AUDI TTCR (TT Cup Racing)
Discussion
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
Christ almighty 30k for club motor racing, winning a plastic pot in a championship that will not get you into touring cars.
Realistically when I priced up a car build I couldn't see change from £20k being a possibility so £30k (of which £3k is entry fees alone) for the first season is what it is really, believe it or not, it's not even that expensive for Club Racing. I am not sure how this transpires to £20-30k a season though.For some reason people see One Make and assume a few things "Entry Level" being one of them, I keep seeing this crop up, looking at it from a financial point of view, no it's not entry level, Mazda's, Compact Cup, MR2's etc all one make and do provide an entry level price point. For some reason people assume one make should be buttons to build and run, I am not sure why, I actually don't think they should, look at the crashiest formulas and they are generally (there always exceptions to some rules) at the cheaper end, people fear smashing the car up less when it's cheap.
From a racing point of view, clearly you will need to know how to set a car up it doesn't matter what you race this is a required skill, some cars are more forgiving than others and have a wider setup window that can to an extent mask someone's lack of understanding, it will get them there or there abouts, from there over time and generally with some input and some testing from time to time. Most one make stuff is dominated by seat time, so while there is some cost element to this its not a simple pay to win approach.
In this instance the OP's lack of seat time is clear to read out (I have met him in person, thoroughly nice chap as is his dad, this isn't a dig but just an observation to underline my point, I could have chosen a different driver but this was the easiest example for me to work with that would be relevant), looking at the last round at Snetterton in Qualy he is 10s off the pace, by the end of race two, just 5, the whole field is covered by 5 seconds of pace in fastest laps with the top 6 all within 1 second of each other. I would suggest some of the loss is seat time, some setup, in other words nothing unusual.
One final point on your post anyway and its a general thing, your assertion that Club Motorsport doesn't give you the opportunity to get into Touring Cars is a little wrong, when the likes of Jiggy, Mikey Doble and to a certain extent Ash Sutton (Formula Vee) as well as a few others all came through that route. These are by no means exceptions either. So while not every top level club racer gets the knock from BTCC some certainly do, some go onto other top level motorsport championships.
I have purposefully stayed away from working through the OP's post as it's known I work with the BRSCC and I will be accused of shilling for them or whatever when I have absolutely nothing to do with the TT's. I run a different Championship I have also run other one make Championships and consulted for and worked with a few different clubs, I have done roles from Coordinator to Safety Car Driver so I have some experience with what I am talking about. There are many many people out there with more and varied experience but I would venture they would agree with most of what I have put forth.
Finally Rich if you would like to PM me some specifics that you would like fed back to the club in complete anonymity feel free.
Edited by geeks on Monday 30th October 10:32
SparrowHawk said:
What did it cost?
£30,000. That's a lot of money for an entry level series. The car turned out to cost a good deal more to build than was advertised. And there were a few expenses that cropped up along the season. But thats what it cost me to race this season, from first getting the car all the way through to racing at the final round.
Thanks for the detailed review of your season.£30,000. That's a lot of money for an entry level series. The car turned out to cost a good deal more to build than was advertised. And there were a few expenses that cropped up along the season. But thats what it cost me to race this season, from first getting the car all the way through to racing at the final round.
Surely you still have the car as an asset that can be sold to someone wanting to take part in the championship next year. So your real cost needs to account for whatever proceeds that sale might realise - say £15K?
SparrowHawk said:
END OF SEASON UPDATE
Really interesting write-up of your season OP. Thanks for sharing.Many of your observations apply in any single-make championship, where the drivers are competitive and treating it as serious racing, rather than just 'having fun'. This for me is the main distinction between them and multi-class, multi-car racing, and for me it's also the big attraction of single make racing, which means I've never been interested in doing multi-class stuff.
I disagree about it being necessary to run with a large team though. Knowledge, experience, time, and budget are the big factors in maximising the car performance. The arrive and drive teams allow you to buy their knowledge and experience, meaning less of a time commitment for the driver overall, but at the cost of needing a bigger budget.
It is definitely possible though to race at the front and win in these sorts of competitive single make championships with a smaller budget, building and preparing you own car at home in the garage, IF you have the knowledge, experience, and time to commit to it.
Ultimately the guys consistently at the front in these series are the best drivers and the car preparation makes a much smaller difference than talent behind the wheel.
Dynion Araf Uchaf said:
It’s a BRSCC issue though, they are being led by the professional teams, rather than dictating to the teams what the rules are.
Completely agree with this from my own experiences. The BRSCC are far too heavily influenced by a small number of professional teams and car preparation outfits in their series, whose main motivation is generating profit over the health and quality of the racing.Having been through the whole 'we should have fast, grippier, less durable, more expensive tyres' debates as well, I think for some on the drivers side the reason they want grippier tyres is to make the cars easier to drive, as they think that will help them get better results.
Being 5-10 seconds off the pace is nothing to do with having a team or not.
I watched a few of these races and they look pretty good tbh - and I was expecting them to be dire.
Interesting write-up. Surprised OP isn't going back for more - 2nd year costs are always WAY cheaper than the first learning+car build year.
I watched a few of these races and they look pretty good tbh - and I was expecting them to be dire.
Interesting write-up. Surprised OP isn't going back for more - 2nd year costs are always WAY cheaper than the first learning+car build year.
apologies I misread the post, thought he said 30k for the first season. I didn't take that to mean the car build as well. So realistically 10k to run it, which is about par with most club level championships if you DIY it. Bringing in a team, would see that at £1500 per event plus entry and testing.
More pro drivers should start their career in club racing, there's a good depth of competition, old hands and young guns and for a the cost of 1 season of MINI challenge you could do 5 seasons of club racing, plus testing, tuition and the like, and be far better prepared to make an impact in the junior professional ranks if you think you have what it takes.
More pro drivers should start their career in club racing, there's a good depth of competition, old hands and young guns and for a the cost of 1 season of MINI challenge you could do 5 seasons of club racing, plus testing, tuition and the like, and be far better prepared to make an impact in the junior professional ranks if you think you have what it takes.
Am I correct in thinking that there were 7 meetings in 2023 and there were 3 x 15 min races at each meeting, plus 1 qualifying session totalling 1 hour track time per meeting?
To be honest, £10k (not counting build costs) for that sounds about par for the course for that sort of car and series.
To be honest, £10k (not counting build costs) for that sounds about par for the course for that sort of car and series.
Thanks for the replies - good to see people have showed an interest in the TTCR. Its clearly a good addition to UK motorsport. Given the grid sizes in its first season, its going to become a mainstay.
In terms of the comments - "I'm just wading through the sour grapes" was my favourite, and made me chuckle. You're right there's an element of that yes... I think I even used that phrase myself in an earlier post. But my overall feedback of the season's racing is not bad, it is good. We had fun. I've just made my decision not to race in it again next year, and have shared why that is.
The costs involved are not scandalous at all. As another poster mentioned, its relative to a few of the other one-make series out there. If the car is sold, and some money recouped, then the overall costs for my season are probably around the £15,000 mark. That's not at all uncommon. But those costs were doing it on an absolute budget! No team support and no testing. My point is, that was last year. Its going to be more expensive next year. And so on. Its also the case that the teams at the front already spent more money than that this season (probably considerably more), and will continue needing to spend more and more to remain at the front. It is not the case that anyone will be spending just £10,000 to race in TTCR in 2024, thats just not feasible.
On the point about faster drivers being able to be up the front regardless of budget - I agree. The fastest drivers are at the front because they are fast, not just because they have the budget. But they also DO have the budget. And that leads to all of the incremental gains that some other drivers don't have. It creates an even bigger gap.
In the example given by @DanBSCS "I ran a driver a while back who would go to a test day, do 15 minutes in the car and if it was right, that would be it, pack up for the day. Bang on the pace, straight away. He wasn’t hugely wealthy but he was immensely talented." You've just said yourself that the driver was 'being run' and that he was also going testing. That's exactly what I am saying, isn't it?
You need to be run by a team and to go testing for every round to be competitive. Driving talent alone isn't enough in single-make racing; you need to know what you're doing. Part of what makes the fastest drivers fast is their knowledge and experience/expertise that they have built up; how to get the most out of a car, how to maximise grip from a tyre, how to get the most out of a test session, how to log and interpret data, how to hold a discussion (however simple or complex) with a race engineer to make positive changes to setup, how to chase continuous improvement across the course of a race weekend. Its all part of what makes motorsport so fun and complex. I'm not knocking that at all, I am saying I don't have the budget to be run by a team who can help me with all of those important things. Its why I won't be racing in TTCR next season.
For those racing on a budget, who are still relatively new to racing, or haven't come up through karting and other single-make formulae, who are not 'being run' by a team, and who can't go testing for each round - realistically you're not going to be in the mix. There were some very good drivers who didn't trouble the podium at all this season in the TT's ( and no, I'm obviously not counting myself among those! ). For those who are very knowledgeable about racing, nothing I've said is news. But for those of us still relatively new to being on the grid, its all a learning-curve and I learned a lot in my first year of single-make racing.
In terms of the comments - "I'm just wading through the sour grapes" was my favourite, and made me chuckle. You're right there's an element of that yes... I think I even used that phrase myself in an earlier post. But my overall feedback of the season's racing is not bad, it is good. We had fun. I've just made my decision not to race in it again next year, and have shared why that is.
The costs involved are not scandalous at all. As another poster mentioned, its relative to a few of the other one-make series out there. If the car is sold, and some money recouped, then the overall costs for my season are probably around the £15,000 mark. That's not at all uncommon. But those costs were doing it on an absolute budget! No team support and no testing. My point is, that was last year. Its going to be more expensive next year. And so on. Its also the case that the teams at the front already spent more money than that this season (probably considerably more), and will continue needing to spend more and more to remain at the front. It is not the case that anyone will be spending just £10,000 to race in TTCR in 2024, thats just not feasible.
On the point about faster drivers being able to be up the front regardless of budget - I agree. The fastest drivers are at the front because they are fast, not just because they have the budget. But they also DO have the budget. And that leads to all of the incremental gains that some other drivers don't have. It creates an even bigger gap.
In the example given by @DanBSCS "I ran a driver a while back who would go to a test day, do 15 minutes in the car and if it was right, that would be it, pack up for the day. Bang on the pace, straight away. He wasn’t hugely wealthy but he was immensely talented." You've just said yourself that the driver was 'being run' and that he was also going testing. That's exactly what I am saying, isn't it?
You need to be run by a team and to go testing for every round to be competitive. Driving talent alone isn't enough in single-make racing; you need to know what you're doing. Part of what makes the fastest drivers fast is their knowledge and experience/expertise that they have built up; how to get the most out of a car, how to maximise grip from a tyre, how to get the most out of a test session, how to log and interpret data, how to hold a discussion (however simple or complex) with a race engineer to make positive changes to setup, how to chase continuous improvement across the course of a race weekend. Its all part of what makes motorsport so fun and complex. I'm not knocking that at all, I am saying I don't have the budget to be run by a team who can help me with all of those important things. Its why I won't be racing in TTCR next season.
For those racing on a budget, who are still relatively new to racing, or haven't come up through karting and other single-make formulae, who are not 'being run' by a team, and who can't go testing for each round - realistically you're not going to be in the mix. There were some very good drivers who didn't trouble the podium at all this season in the TT's ( and no, I'm obviously not counting myself among those! ). For those who are very knowledgeable about racing, nothing I've said is news. But for those of us still relatively new to being on the grid, its all a learning-curve and I learned a lot in my first year of single-make racing.
SparrowHawk said:
You need to be run by a team and to go testing for every round to be competitive.
No you don't. (You do need seat time, but you can get that on cheap winter trackdays or whatever, instead of over-priced, time limited session based test days).Also: did you log everything you spent? Share it with us so we can see where the money went. £3k are entry fees so you've got £12k not inclduing team fees or testing.. what did you break? How many sets of tyres etc?
I logged everything I spent for one year as I was on a tight budget, and it was really easy to see where the waste was - most of it went on hotels, food and fuel rather than racing.
Altrezia said:
....... most of it went on hotels, food and fuel rather than racing.
Even with camping in tents at circuits, or having ridiculously early starts for one-day meetings, fuel is an enormous cost these days for our hobby, especially if friends and family might come along too, and you're covering their costs in whole or part.in the early 2000s, we used to run in the BTRDA and BRC in the 1400cc class, and whilst fuel was an expense, it was tolerable. Christ knows what running the service vehicle, chase car, rally car and any other passenger cars would be like these days.
Yep, every penny tracked. I'm not at all unhappy with the budget. Hopefully my posts about this don't come across as me complaining or saying "that's bad value", because that is not what I think. Nothing I'm saying is meant as a criticism, I am just sharing my experiences/observations as that's what I think this forum is for - and I've gained a lot from reading about others experiences.
@geeks Thanks for the feedback and offer of a chat. I'd be happy to catch up next time we're at a track at the same time. Snetterton perhaps not the best meeting to use as an example, as we had other factors going on - but your point holds true. I completely agree with you that experience and seat-time are the most important factor. I'm not disputing that - I'm asserting that by far the best way (for me specifically) to gain that experience and make the most of that seat-time, is to be run by one of the team's who already know what they are doing. And for that, I'd need to double my budget.
SparrowHawk said:
Yep, every penny tracked. I'm not at all unhappy with the budget. Hopefully my posts about this don't come across as me complaining or saying "that's bad value", because that is not what I think. Nothing I'm saying is meant as a criticism, I am just sharing my experiences/observations as that's what I think this forum is for - and I've gained a lot from reading about others experiences.
Thanks for the insights so far, are you able to share what some of the biggest costs were over the season?mat205125 said:
Even with camping in tents at circuits, or having ridiculously early starts for one-day meetings, fuel is an enormous cost these days for our hobby, especially if friends and family might come along too, and you're covering their costs in whole or part.
in the early 2000s, we used to run in the BTRDA and BRC in the 1400cc class, and whilst fuel was an expense, it was tolerable. Christ knows what running the service vehicle, chase car, rally car and any other passenger cars would be like these days.
I understand that - but it's not twelve grand of fuel in the early 2000s, we used to run in the BTRDA and BRC in the 1400cc class, and whilst fuel was an expense, it was tolerable. Christ knows what running the service vehicle, chase car, rally car and any other passenger cars would be like these days.
I've rarely gone over 12k for a year all in (and I always have a hotel as I hate tents!) - I'm surprised that these TTs take up "so much" that's all.
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SparrowHawk said:
I'm asserting that by far the best way (for me specifically) to gain that experience and make the most of that seat-time, is to be run by one of the team's who already know what they are doing. And for that, I'd need to double my budget.
Sounds like you're thinking that running with a team and doing the Friday test days is a shortcut to being a championship contender, but no amount professional team support or budget can make someone a front runner in a competitive single make championship if they're new to racing. Single make championships are a big step up in competitiveness from the majority of multi-class, multi-car racing, and almost everyone goes through a period of being towards the tail end of the results before they are able to mix it at the front. Often drivers who have won several championships across different single make race series will switch to a new championship, and be a midfield runner for a while until they get to grips with the new car and championship.
I'm not sure if what you want is to race in something where you can turn up, being inexperienced both in driving and car preparation, and still be getting podium finishes or race wins?
When I looked at TTCR when it was announced, I thought it would be a series where running costs for the car could easily spiral. If racing TTCR next year isn't possible due to budget, I'd still urge you to stick with single make racing even if it's not being run by a team and build on the experience you've gained
Some interesting comments in debate in this thread, so I thought I would add my tuppence worth.
I've done my fair share of racing in both single make series and multi-class stuff, sprints and longer races. I don't agree that you need to be running with an established 'team' to be somewhere near the front in any club level series, but of course you DO need someone who really knows what they are doing with that particular car. If that's not you, then you need some outside help of course. I don't think it's realistic to expect to turn up and run at the front without knowing how to get the most out of the car.
I've raced in series where the guys at the front have been both 'lad and dad' setups and individuals with big teams behind them. The two things that they all have in common is that they spend time setting the cars up well (and consistently) and they are lightning fast behind the wheel!
On the flip side, there are also plenty of drivers running with high profile teams that don't trouble the scorers, and spend a fair bit of time parked up by the side of the track. I'm also always amazed at how many of these teams don't seem to be able to work a stopwatch as they miss minimum pit stop times, or don't call the drivers in during safety cars and throw away good positions by not reacting to what's in front of them.
I am a bit concerned by the proliferation of 'big' teams in club series, as they can become a bit too dominant both on the track and in the organising club. I think there are few references to this earlier in the thread (and it is by no means limited to one club) and it gives the impression (as per the OP) that you have to run with one of these teams in order to get anywhere, and it just isn't the case.
I've spent several years setting my car up myself (from tweaking bits and bobs between meetings to changing engines overnight at the track) and am happy that it's been as well prepared as any other car on the grid. I know I'm not the quickest driver, but have picked up a few race wins, podiums and even a class championship on the way. I love the fact that our little family set up can mix it with the big boys, and wouldn't have it any other way!
Need to be a little careful with the things you are suggesting.
Firstly a lot of the cars in the teams awnings and those that are front running cars are not being prepared by the teams running them, in fact in the series I’m in (single make with the BRSCC) only 2 of the regular top 10 are actually prepared by the team that is running them on the day.
I myself run with a team but all the prep setup and other effort is me, marginal gains? that’s me. I give the team the setup the drivers all work on their own data, we don’t have race engineers unless checking tyre pressures is engineering. The teams are used as a safety net and to help take the pressure off on a race weekend should something happen in single make racing you can’t buy your way to the front.
So your assertion kinda pi$$es me off.
Want to know what gets you at the front? Hard work and time…lots and lots of time. You need to be open minded, self reflective, humble, dedicated and determined. Is it rewarding hell yeah can you buy your way to the front hell no, that is why you either love one make or hate it.
Firstly a lot of the cars in the teams awnings and those that are front running cars are not being prepared by the teams running them, in fact in the series I’m in (single make with the BRSCC) only 2 of the regular top 10 are actually prepared by the team that is running them on the day.
I myself run with a team but all the prep setup and other effort is me, marginal gains? that’s me. I give the team the setup the drivers all work on their own data, we don’t have race engineers unless checking tyre pressures is engineering. The teams are used as a safety net and to help take the pressure off on a race weekend should something happen in single make racing you can’t buy your way to the front.
So your assertion kinda pi$$es me off.
Want to know what gets you at the front? Hard work and time…lots and lots of time. You need to be open minded, self reflective, humble, dedicated and determined. Is it rewarding hell yeah can you buy your way to the front hell no, that is why you either love one make or hate it.
Thanks for taking the time to reply on this thread, interesting hearing differing points of view - that's why Pistonheads is a great resource for people like me still relatively new to racing and wanting to learn more.
One thing everyone seems agreed on, is that there are no short-cuts in racing. We certainly didn't expect to come into single-make racing for the first time and compete for race wins - that was never our expectation.
Its all a learning curve, and what we feel we've learned this year is that single-make racing is still a bit out of our comfort zone, and we need to spend some more seasons honing our craft and learning how to go fast - before coming back into a single-make series in future when we're better equipped. My view that if I wanted to race in TTCR again next season and be remotely competitive, I would need to run with a team to guide me and to help teach me all of those incremental gains, is pretty common sense and seems to tally with the feedback kindly shared on here. So I'm not quite sure why some on this thread are taking that view as in any way negative or disparaging. But perhaps I'm being dense!
Thanks again for the input - its all a learning curve and we're intending to crack on with some more racing in mixed grid series next year - to continue our journey and building our knowledge so that we can have another go at single-make racing again in the future
One thing everyone seems agreed on, is that there are no short-cuts in racing. We certainly didn't expect to come into single-make racing for the first time and compete for race wins - that was never our expectation.
Its all a learning curve, and what we feel we've learned this year is that single-make racing is still a bit out of our comfort zone, and we need to spend some more seasons honing our craft and learning how to go fast - before coming back into a single-make series in future when we're better equipped. My view that if I wanted to race in TTCR again next season and be remotely competitive, I would need to run with a team to guide me and to help teach me all of those incremental gains, is pretty common sense and seems to tally with the feedback kindly shared on here. So I'm not quite sure why some on this thread are taking that view as in any way negative or disparaging. But perhaps I'm being dense!
Thanks again for the input - its all a learning curve and we're intending to crack on with some more racing in mixed grid series next year - to continue our journey and building our knowledge so that we can have another go at single-make racing again in the future
After a quick Google search whilst looking for articles on TTCR, I stumbled across this thread (hi Rich!), thought some of the opinions were very interesting and as a fellow competitor in this year's series, wanted to give some alternative feedback.
To give some background on my racing "career", I raced karts competitively from the age of 8 until 17, culminating in race wins and top 10 championship finishes in Super One British karting. I then had a 15-year sabbatical from motorsport and prior to 2023, spent 3 partial seasons campaigning a classic Mini in a Scottish historics series. I suppose the point I'm making is that despite being a bit older (37) and therefore less sharp than I was in my youth, the "nuts and bolts" are there as far as kart/car control and door-to-door racing experience goes.
Like Rich, the big draw for me was the proposed low cost and the reliability of the cars. Coming from classics, I didn't have experience with anything "modern" so wanted a car in which I could turn the key and go racing. I also think the cars look the b
ks. Call me superficial but they look like proper little GT cars and that’s definitely appealing to quite a lot of people. Like Rich, we were doing it as a "dad and lad" setup, with no team support whatsoever and quite literally, no experience of setting up a car. For both the TT and my Mini previously, we got a garage in Aberdeen to give us a “base” setup and all we changed throughout the entire season was tyre pressures (honestly).
So, to get into the nitty gritty, I’ll start with the most important aspect…cost.
I concur with Rich in that we spent about £30k this year. I didn’t actually track my exact spend but that’s definitely in the right ballpark. £20k of that was buying the road car and having it converted to a racing car by a professional. I would have saved £5k if I’d done it myself but to be honest I don’t have the time, experience or inclination to do that. I also agree with Rich in that we found it frustrating that changes were made to the regs throughout the season, meaning we had to upgrade parts unexpectedly and at quite a cost as well. However, I can see why the changes were made and at the end of the day, it was the first season so we were all feeling it out as we went along.
As far as running costs go, I’ve actually worked out a proper budget for 2024 which looks as follows:
Tow Car Fuel: £2500 (I live in Aberdeen and the series is very southern-centric next year)
Accommodation: £2000
Entry Fees: £3000
Friday Free Practice (3x rounds only): £1300
Race Car Fuel: £1000
Tyres: £2100
Food etc.: £1900
Damage/Parts: £3500
So I’m looking at about £17K for next season and that really is on a very tight budget compared to most of the grid. If I was doing free practice at every single round then it would probably be £19-20k (taking into account the extra practice fees, extra race car fuel, extra nights in digs, extra food etc.). However, if you’re in the midlands of England then you’d probably have £1000 less to be spent on tow car fuel.
Realistically, the car itself is the expensive part in this series. Once you’re up and running, I can’t see the budget being too different to something like a BMW Compact Cup car as most of it is tied up in costs that would be common to any other BRSCC series (entry fees, travel/accommodation costs, consumables etc.).
Next up…the cars/standard of racing.
The cars look great, sound great and are great to drive. The car is definitely “better than the tyre” as they understeer like hell coming out of corners so I’m glad that the series have secured backing to give us Direzzas at a good price next season. They are of course still a bit more expensive than the NS2Rs but in the grand scheme of things, tyres are quite a small part of my budget (~12%). I’m also happy that the series are limiting tyres to 16 per season as that does help prevent guys with limitless budgets taking the piss. As far as reliability is concerned, it seemed like almost everyone had the same issues at one point or another (faulty N75 valves, turbo rod actuators snapping, thermostats causing issues) so next year everyone should be a bit more prepared and I’d expect the attrition rates to be a bit lower.
This was my first season of one make racing (karting excepted) and it was pretty much as expected as far as driving standards go. With the exception of the inevitable one or two drivers who seemed to be magnets for trouble, everyone was fairly respectful and seemed to appreciate that there would always be the odd unintentional bump or rub when the racing is hard but fair. My only concern for next year is the added seriousness of it being a championship and also the better tyres reducing braking zones etc. which could lead to some over enthusiastic lunges on the brakes.
As has been discussed at length already, I do thoroughly disagree with Rich on the topic of “you won’t be in the top 10 unless you’re with a team”. I think we are the perfect example whereby each time we’ve had a car without any issues, we’ve generally been around the top 5/6 both on pace and in race finishes. Added to that the fact that I was turning up straight into qualy at every single round, having never driven any of the circuits before (with the exception of Knockhill where I should have been in the top 2/3 barring some frustrating mechanical failures) and all we were changing on the car was tyre pressures.
In actual fact, guys such as Ross Makar and Richard Forber (who would have been the top 2 drivers if points had been applied this year) are effectively “dad and lad” entries, albeit ones with experience of setting cars up and ones who attended Friday practice at almost every round. As drivers, they are also bloody quick, so I do agree with the others who have said that talent/experience is what makes the big difference (look at Jiggy in the Mini Challenge a few years back – him and his dad ran themselves out of an E-Z-Up and won it against teams with presumably huge budgets).
So to sum up…I absolutely loved it and I can’t wait to get cracking next year. The cars are now a known quantity, the regs have been sorted out, the tyres will be better and to top it off we’re supporting TCR so will have the live streams, big crowds etc.
To give some background on my racing "career", I raced karts competitively from the age of 8 until 17, culminating in race wins and top 10 championship finishes in Super One British karting. I then had a 15-year sabbatical from motorsport and prior to 2023, spent 3 partial seasons campaigning a classic Mini in a Scottish historics series. I suppose the point I'm making is that despite being a bit older (37) and therefore less sharp than I was in my youth, the "nuts and bolts" are there as far as kart/car control and door-to-door racing experience goes.
Like Rich, the big draw for me was the proposed low cost and the reliability of the cars. Coming from classics, I didn't have experience with anything "modern" so wanted a car in which I could turn the key and go racing. I also think the cars look the b
ks. Call me superficial but they look like proper little GT cars and that’s definitely appealing to quite a lot of people. Like Rich, we were doing it as a "dad and lad" setup, with no team support whatsoever and quite literally, no experience of setting up a car. For both the TT and my Mini previously, we got a garage in Aberdeen to give us a “base” setup and all we changed throughout the entire season was tyre pressures (honestly).So, to get into the nitty gritty, I’ll start with the most important aspect…cost.
I concur with Rich in that we spent about £30k this year. I didn’t actually track my exact spend but that’s definitely in the right ballpark. £20k of that was buying the road car and having it converted to a racing car by a professional. I would have saved £5k if I’d done it myself but to be honest I don’t have the time, experience or inclination to do that. I also agree with Rich in that we found it frustrating that changes were made to the regs throughout the season, meaning we had to upgrade parts unexpectedly and at quite a cost as well. However, I can see why the changes were made and at the end of the day, it was the first season so we were all feeling it out as we went along.
As far as running costs go, I’ve actually worked out a proper budget for 2024 which looks as follows:
Tow Car Fuel: £2500 (I live in Aberdeen and the series is very southern-centric next year)
Accommodation: £2000
Entry Fees: £3000
Friday Free Practice (3x rounds only): £1300
Race Car Fuel: £1000
Tyres: £2100
Food etc.: £1900
Damage/Parts: £3500
So I’m looking at about £17K for next season and that really is on a very tight budget compared to most of the grid. If I was doing free practice at every single round then it would probably be £19-20k (taking into account the extra practice fees, extra race car fuel, extra nights in digs, extra food etc.). However, if you’re in the midlands of England then you’d probably have £1000 less to be spent on tow car fuel.
Realistically, the car itself is the expensive part in this series. Once you’re up and running, I can’t see the budget being too different to something like a BMW Compact Cup car as most of it is tied up in costs that would be common to any other BRSCC series (entry fees, travel/accommodation costs, consumables etc.).
Next up…the cars/standard of racing.
The cars look great, sound great and are great to drive. The car is definitely “better than the tyre” as they understeer like hell coming out of corners so I’m glad that the series have secured backing to give us Direzzas at a good price next season. They are of course still a bit more expensive than the NS2Rs but in the grand scheme of things, tyres are quite a small part of my budget (~12%). I’m also happy that the series are limiting tyres to 16 per season as that does help prevent guys with limitless budgets taking the piss. As far as reliability is concerned, it seemed like almost everyone had the same issues at one point or another (faulty N75 valves, turbo rod actuators snapping, thermostats causing issues) so next year everyone should be a bit more prepared and I’d expect the attrition rates to be a bit lower.
This was my first season of one make racing (karting excepted) and it was pretty much as expected as far as driving standards go. With the exception of the inevitable one or two drivers who seemed to be magnets for trouble, everyone was fairly respectful and seemed to appreciate that there would always be the odd unintentional bump or rub when the racing is hard but fair. My only concern for next year is the added seriousness of it being a championship and also the better tyres reducing braking zones etc. which could lead to some over enthusiastic lunges on the brakes.
As has been discussed at length already, I do thoroughly disagree with Rich on the topic of “you won’t be in the top 10 unless you’re with a team”. I think we are the perfect example whereby each time we’ve had a car without any issues, we’ve generally been around the top 5/6 both on pace and in race finishes. Added to that the fact that I was turning up straight into qualy at every single round, having never driven any of the circuits before (with the exception of Knockhill where I should have been in the top 2/3 barring some frustrating mechanical failures) and all we were changing on the car was tyre pressures.
In actual fact, guys such as Ross Makar and Richard Forber (who would have been the top 2 drivers if points had been applied this year) are effectively “dad and lad” entries, albeit ones with experience of setting cars up and ones who attended Friday practice at almost every round. As drivers, they are also bloody quick, so I do agree with the others who have said that talent/experience is what makes the big difference (look at Jiggy in the Mini Challenge a few years back – him and his dad ran themselves out of an E-Z-Up and won it against teams with presumably huge budgets).
So to sum up…I absolutely loved it and I can’t wait to get cracking next year. The cars are now a known quantity, the regs have been sorted out, the tyres will be better and to top it off we’re supporting TCR so will have the live streams, big crowds etc.
Hey Dave. Good to see you're a fellow PH'er! Was a pleasure racing with you this year.
We talked about these things mid-season didn't we, and I know you didn't agree then on that specific point about 'small' teams being in with a shout of getting competitive results; so its good to have your view here on this thread for anyone reading it with an interest in the TTCR series - especially the really helpful info on budget.
But I stand by my view about the novice driver thing, and the two examples you've given are both drivers who I personally consider to be pretty serious racers, one of them came into this season with a sponsored drive and the other came in with previous success and wins in another single-make series over multiple seasons. But I guess I'm risking getting into the semantics of what constitutes a 'proper team' vs lad & dad drivers which is a completely different discussion and not a hill I need to die on haha. I'm also very possibly simply wrong about this point!!
I just feel that the way this year went, and with how its stacking up next year, you will struggle to trouble the top-6 next season - for the reasons we've both mentioned above. I'm sure you know I mean no disrespect by that, as you're a cracking racer and I hope I'm wrong (you know I'll be cheering you on when watching the TT's next season). But I just think the top-6 or even top-8 might be out of reach next year as everyone steps up their game, the new tyres come in, even more excellent drivers join the series, racing gets harder/bumpier, and all those hard-won marginal gains become even more important. As I say, I hope I'm wrong and I promise to buy you and your Dad a good few beers when you inevitably do finish in the top-6 next season mate. I'll eat my words and be very pleased about it! Best of luck with your pre-season prep and with next year's racing.
We talked about these things mid-season didn't we, and I know you didn't agree then on that specific point about 'small' teams being in with a shout of getting competitive results; so its good to have your view here on this thread for anyone reading it with an interest in the TTCR series - especially the really helpful info on budget.
But I stand by my view about the novice driver thing, and the two examples you've given are both drivers who I personally consider to be pretty serious racers, one of them came into this season with a sponsored drive and the other came in with previous success and wins in another single-make series over multiple seasons. But I guess I'm risking getting into the semantics of what constitutes a 'proper team' vs lad & dad drivers which is a completely different discussion and not a hill I need to die on haha. I'm also very possibly simply wrong about this point!!
I just feel that the way this year went, and with how its stacking up next year, you will struggle to trouble the top-6 next season - for the reasons we've both mentioned above. I'm sure you know I mean no disrespect by that, as you're a cracking racer and I hope I'm wrong (you know I'll be cheering you on when watching the TT's next season). But I just think the top-6 or even top-8 might be out of reach next year as everyone steps up their game, the new tyres come in, even more excellent drivers join the series, racing gets harder/bumpier, and all those hard-won marginal gains become even more important. As I say, I hope I'm wrong and I promise to buy you and your Dad a good few beers when you inevitably do finish in the top-6 next season mate. I'll eat my words and be very pleased about it! Best of luck with your pre-season prep and with next year's racing.
Decent thread this, but needed to add my opinion and agree with Dave on this
Both myself and Carl had multiple podiums and we ran the cars ourselves, albeit with help from friends, we also built the cars ourselves and this being the first race cars id ever built
appreciate id done a fair bit of racing previously, but as others have suggested, seat time and understanding where others are faster and then implementing that is what you need to do to be at the sharp end in these one make series
next year will be even harder, with a lot of fast drivers coming in, and quite possibly the most competitive one make series in the country
Both myself and Carl had multiple podiums and we ran the cars ourselves, albeit with help from friends, we also built the cars ourselves and this being the first race cars id ever built
appreciate id done a fair bit of racing previously, but as others have suggested, seat time and understanding where others are faster and then implementing that is what you need to do to be at the sharp end in these one make series
next year will be even harder, with a lot of fast drivers coming in, and quite possibly the most competitive one make series in the country
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