ECM change - possibly
Discussion
With the issues I had during the final stages of build/prep for IVA etc in mind, I did wonder about the cost and practicability of swapping out my GM ECM to a Motec system, especially as there appears to be far more Motec tuning experts out there in the UK than GM.
Anyone got an opinion?
Anyone got an opinion?
Hi Keith
Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
DHGTR said:
Hi Keith
Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
Thanks Dave - I will ring them - anyone in particular?Think i mentioned it before but there is a great tuner in Redditch.
http://www.protuner.co.uk
Tuned my LS2 on GM ECU usingEFI Live
No issues whatsoever after the tune and great to hear the car up on the rollers at full scream, something we don't have the pleasure of very often.
Dave
DHGTR said:
Hi Keith
Greg the man in charge and tuner , Simon the man with spanners
Greg has engineering qualifications from uni and everything hahaha.
Only a small outfit, tend to work from midday till VERY late!!!
Nice guys, wrap up warm if you go down there :-)
Dave
Greg is a great guy, highly recommended. Greg the man in charge and tuner , Simon the man with spanners
Greg has engineering qualifications from uni and everything hahaha.
Only a small outfit, tend to work from midday till VERY late!!!
Nice guys, wrap up warm if you go down there :-)
Dave
Vixpy1 said:
DHGTR said:
Hi Keith
Greg the man in charge and tuner , Simon the man with spanners
Greg has engineering qualifications from uni and everything hahaha.
Only a small outfit, tend to work from midday till VERY late!!!
Nice guys, wrap up warm if you go down there :-)
Dave
Greg is a great guy, highly recommended. Greg the man in charge and tuner , Simon the man with spanners
Greg has engineering qualifications from uni and everything hahaha.
Only a small outfit, tend to work from midday till VERY late!!!
Nice guys, wrap up warm if you go down there :-)
Dave
Naah, unlike Motec and others, GM require the map to be downloaded, tweeked, then uploaded to the ECM before trying the new map adjustments.
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
3Dee said:
Naah, unlike Motec and others, GM require the map to be downloaded, tweeked, then uploaded to the ECM before trying the new map adjustments.
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
Greg uses EFI Live.... whether as Dave noted above the tuner can influence certain parameters on the fly, but then can only write the changes to the ECU, I'm not sure? I'm trying to remember what was being tweaked when my car was tuned on Brunters, but the grey matter is failing me Either way, I believe Greg's done a lot of work with GM ECUs and would be a very good local guy to connect with, before you go down the road of swapping out the management system.HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
356Speedster said:
3Dee said:
Naah, unlike Motec and others, GM require the map to be downloaded, tweeked, then uploaded to the ECM before trying the new map adjustments.
HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
Greg uses EFI Live.... whether as Dave noted above the tuner can influence certain parameters on the fly, but then can only write the changes to the ECU, I'm not sure? I'm trying to remember what was being tweaked when my car was tuned on Brunters, but the grey matter is failing me Either way, I believe Greg's done a lot of work with GM ECUs and would be a very good local guy to connect with, before you go down the road of swapping out the management system.HP Tuners and EFI Live can monitor and record loads of things during running, but actual changes to the map require a stop so are not real-time - certainly not for HP tuners, don't thinks so for EFI. It's a GM thing!
Update... Mixed feelings.
Well after deciding to give the E38 one more go, and several months of waiting, I took my car up to Redditch for tuning.
I had given a very detailed account of the tuning history, challenges and issues to the tuner when I originally booked in feb, and he seemed confident that he could sort it.
I arrived to find another car on the dyno and it was almost an hr of hanging around before it became my turn.
It was fun getting the Ultima backed up onto on the rollers given the small workshop, and drift-cars lying around, but we made it.
Plugs came out to be checked as well as compression test for all cyls which were good.
Then everything got hooked up and I was informed that they would download the current HPT map to EFI Live to convert as a starting point.
A snag was hit immediately.... the map operating system would not be recognised by EFI. It appears that the previous tuner had uploaded a modified version and since EFI in NZ could not be contacted for support there was no solution for the day.
The tuner was not confident using HPI, and so the session was concluded with a 15 minute dyno session to see what we had.
At this point I dived for cover as I hate seeing my pride-and-joy having its nuts revved off!
The result was surprising.... too rich for much of the curve, too lean at the end, and some knocking (which I could not hear).
but... 560bhp at around 6.2k revs. Not too shabby for something with a poor tune. We quickly backed off the timing to minimise the pinking problem for the time being.
I was told that the only ultimate option was to replace the complete operating system with an EFI one and to start retuning from scratch, but that may take several days...
Then the crunch came as I was obliged to hand over some not inconsiderably dosh, but I didn't quibble... he could not book me this month.. earliest date in june! JUNE?
And so... more dosh parted with, and no successful conclusion.... very disappointing!
To be fair to the tuner, he was friendly, appeared knowledgeable, and relatively careful, but OH-Boy! What I found disconcerting was that he spent rather more of his time multi-tasking by answering his mobile, talking & texting than I felt comfortable with! ...but hey! I am old-fashioned... presumably this is the norm for a small business these days!
And so, what do I think?
Well, it was reasonably clear that this tuner seemed to know his stuff (if he could just stay off the damn mobile for a bit) , but obviously my particular scenario threw him a little... I suspect he could do a good job given the time and resource availability. BUT since he seems to be so popular with the drift boys, his diary is booked for months.
...and I am therefore in a bit of a dilemma, since I had intended to get the most out of my ownership these coming months, a track day is booked in May and I am off to France in July.
Do I wait and hope (not a good track record so far) that this is concluded properly in June, or do I look for a replacement ECM system (motec or summat else) where expertise/ tuning capability is hopefully more available????
... I am aware that many have had good outcomes with GM ECMs, but it seems the minute you get a non-standard problem in the UK, your options are very few, and resources are scant at best.
Well after deciding to give the E38 one more go, and several months of waiting, I took my car up to Redditch for tuning.
I had given a very detailed account of the tuning history, challenges and issues to the tuner when I originally booked in feb, and he seemed confident that he could sort it.
I arrived to find another car on the dyno and it was almost an hr of hanging around before it became my turn.
It was fun getting the Ultima backed up onto on the rollers given the small workshop, and drift-cars lying around, but we made it.
Plugs came out to be checked as well as compression test for all cyls which were good.
Then everything got hooked up and I was informed that they would download the current HPT map to EFI Live to convert as a starting point.
A snag was hit immediately.... the map operating system would not be recognised by EFI. It appears that the previous tuner had uploaded a modified version and since EFI in NZ could not be contacted for support there was no solution for the day.
The tuner was not confident using HPI, and so the session was concluded with a 15 minute dyno session to see what we had.
At this point I dived for cover as I hate seeing my pride-and-joy having its nuts revved off!
The result was surprising.... too rich for much of the curve, too lean at the end, and some knocking (which I could not hear).
but... 560bhp at around 6.2k revs. Not too shabby for something with a poor tune. We quickly backed off the timing to minimise the pinking problem for the time being.
I was told that the only ultimate option was to replace the complete operating system with an EFI one and to start retuning from scratch, but that may take several days...
Then the crunch came as I was obliged to hand over some not inconsiderably dosh, but I didn't quibble... he could not book me this month.. earliest date in june! JUNE?
And so... more dosh parted with, and no successful conclusion.... very disappointing!
To be fair to the tuner, he was friendly, appeared knowledgeable, and relatively careful, but OH-Boy! What I found disconcerting was that he spent rather more of his time multi-tasking by answering his mobile, talking & texting than I felt comfortable with! ...but hey! I am old-fashioned... presumably this is the norm for a small business these days!
And so, what do I think?
Well, it was reasonably clear that this tuner seemed to know his stuff (if he could just stay off the damn mobile for a bit) , but obviously my particular scenario threw him a little... I suspect he could do a good job given the time and resource availability. BUT since he seems to be so popular with the drift boys, his diary is booked for months.
...and I am therefore in a bit of a dilemma, since I had intended to get the most out of my ownership these coming months, a track day is booked in May and I am off to France in July.
Do I wait and hope (not a good track record so far) that this is concluded properly in June, or do I look for a replacement ECM system (motec or summat else) where expertise/ tuning capability is hopefully more available????
... I am aware that many have had good outcomes with GM ECMs, but it seems the minute you get a non-standard problem in the UK, your options are very few, and resources are scant at best.
Edited by 3Dee on Wednesday 9th April 10:34
Looks like multitasking is becoming something we have to live with but it ia a real pain. I would imagine that someone doing a complex task (?) such as tuning, considering the worth of the stuff he is working on, would have the courage or decency to turn off or put his phone on mute during the time he is working. Reserving certain time periods to answer the phone, texting and telling people this way of doing things is not too difficult I would imagine.
Guess I'm really an old git now....
Guess I'm really an old git now....
Hi Keith, the calls drop right off after 5pm and i was there till 1 am. Very happy with my result.
June is 6 weeks away, will you get a new ecu and software bought, fitted and setup by then? Plus you have the extra expense of the new gear.
Greg will do it, my original 'custom' map apparently was one of the worst he had ever seen and so he started afresh, it was a long day but worth it.
dave
June is 6 weeks away, will you get a new ecu and software bought, fitted and setup by then? Plus you have the extra expense of the new gear.
Greg will do it, my original 'custom' map apparently was one of the worst he had ever seen and so he started afresh, it was a long day but worth it.
dave
I am inclined to agree with you Dave. The transition to another ECM type is fraught with potentially massive cost with stuff to change like the FBW throttle to mention only one I believe, and the possibility of a whole bag of new problems maybe, knowing my luck.
Pity I have to change to EFI though, as I have a full HPTuners setup on my laptop etc, but given the lack of 'experts' round here, I don't have a lot of choice!
.. I had a moment of madness and explored the possibility of trying myself, but since this thing is based on Speed density where the complication is magnifies, I took a look at some tutorials and fell about laughing! You need a degree in rocket-science as well as experience in detailed calc conversion mechanisms it seems, so I am ooot!
And so the wait begins... until 11th June, which seems years...
Underlying all this is also the concern I have as to the health of my E38, because, as reported a while back, I have never managed to get the Knock-sensors to work or even report to the ECU. I have changed both of them with known good ones, check the continuity of the wiring from KS plug to ECU plug, which all seem fine to me, yet still the E38 does not register knock even with the sensitivity wound up. And there is knock - I can make it pink under heavy load, so I can only conclude the E38 is not right. No error messages... If only I can make this do what would be expected.
Had thought about getting another known good one to compare, but where from in the UK? I thought they would be relatively easy to get hold of, but I am having trouble there. Seems the US is the only place, which is a bit surprising considering the proliferation of UK GM v8s in the UK?
Pity I have to change to EFI though, as I have a full HPTuners setup on my laptop etc, but given the lack of 'experts' round here, I don't have a lot of choice!
.. I had a moment of madness and explored the possibility of trying myself, but since this thing is based on Speed density where the complication is magnifies, I took a look at some tutorials and fell about laughing! You need a degree in rocket-science as well as experience in detailed calc conversion mechanisms it seems, so I am ooot!
And so the wait begins... until 11th June, which seems years...
Underlying all this is also the concern I have as to the health of my E38, because, as reported a while back, I have never managed to get the Knock-sensors to work or even report to the ECU. I have changed both of them with known good ones, check the continuity of the wiring from KS plug to ECU plug, which all seem fine to me, yet still the E38 does not register knock even with the sensitivity wound up. And there is knock - I can make it pink under heavy load, so I can only conclude the E38 is not right. No error messages... If only I can make this do what would be expected.
Had thought about getting another known good one to compare, but where from in the UK? I thought they would be relatively easy to get hold of, but I am having trouble there. Seems the US is the only place, which is a bit surprising considering the proliferation of UK GM v8s in the UK?
I used Motec on a drag bike project, they are good but you have to pay to unlock features as you go, in the end it starts to grate having to shell out another £2-300 quid to enable a feature.
Stick to a well a known package that doesn't need software codes to paid for after initial purchase.
OMEX, GEMS, DTA, Haltech etc.
Stick to a well a known package that doesn't need software codes to paid for after initial purchase.
OMEX, GEMS, DTA, Haltech etc.
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