshly-built grey car for sale now at £19,200 represents good value.
Am I enjoying it, yes. Would I recommend the series? Ask me at the end of the season, I'm not sure yet. If you can afford to be run by a team, then definitely yes I would recommend it. If you're considering running yourself all year, ask me again at the end of the season.
Edited by SparrowHawk on Monday 7th August 23:52
Great summary of how you’re getting on with TTCR so far. It’s really interesting to follow how the series is getting on, it can probably be considered a success already with so many cars built and healthy grids in its first year. The BRSCC seem to be knocking it out the park at the moment, not to mention probably the best live coverage of any club racing around. I wonder how the series will develop, it seems a lot less frenetic than the likes of Civic Cup or ST240s currently but maybe that’ll change as it matures. Although a £20k build cost will probably discourage too much bumper cars! A bit of a shame that’s where the entry point has ended up, and also a shame to hear of the inconsistency in penalties as that’s a real bugbear- either we’re going club racing for fun and a bit of leniency can be observed, or we’re running a s
t hot tightly regulated championship, in which case an infraction is an infraction and all need to be penalised- you shouldn’t have both. (Our series has been going through something similar)
I was in the big diesel locomotive for Super Touring power-
It was great fun racing with you- what a mental grid that was! I was impressed how the TT went. This may be of interest: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qS9TS2F-ZeQ&pp=y...
t hot tightly regulated championship, in which case an infraction is an infraction and all need to be penalised- you shouldn’t have both. (Our series has been going through something similar)I was in the big diesel locomotive for Super Touring power-
It was great fun racing with you- what a mental grid that was! I was impressed how the TT went. This may be of interest: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=qS9TS2F-ZeQ&pp=y...
END OF SEASON UPDATE
So that's a wrap for 2023. The first ever season of BRSCC Audi TT Cup Racing can surely only be seen as a success? All brand new race series' have the same worry... what if no one shows up??? Well, I can give a first hand account that this series had excellent grids for its first year of racing and is clearly set to have even bigger grids next year. We had over 20 cars at the final round at Snetterton. I'll be shocked if there aren't 25+ cars on the grid for the opening round in 2024.
Will we be joining them next season? No.
The series has clearly got a lot of people interested, and there are plenty of racers considering TTCR as an option for 2024. I've had loads of people ask me my thoughts on the series, both on social media and at the tracks. So I'll try to answer some of those questions honestly and (unlike me) succinctly, as an extra bit of info for anyone considering TTCR for next year.
Are the cars any good?
Yes. They're fun to drive, they have some interesting characteristics, you are not simply holding your foot flat all the way round the circuit you do have to drive them. The biggest limiting factor all year has been the tyre, and they are now switching from the NS2R to a Direzza next season which will clearly make a big difference to how the car feels and how quick it goes. The cars have proven fairly reliable - ours didn't fail us all season and was 100%. But there were a fair number of engine failures across the year for other teams. I am not the right person to go into any detail on that, but I would say that most people have got by fairly well by simply pulling out engines and swapping in a new donor engine when things go wrong. There don't appear to be many other weak points / regular technical failures on the car (other than many drivers constantly complaining about brake issues and braking-related issues) but I personally have found the new EBC brake upgrade kit to be excellent. The Cartek electronic isolator is clearly also a frequent source of issues and a much maligned part among the drivers! The cars have also proven themselves super competitive on other grids. A few of the guys have raced very successfully in Clubsport this year. The TT's sit quite nicely in a couple other classes and look like a great choice of all-rounder race car. Another really good reason to go for it!
Whats with the DSG / Manual mix of cars, isn't single-make racing supposed to be identical cars?
I don't understand this either, its really puzzled me. But my advice is do not run a DSG car. My car is a manual, so I'm not best placed to give advice on anything specific to do with the DSG cars. But I am privvy to all of the conversations that happen between TTCR teams / drivers... and I'm saying do not run a DSG car.
Would you recommend trying TTCR in 2024?
This depends. Its only my opinion, and I'm far from an 'experienced racer', so there are lots of people on the TTCR grid this year who's opinion I'd listen to wayyy before mine. But for those who've asked me; YES I would recommend it IF you're going to be run by a team. If you're already a 'proper team', running a car or being run in another single-make series, then yes I'd definitely recommend TTCR it has everything that the other big single-make series have and its going to get bigger next year - go for it! BUT if you're planning to build your own car, chuck it on a trailer, and rock up to the races on your own or with your Dad (like I did) then I cannot honestly say that I'd recommend it. I just think that its not the series it looked like before it started (in my view). This may be purely down to my naivety and lack of single-make racing experience - but I thought all the cars would be identical in performance and that even the less experienced / well-prepared drivers could rock up and have a good go. But my steep learning curve this season has told me that's simply not the case. The same 4, 5, 6 drivers occupied the top 4, 5, 6 positions at every race. The front half of the grid are faster drivers, for sure. But they are also quite simply in faster cars, as well. I'm not saying that there's any mischief going on, I mean that the front running cars are simply prepared to a much higher standard, have really experienced people making the decisions and running the cars, and that the multitude of marginal gains they achieve across a race weekend add up to a huge margin by the time you get on track. If you're a one-man band or a very small outfit racing purely for fun - you'll have to go into this series totally cool with being outside the top-10 at every single race. For some people that's absolutely fine; but its hard to justify spending £20-30K a season to do that, it's just not enough fun - and there isn't a class system to give you something else to aim for (unless your an older driver in which case you can battle for the silver fox award). It may be that this is the same in any single-make series, and what I'm saying sounds really obvious to people who have raced in MX5's or CityCup etc. But it was news to me this year, and is the main reason why I am not racing in TTCR next season, so I thought worth sharing in case its useful for anyone else to hear as they contemplate the series for themselves. I should caveat what I've said, by mentioning that there were other 'small' teams running on a tight budget with limited personel who DID manage to mix it near the front at times - and its perfectly possible that a sh*t hot driver may be able to simply jump into one of these cars and be competitive. Its just my personal conclusion that you'll need to be run by a proper team to have a proper go.
Why don't you just take what you've learned and apply it in TTCR next season in 2024?
Budget. I can't afford to join one of the teams and have my car run for me, and learn how to do it properly - I'd need much deeper pockets for that. To be a front runner in this series you'll need to go testing every round, and I'm not able to extend my race weekends to Thursday-Sunday, its sadly not feasible. Its also other aspects of budget too - the cars continued to get more expensive as the 2023 season went on, with a multitude of parts becoming necessary and some mandatory - this will inevitably continue with further costs such as new turbos etc likely to crop up. There's also the tyre issue; my personal view (which I kept to myself during the almost relentless tyre discussions throughout the year) was that the NS2R tyre was fine - its cheap and cheerful and it makes sense for the tyre to be the limiting factor in the cars - everyone's in the same boat - and the car remains unstressed instead of upgrading the tyre and then making the gearbox or driveshafts or something else the weak point. But the consensus was the cars needed better (and much more expensive) tyres. So the tyre budget for next season will go from circa £800 to around £3000 (just my estimate based on whats been said). In short, I don't think TTCR is the entry-level single make series it was pitched as. Its not for new racers, and its not for tiny teams. Its a new direct competitor to the Civic Cup, and in my view it serves almost exactly the same audience. I'm sad about that, because I thought it was intentionally conceived for and aimed at a distinct bracket below that, but it my experience that's just not the case. If that's what you're looking for then a much better choice would be the BRSCC ST150 Challenge or something else.
What did it cost?
£30,000. That's a lot of money for an entry level series. The car turned out to cost a good deal more to build than was advertised. And there were a few expenses that cropped up along the season. But thats what it cost me to race this season, from first getting the car all the way through to racing at the final round. Obviously costs vary hugely depending on teams and circumstances, others may have been able to do it cheaper than me? But I may as well be honest and share my own experience as a loosely useful guide to others in my position. If you are dreaming of building a TTCR car yourself and racing next season on a really carefully worked out budget of 20K forget it - its only going to get more expensive next year. God knows what they guys who bought their cars and then did arrive'n'drive spent this year... not entry level money!
I have a few other gripes about the series and the way its been run which have helped my decision not to race in it next season. But I think those are possibly personal to me specifically and not necessarily reflective of this season as a whole for the TTCR - so best kept to myself rather than shared in a public forum; others may have had much more positive experiences or views of certain things than me. I would say that the consensus in the paddock and drivers groups seems to be generally very positive.
So in conclusion, I think TTCR is a cracking addition to our beloved sport. Its going to be a support series for TCR next season which can only be a good thing for the series' popularity and exposure (if not a good thing for the costs). The cars are good, and the paddock is really good - full of friendly helpful people who are there to have fun and not to get their elbows out. The future looks bright. But that gap in the market that I thought TTCR had arrived to fill is sadly still open.
We'll be watching the races next year, and probably kicking ourselves for not being involved. It will be a great series to watch, and an excellent addition to the TCR package.
So that's a wrap for 2023. The first ever season of BRSCC Audi TT Cup Racing can surely only be seen as a success? All brand new race series' have the same worry... what if no one shows up??? Well, I can give a first hand account that this series had excellent grids for its first year of racing and is clearly set to have even bigger grids next year. We had over 20 cars at the final round at Snetterton. I'll be shocked if there aren't 25+ cars on the grid for the opening round in 2024.
Will we be joining them next season? No.
The series has clearly got a lot of people interested, and there are plenty of racers considering TTCR as an option for 2024. I've had loads of people ask me my thoughts on the series, both on social media and at the tracks. So I'll try to answer some of those questions honestly and (unlike me) succinctly, as an extra bit of info for anyone considering TTCR for next year.
Are the cars any good?
Yes. They're fun to drive, they have some interesting characteristics, you are not simply holding your foot flat all the way round the circuit you do have to drive them. The biggest limiting factor all year has been the tyre, and they are now switching from the NS2R to a Direzza next season which will clearly make a big difference to how the car feels and how quick it goes. The cars have proven fairly reliable - ours didn't fail us all season and was 100%. But there were a fair number of engine failures across the year for other teams. I am not the right person to go into any detail on that, but I would say that most people have got by fairly well by simply pulling out engines and swapping in a new donor engine when things go wrong. There don't appear to be many other weak points / regular technical failures on the car (other than many drivers constantly complaining about brake issues and braking-related issues) but I personally have found the new EBC brake upgrade kit to be excellent. The Cartek electronic isolator is clearly also a frequent source of issues and a much maligned part among the drivers! The cars have also proven themselves super competitive on other grids. A few of the guys have raced very successfully in Clubsport this year. The TT's sit quite nicely in a couple other classes and look like a great choice of all-rounder race car. Another really good reason to go for it!
Whats with the DSG / Manual mix of cars, isn't single-make racing supposed to be identical cars?
I don't understand this either, its really puzzled me. But my advice is do not run a DSG car. My car is a manual, so I'm not best placed to give advice on anything specific to do with the DSG cars. But I am privvy to all of the conversations that happen between TTCR teams / drivers... and I'm saying do not run a DSG car.
Would you recommend trying TTCR in 2024?
This depends. Its only my opinion, and I'm far from an 'experienced racer', so there are lots of people on the TTCR grid this year who's opinion I'd listen to wayyy before mine. But for those who've asked me; YES I would recommend it IF you're going to be run by a team. If you're already a 'proper team', running a car or being run in another single-make series, then yes I'd definitely recommend TTCR it has everything that the other big single-make series have and its going to get bigger next year - go for it! BUT if you're planning to build your own car, chuck it on a trailer, and rock up to the races on your own or with your Dad (like I did) then I cannot honestly say that I'd recommend it. I just think that its not the series it looked like before it started (in my view). This may be purely down to my naivety and lack of single-make racing experience - but I thought all the cars would be identical in performance and that even the less experienced / well-prepared drivers could rock up and have a good go. But my steep learning curve this season has told me that's simply not the case. The same 4, 5, 6 drivers occupied the top 4, 5, 6 positions at every race. The front half of the grid are faster drivers, for sure. But they are also quite simply in faster cars, as well. I'm not saying that there's any mischief going on, I mean that the front running cars are simply prepared to a much higher standard, have really experienced people making the decisions and running the cars, and that the multitude of marginal gains they achieve across a race weekend add up to a huge margin by the time you get on track. If you're a one-man band or a very small outfit racing purely for fun - you'll have to go into this series totally cool with being outside the top-10 at every single race. For some people that's absolutely fine; but its hard to justify spending £20-30K a season to do that, it's just not enough fun - and there isn't a class system to give you something else to aim for (unless your an older driver in which case you can battle for the silver fox award). It may be that this is the same in any single-make series, and what I'm saying sounds really obvious to people who have raced in MX5's or CityCup etc. But it was news to me this year, and is the main reason why I am not racing in TTCR next season, so I thought worth sharing in case its useful for anyone else to hear as they contemplate the series for themselves. I should caveat what I've said, by mentioning that there were other 'small' teams running on a tight budget with limited personel who DID manage to mix it near the front at times - and its perfectly possible that a sh*t hot driver may be able to simply jump into one of these cars and be competitive. Its just my personal conclusion that you'll need to be run by a proper team to have a proper go.
Why don't you just take what you've learned and apply it in TTCR next season in 2024?
Budget. I can't afford to join one of the teams and have my car run for me, and learn how to do it properly - I'd need much deeper pockets for that. To be a front runner in this series you'll need to go testing every round, and I'm not able to extend my race weekends to Thursday-Sunday, its sadly not feasible. Its also other aspects of budget too - the cars continued to get more expensive as the 2023 season went on, with a multitude of parts becoming necessary and some mandatory - this will inevitably continue with further costs such as new turbos etc likely to crop up. There's also the tyre issue; my personal view (which I kept to myself during the almost relentless tyre discussions throughout the year) was that the NS2R tyre was fine - its cheap and cheerful and it makes sense for the tyre to be the limiting factor in the cars - everyone's in the same boat - and the car remains unstressed instead of upgrading the tyre and then making the gearbox or driveshafts or something else the weak point. But the consensus was the cars needed better (and much more expensive) tyres. So the tyre budget for next season will go from circa £800 to around £3000 (just my estimate based on whats been said). In short, I don't think TTCR is the entry-level single make series it was pitched as. Its not for new racers, and its not for tiny teams. Its a new direct competitor to the Civic Cup, and in my view it serves almost exactly the same audience. I'm sad about that, because I thought it was intentionally conceived for and aimed at a distinct bracket below that, but it my experience that's just not the case. If that's what you're looking for then a much better choice would be the BRSCC ST150 Challenge or something else.
What did it cost?
£30,000. That's a lot of money for an entry level series. The car turned out to cost a good deal more to build than was advertised. And there were a few expenses that cropped up along the season. But thats what it cost me to race this season, from first getting the car all the way through to racing at the final round. Obviously costs vary hugely depending on teams and circumstances, others may have been able to do it cheaper than me? But I may as well be honest and share my own experience as a loosely useful guide to others in my position. If you are dreaming of building a TTCR car yourself and racing next season on a really carefully worked out budget of 20K forget it - its only going to get more expensive next year. God knows what they guys who bought their cars and then did arrive'n'drive spent this year... not entry level money!
I have a few other gripes about the series and the way its been run which have helped my decision not to race in it next season. But I think those are possibly personal to me specifically and not necessarily reflective of this season as a whole for the TTCR - so best kept to myself rather than shared in a public forum; others may have had much more positive experiences or views of certain things than me. I would say that the consensus in the paddock and drivers groups seems to be generally very positive.
So in conclusion, I think TTCR is a cracking addition to our beloved sport. Its going to be a support series for TCR next season which can only be a good thing for the series' popularity and exposure (if not a good thing for the costs). The cars are good, and the paddock is really good - full of friendly helpful people who are there to have fun and not to get their elbows out. The future looks bright. But that gap in the market that I thought TTCR had arrived to fill is sadly still open.
We'll be watching the races next year, and probably kicking ourselves for not being involved. It will be a great series to watch, and an excellent addition to the TCR package.
Christ almighty 30k for club motor racing, winning a plastic pot in a championship that will not get you into touring cars.
It’s a BRSCC issue though, they are being led by the professional teams, rather than dictating to the teams what the rules are. The tyre issue being one such point. Yes the cars will be faster but more things will fail, which is good news for the preparation teams. The more they can charge for the better. It’ll be a 35k championship next year and 40k after that, until no one wants to race in because of the cost. Then it’ll be amalgamated like most Brscc formulae. It’s been the same way since the late 90s.
It’s a BRSCC issue though, they are being led by the professional teams, rather than dictating to the teams what the rules are. The tyre issue being one such point. Yes the cars will be faster but more things will fail, which is good news for the preparation teams. The more they can charge for the better. It’ll be a 35k championship next year and 40k after that, until no one wants to race in because of the cost. Then it’ll be amalgamated like most Brscc formulae. It’s been the same way since the late 90s.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Christ almighty 30k for club motor racing, winning a plastic pot in a championship that will not get you into touring cars.
It’s a BRSCC issue though, they are being led by the professional teams, rather than dictating to the teams what the rules are. The tyre issue being one such point. Yes the cars will be faster but more things will fail, which is good news for the preparation teams. The more they can charge for the better. It’ll be a 35k championship next year and 40k after that, until no one wants to race in because of the cost. Then it’ll be amalgamated like most Brscc formulae. It’s been the same way since the late 90s.
Professionalised club racing in a nutshell It’s a BRSCC issue though, they are being led by the professional teams, rather than dictating to the teams what the rules are. The tyre issue being one such point. Yes the cars will be faster but more things will fail, which is good news for the preparation teams. The more they can charge for the better. It’ll be a 35k championship next year and 40k after that, until no one wants to race in because of the cost. Then it’ll be amalgamated like most Brscc formulae. It’s been the same way since the late 90s.
SparrowHawk said:
Would you recommend trying TTCR in 2024?
...BUT if you're planning to build your own car, chuck it on a trailer, and rock up to the races on your own or with your Dad (like I did) then I cannot honestly say that I'd recommend it. I just think that its not the series it looked like before it started (in my view). This may be purely down to my naivety and lack of single-make racing experience - but I thought all the cars would be identical in performance and that even the less experienced / well-prepared drivers could rock up and have a good go. But my steep learning curve this season has told me that's simply not the case. The same 4, 5, 6 drivers occupied the top 4, 5, 6 positions at every race. The front half of the grid are faster drivers, for sure. But they are also quite simply in faster cars, as well. I'm not saying that there's any mischief going on, I mean that the front running cars are simply prepared to a much higher standard, have really experienced people making the decisions and running the cars, and that the multitude of marginal gains they achieve across a race weekend add up to a huge margin by the time you get on track. If you're a one-man band or a very small outfit racing purely for fun - you'll have to go into this series totally cool with being outside the top-10 at every single race. For some people that's absolutely fine; but its hard to justify spending £20-30K a season to do that, it's just not enough fun - and there isn't a class system to give you something else to aim for (unless your an older driver in which case you can battle for the silver fox award). It may be that this is the same in any single-make series, and what I'm saying sounds really obvious to people who have raced in MX5's or CityCup etc. But it was news to me this year, and is the main reason why I am not racing in TTCR next season, so I thought worth sharing in case its useful for anyone else to hear as they contemplate the series for themselves. I should caveat what I've said, by mentioning that there were other 'small' teams running on a tight budget with limited personel who DID manage to mix it near the front at times - and its perfectly possible that a sh*t hot driver may be able to simply jump into one of these cars and be competitive. Its just my personal conclusion that you'll need to be run by a proper team to have a proper go.
Good write-up OP and kudos for coming back to share your experiences of competing, would agree with what you've written about one-make series. Even with my favourite 'One Make' series (the MR2 series run by 750MC) the front runners in that series are usually the same group of drivers, some even driving 'rent-a-drive' cars prepared by teams. Owing to either their teams' preparation abilities or the driver's own expertise with the car, the result tends to be the same group of drivers or cars mixing it at the front of the field. As you say there can be great satisfaction to be had from upsetting the order with a car you've built/prepared yourself, it's a shame but money will always find an advantage in motorsport. ...BUT if you're planning to build your own car, chuck it on a trailer, and rock up to the races on your own or with your Dad (like I did) then I cannot honestly say that I'd recommend it. I just think that its not the series it looked like before it started (in my view). This may be purely down to my naivety and lack of single-make racing experience - but I thought all the cars would be identical in performance and that even the less experienced / well-prepared drivers could rock up and have a good go. But my steep learning curve this season has told me that's simply not the case. The same 4, 5, 6 drivers occupied the top 4, 5, 6 positions at every race. The front half of the grid are faster drivers, for sure. But they are also quite simply in faster cars, as well. I'm not saying that there's any mischief going on, I mean that the front running cars are simply prepared to a much higher standard, have really experienced people making the decisions and running the cars, and that the multitude of marginal gains they achieve across a race weekend add up to a huge margin by the time you get on track. If you're a one-man band or a very small outfit racing purely for fun - you'll have to go into this series totally cool with being outside the top-10 at every single race. For some people that's absolutely fine; but its hard to justify spending £20-30K a season to do that, it's just not enough fun - and there isn't a class system to give you something else to aim for (unless your an older driver in which case you can battle for the silver fox award). It may be that this is the same in any single-make series, and what I'm saying sounds really obvious to people who have raced in MX5's or CityCup etc. But it was news to me this year, and is the main reason why I am not racing in TTCR next season, so I thought worth sharing in case its useful for anyone else to hear as they contemplate the series for themselves. I should caveat what I've said, by mentioning that there were other 'small' teams running on a tight budget with limited personel who DID manage to mix it near the front at times - and its perfectly possible that a sh*t hot driver may be able to simply jump into one of these cars and be competitive. Its just my personal conclusion that you'll need to be run by a proper team to have a proper go.
Just wading through the sour grapes to post on here.
It is more than possible to run at the front of ANY one make series, running the car yourself, IF you have the talent.
There are plenty people with heaps of money who have a team build and run their car, do two test days before each race meeting, throw new tyres at it all the time, and still are nowhere near the front.
I ran a driver a while back who would go to a test day, do 15 minutes in the car and if it was right, that would be it, pack up for the day. Bang on the pace, straight away. He wasn’t hugely wealthy but he was immensely talented.
Steve Foden won the BRSCC MX5 championship this year, not because he spent the most money, he most certainly didn’t, but because he was the fastest and most consistent driver on the grid.
I would hazard a guess that most one make series are the same. The guys running at the front are there because they can drive.
/2p
p.s. Switching to Direzzas or any other semi-slick is a stupid idea. Everyone gets obsessed about making the cars faster and it just leads to them being much more expensive to run. After such a great start it’s a shame to see this championship heading down that path to destruction so early on.
It is more than possible to run at the front of ANY one make series, running the car yourself, IF you have the talent.
There are plenty people with heaps of money who have a team build and run their car, do two test days before each race meeting, throw new tyres at it all the time, and still are nowhere near the front.
I ran a driver a while back who would go to a test day, do 15 minutes in the car and if it was right, that would be it, pack up for the day. Bang on the pace, straight away. He wasn’t hugely wealthy but he was immensely talented.
Steve Foden won the BRSCC MX5 championship this year, not because he spent the most money, he most certainly didn’t, but because he was the fastest and most consistent driver on the grid.
I would hazard a guess that most one make series are the same. The guys running at the front are there because they can drive.
/2p
p.s. Switching to Direzzas or any other semi-slick is a stupid idea. Everyone gets obsessed about making the cars faster and it just leads to them being much more expensive to run. After such a great start it’s a shame to see this championship heading down that path to destruction so early on.
Edited by Dan BSCS on Monday 30th October 09:38
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