Rebellion Undressing
Discussion
V8Dom said:
That is exactly a solution my son-in-law, who is an engineer and specialist in hydrodynamics, and I have been thinking about, should the cooling not be sufficient in high temperature environments.hedgefinder said:
its odd, but I have asked on a couple of occasions on how all these mods have effected the cars handling?? increasing the track etc etc
but no one has answered as yet...
I guess the only who can reply to those questions is the owner/driver of the vehicle, but I don't recall reading his comments on here for a loooong time...but no one has answered as yet...
From what I can tell in the pics, the standard chassis was nothing more than a starting point, all the pick up points& the geo is substantially changed, so I guess it feels quite different. The pushrod suspension is nicely done.
IMO, this car is a great future design concept of the Ultima we all know & love. If this was the next stage evolution of the brand, I'd be raiding the piggy bank & waving the proceeds at Ted
IMO, this car is a great future design concept of the Ultima we all know & love. If this was the next stage evolution of the brand, I'd be raiding the piggy bank & waving the proceeds at Ted
hedgefinder said:
think he has gone as far as perfection would allow...
I personally think if the factory took the car as a pointer for future development they wouldnt go far wrong.... should seriously increase sales too!
...and would add exponentially to the price, hence reducing the potential customer base dramatically.I personally think if the factory took the car as a pointer for future development they wouldnt go far wrong.... should seriously increase sales too!
Swings and roundabouts
356Speedster said:
From what I can tell in the pics, the standard chassis was nothing more than a starting point, all the pick up points& the geo is substantially changed, so I guess it feels quite different. The pushrod suspension is nicely done.
IMO, this car is a great future design concept of the Ultima we all know & love. If this was the next stage evolution of the brand, I'd be raiding the piggy bank & waving the proceeds at Ted
By way of balance, whilst they may have changed everything bar the chassis, other than being entered into Gumball type of events has it really 'improved' it? ie. can it be proved empirically?IMO, this car is a great future design concept of the Ultima we all know & love. If this was the next stage evolution of the brand, I'd be raiding the piggy bank & waving the proceeds at Ted
I'd agree 100% that it looks dramatic in the vein of a 'hypercar', but that doesn't necessarily make it better? Look at the Aspira
(no offence Craig);)As I said early in the thread, the sale price (500k Euro I believe) is more than 5 times that of a standard build and well into established supercar maker territory. Would take a brave soul to part with that sort of dosh for it - especially when words like reliability/usability are mentioned.
Before I get accused (again
) of being a factory fanboy, I do think that the cars could benefit for an aesthetic refresh. But I can understand the factory's reluctance to do so from an 'if it ain't broke' perspective given the cost of designing/testing/making new body molds.Of course it's impossible to say how many they 'might' sell if the design were changed. Could be more, could be less, but with sales of GTR and Can-Am in their current guise still strong (I believe), then there's no real catalyst to change.
Stig said:
By way of balance, whilst they may have changed everything bar the chassis, other than being entered into Gumball type of events has it really 'improved' it? ie. can it be proved empirically?
I'd agree 100% that it looks dramatic in the vein of a 'hypercar', but that doesn't necessarily make it better? Look at the Aspira (no offence Craig);)
As I said early in the thread, the sale price (500k Euro I believe) is more than 5 times that of a standard build and well into established supercar maker territory. Would take a brave soul to part with that sort of dosh for it - especially when words like reliability/usability are mentioned.
Before I get accused (again ) of being a factory fanboy, I do think that the cars could benefit for an aesthetic refresh. But I can understand the factory's reluctance to do so from an 'if it ain't broke' perspective given the cost of designing/testing/making new body molds.
Of course it's impossible to say how many they 'might' sell if the design were changed. Could be more, could be less, but with sales of GTR and Can-Am in their current guise still strong (I believe), then there's no real catalyst to change.
The factory has made a Group C homage, you take it or you leave it. It is what it is.I'd agree 100% that it looks dramatic in the vein of a 'hypercar', but that doesn't necessarily make it better? Look at the Aspira
(no offence Craig);)As I said early in the thread, the sale price (500k Euro I believe) is more than 5 times that of a standard build and well into established supercar maker territory. Would take a brave soul to part with that sort of dosh for it - especially when words like reliability/usability are mentioned.
Before I get accused (again
) of being a factory fanboy, I do think that the cars could benefit for an aesthetic refresh. But I can understand the factory's reluctance to do so from an 'if it ain't broke' perspective given the cost of designing/testing/making new body molds.Of course it's impossible to say how many they 'might' sell if the design were changed. Could be more, could be less, but with sales of GTR and Can-Am in their current guise still strong (I believe), then there's no real catalyst to change.
Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
F.C. said:
The factory has made a Group C homage, you take it or you leave it. It is what it is.
Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
if that was everyones attitude then they should have stayed with the slab sided mk1 Ultima nad not bothered developing the Sport and spyder or wasting their time developing the GTR and Can am... Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
hedgefinder said:
F.C. said:
The factory has made a Group C homage, you take it or you leave it. It is what it is.
Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
if that was everyones attitude then they should have stayed with the slab sided mk1 Ultima nad not bothered developing the Sport and spyder or wasting their time developing the GTR and Can am... Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
I think that maybe you should remember that you are buying a hobby as well as a car. If you just want a car they can be purchased ready made you know.
With a hobby you are open to build something the way you want it. Some stick to the Factory standard product (and fine it is) and some want to add their own 'stamp' which may or may not be to every one else's taste.
The reason most owners buy an Ultima is to be different to everybody else on the road. Some want to be different to every other Ultima too.
The Factory are an unusual case in the Kit Car world - they are still going strong and making money (enough at least to repaint the office!). They make changes to the car as they see fit (it is their product after all) and I am sure if sales start to fall then they would need to rethink things with a more up to date product.
If you want something different you can always have a go a creating your own body or other modifications.
Paul
With a hobby you are open to build something the way you want it. Some stick to the Factory standard product (and fine it is) and some want to add their own 'stamp' which may or may not be to every one else's taste.
The reason most owners buy an Ultima is to be different to everybody else on the road. Some want to be different to every other Ultima too.
The Factory are an unusual case in the Kit Car world - they are still going strong and making money (enough at least to repaint the office!). They make changes to the car as they see fit (it is their product after all) and I am sure if sales start to fall then they would need to rethink things with a more up to date product.
If you want something different you can always have a go a creating your own body or other modifications.
Paul
hedgefinder said:
F.C. said:
The factory has made a Group C homage, you take it or you leave it. It is what it is.
Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
if that was everyones attitude then they should have stayed with the slab sided mk1 Ultima nad not bothered developing the Sport and spyder or wasting their time developing the GTR and Can am... Modifying the bodywork is only going to go away from the original Group C "replica" idea.
I don't have a problem with any modification at all, as has been said it is a personal thing, but the factory has to stop somewhere, and this is where the individual can make his/her own mark if they so wish.
I quite like the "Rebellion" but it is obviously not going to go down some of the b roads near me without losing either a side pod or its front end in short order.
But what if a company like Auto bionics built a body that used the same attach points and had the same fine finish?
As you read through there build logs you can see that many owners are putting a different touch to their cars. The interiors all seem a bit different. This would tell me that not everyone wants the same flavor, there is a market for say a retro look more Lola T70-ish or a modern look like a carbon fiber Rebellion.
As you read through there build logs you can see that many owners are putting a different touch to their cars. The interiors all seem a bit different. This would tell me that not everyone wants the same flavor, there is a market for say a retro look more Lola T70-ish or a modern look like a carbon fiber Rebellion.
crossram said:
But what if a company like Auto bionics built a body that used the same attach points and had the same fine finish?
As you read through there build logs you can see that many owners are putting a different touch to their cars. The interiors all seem a bit different. This would tell me that not everyone wants the same flavor, there is a market for say a retro look more Lola T70-ish or a modern look like a carbon fiber Rebellion.
You are probably right but at what point does the "new" body become "the same flavour" and we are at the same point all over again, The maker of such a body will As you read through there build logs you can see that many owners are putting a different touch to their cars. The interiors all seem a bit different. This would tell me that not everyone wants the same flavor, there is a market for say a retro look more Lola T70-ish or a modern look like a carbon fiber Rebellion.
Yes I'd like a "rebellionesque" look for my car (new LMP style?) but then it would need to not lose its ... "practicality
"... as a road vehicle, I'd stump up for a carbon fibre shell as well so long as there was a significant weight loss.F.C. said:
You are probably right but at what point does the "new" body become "the same flavour" and we are at the same point all over again, The maker of such a body will want need a quick return on its capital outlay and still see a market for the body a fair way into the future.
Yes I'd like a "rebellionesque" look for my car (new LMP style?) but then it would need to not lose its ... "practicality "... as a road vehicle, I'd stump up for a carbon fibre shell as well so long as there was a significant weight loss.
I have looked into the carbon shell option several times and every way I look at it it would be a style choice over substance, the weight savings made are only enough to bother anyone who is into serious competition, especially when looking at the additional cost and greater problems with repairs and structural reinforcement. A better option would be a lighter weight fibreglass shell ,but again a thinner set of body panels would slightly effect the cars daily use/quality.Yes I'd like a "rebellionesque" look for my car (new LMP style?) but then it would need to not lose its ... "practicality
"... as a road vehicle, I'd stump up for a carbon fibre shell as well so long as there was a significant weight loss.A carbon tub would be very nice as it would eliminate the need for most of the alloy sheet riveting More and more automobile constructors are going for this technology as it becomes cheaper to produce. However, for a niche constructor like Ultima, it probably remains financially unfeasible in view of the small quantities produced each year, not unless the price was increased significantly which would then probably kill the "golden egg".
More and more automobile constructors are going for this technology as it becomes cheaper to produce. However, for a niche constructor like Ultima, it probably remains financially unfeasible in view of the small quantities produced each year, not unless the price was increased significantly which would then probably kill the "golden egg".hedgefinder said:
F.C. said:
You are probably right but at what point does the "new" body become "the same flavour" and we are at the same point all over again, The maker of such a body will want need a quick return on its capital outlay and still see a market for the body a fair way into the future.
Yes I'd like a "rebellionesque" look for my car (new LMP style?) but then it would need to not lose its ... "practicality "... as a road vehicle, I'd stump up for a carbon fibre shell as well so long as there was a significant weight loss.
I have looked into the carbon shell option several times and every way I look at it it would be a style choice over substance, Yes I'd like a "rebellionesque" look for my car (new LMP style?) but then it would need to not lose its ... "practicality
"... as a road vehicle, I'd stump up for a carbon fibre shell as well so long as there was a significant weight loss.
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