Britcar rounds 7 and 8 - Oulton Park

Britcar rounds 7 and 8 - Oulton Park

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macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Monday 30th June 2014
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Hi chaps,

We are entered into rounds 7 and 8 of the Britcar Endurance Championship this coming weekend (Saturday 5th) at Oulton Park; with a few more updates on the car for this round, we are looking forward to a great weekend, especially after the pace we showed at our last outing at Donington back in May.

All the action is taking place on the Saturday, with 2 x 90 minute races and 2 x 30 minute qualifying sessions on the same day, its going to be busy!

Be good to see some other Ultima's there - I know a few of you lurk around the area.

Info on the rounds can be found here:

http://www.britcar24hr.co.uk/home/?page_id=5737

Live timing should be here during the event:

http://www.tsl-timing.com/?loc=club&season=201...

Hopefully see some of you there.

Jonny

Racing Roj

488 posts

162 months

Monday 30th June 2014
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See you there Jonny.

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
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ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
Jonny: Sorry about the graph being sideways. Cars sideways yes, graphs no. I thought you might be interested in what's being done with race level N.A. LS motors here in the states. The motor depicted is an RHS billet block with All pro heads running a 13.5 to one compression ratio on 108 octane race fuel. The motor is intended to be installed in an off road race buggy. It is equipped with a Dailey dry sump system that was developing 13.2 lbs of vacuum in the pan at 7200 rpm. The ECU is one of the new 100 series Motec systems.This was not the final run on the tuning of the motor. Eventually they got 816 hp and where able to correct the majority of the sag you see from 4700 RPM to 6000 rpm. The motor is being developed by Castilo Motorsports, who also supports Gene Hass off road racing. Yes the gentlemen with the developing F1 team. Although this particular motor is not going in their buggy. I am going to try and send some pictures of the motor hopefully not sideways. Lee

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Jonny: Sorry about the graph being sideways. Cars sideways yes, graphs no. I thought you might be interested in what's being done with race level N.A. LS motors here in the states. The motor depicted is an RHS billet block with All pro heads running a 13.5 to one compression ratio on 108 octane race fuel. The motor is intended to be installed in an off road race buggy. It is equipped with a Dailey dry sump system that was developing 13.2 lbs of vacuum in the pan at 7200 rpm. The ECU is one of the new 100 series Motec systems.This was not the final run on the tuning of the motor. Eventually they got 816 hp and where able to correct the majority of the sag you see from 4700 RPM to 6000 rpm. The motor is being developed by Castilo Motorsports, who also supports Gene Hass off road racing. Yes the gentlemen with the developing F1 team. Although this particular motor is not going in their buggy. I am going to try and send some pictures of the motor hopefully not sideways. Lee
Very nice! I have seen race engines here base don standard-ish components getting to the 750 mark, but nothing as high as this - the compression ratio is high for an LS - no wonder they have to run the 108 octane. Surprised they aren't running more vacuum, as I would guess that an engine such as this would have top rated wrist pins etc - but I guess being conservative is the best approach for the sake of another 10bhp or so.

Our issue is power:weight limits in the Britcar series - we are restricted to around 500bhp with our current weight (~1100kg) to fit into the regulations (2.6kg/hp at the wheels). Would be nice to run more - but not convinced the chassis would stand up to it on track for hours on end!

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
Certainly understand the limits placed on you by the race series. I had this info for some time and was wondering how I might bring it up, so your post about racing this week end seemed correct. By the way this motor is not a one day wonder they fully intend to run this thing in serious competition over a period of time with only inspections as to compression and main bearing checks during the year. The 13 lbs of vacuum is in the pan and as I understand it there is a bleed valve set at 14lbs. Good luck this week end, always cheer you on over the internet feeds when available. Lee

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Certainly understand the limits placed on you by the race series. I had this info for some time and was wondering how I might bring it up, so your post about racing this week end seemed correct. By the way this motor is not a one day wonder they fully intend to run this thing in serious competition over a period of time with only inspections as to compression and main bearing checks during the year. The 13 lbs of vacuum is in the pan and as I understand it there is a bleed valve set at 14lbs. Good luck this week end, always cheer you on over the internet feeds when available. Lee
Thanks Lee - appreciate the support!

That head is a work of art. The Riley boys run an LS3 motor in their Daytona Prototype and it has a similar head arrangement and produces massive power - everything I have seen on the LS series motors (sorry, engines!) suggests that these style of intakes are the way to go for big power.

That sump looks familiar too...

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
Interesting comment about the Daytona Prototypes they are limited to about 500 H.P. thru a restriction in the intake. I got to meet one of the teams last year and they knew that I had a GTR. The crew chief asked about the details of the GTR as to weight and power and said actually the GTR would out run the D.P. cars in a straight line off of a corner because of the huge torque advantage that we have. Evidently the restriction kills torque. I have a smaller version of the Kinsler shown above on my GTR and its manners at low speed and partial throttle are excellent. Far exceeding what we could do with a FAST intake and single throttle body.

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Interesting comment about the Daytona Prototypes they are limited to about 500 H.P. thru a restriction in the intake. I got to meet one of the teams last year and they knew that I had a GTR. The crew chief asked about the details of the GTR as to weight and power and said actually the GTR would out run the D.P. cars in a straight line off of a corner because of the huge torque advantage that we have. Evidently the restriction kills torque. I have a smaller version of the Kinsler shown above on my GTR and its manners at low speed and partial throttle are excellent. Far exceeding what we could do with a FAST intake and single throttle body.
The one I am referring to certainly isn't restricted! But obviously the ones at Daytona and in the Uunited Sports Car Series are. A lot of the manners are in the mapping - but obviously a well designed (and packaged!) intake makes a big difference.

The torque curve on the chart you posted speaks volumes - much higher at low RPM than the standard LS.

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Monday 30th June 2014
quotequote all
ah yes you are speaking of the track day special that Riley offers based on a D.P. style chassis and bodywork. I have seen one a couple of times that thing is evil in the very best of ways. Some folks will undoubtly beg the question of why Ultima doesn't produce something near that spec. The answer is if you have a spare $350,000 laying around go for it. Lee

V8Dom

3,546 posts

201 months

Tuesday 1st July 2014
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i will try making it guys.. sorry crept up without me realising..

Ultima away being detailed but need to sort out handling before i give it a run out

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
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Be good if you guys could swing by!

MarkWebb

983 posts

216 months

Wednesday 2nd July 2014
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Just about to install an Inglese efi stack with FAST ECU on a 550 bhp SBC hope to get better low rpm manners with this. Comments welcome as always.
Good luck at Oulton.

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Thursday 3rd July 2014
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Mark: Hope your conversion goes well. As I said above I have run a Kinsler with Motec for several years with great results. I am sure you have already taken this in to consideration but like anything pay attention to the basics up front. Start with solid unwavering fuel pressure, get the linkage right, adjustable mechanical stops on both ends. Make sure the linkage is at a 90 degrees in the middle of its throw and that it does not over center at its end of travel. Then set the TPS for zero and 100%. With all that in play start the engine and balance the two sides to each other with a unisink, don't start this project without a unisink. Then balance the throttles to each other. Go back check the bank to bank balance check the TPS it will probably be off so reset that on the computer. Find a dyno and excpect 30 H.P. at least. should be able to idle up the drive in first gear without any pogo at all. Lee

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Friday 4th July 2014
quotequote all
ROWDYRENAULT said:
Interesting comment about the Daytona Prototypes they are limited to about 500 H.P. thru a restriction in the intake. I got to meet one of the teams last year and they knew that I had a GTR. The crew chief asked about the details of the GTR as to weight and power and said actually the GTR would out run the D.P. cars in a straight line off of a corner because of the huge torque advantage that we have. Evidently the restriction kills torque. I have a smaller version of the Kinsler shown above on my GTR and its manners at low speed and partial throttle are excellent. Far exceeding what we could do with a FAST intake and single throttle body.
The one I am referring to certainly isn't restricted! But obviously the ones at Daytona and in the Uunited Sports Car Series are. A lot of the manners are in the mapping - but obviously a well designed (and packaged!) intake makes a big difference.

The torque curve on the chart you posted speaks volumes - much higher at low RPM than the standard LS.

chuntington101

5,733 posts

235 months

Friday 4th July 2014
quotequote all
whats causing the drop in torque with a stock intake vrs the ITBs? the intake cant be restricting the engine as power would still be climbing.

ROWDYRENAULT

1,270 posts

213 months

Friday 4th July 2014
quotequote all
As mentioned above most of that dip was resolved with a small reduction in trimming. Remember to a large extent these guys are looking for a high average torque figure over the anticipated rpm use range here they want the highest average between 2000 and 7200 rpm. Also this motor has the capacity to rev to perhaps 8000 rpm . But this would severally curtail the expected usable life of the motor. These guys spend on average 250 man hours on these vehicles rebuilding the chassis between each race. The don,t need engine issues on top of that. Lee

macgtech

Original Poster:

997 posts

158 months

Sunday 6th July 2014
quotequote all
So a quick update...

Testing was great on Friday - we had dry sessions in the morning and almost monsoon like conditions in the afternoon, so a great opportunity to get the setup right in both conditions. The times on the stopwatch were looking good too - with Jamie clocking a 1.37 lap in the dry on old tyres with the opposition struggling to get out of the 1.40's so things were looking very good - we also had great pace in the wet as we always do. It was quite wet...



Qualifying in the morning was tricky - a damp track that was drying was in front of us - it was too damp for slicks so we opted to take the hit in qualifying and not wreck a new set of wets, so put on some old wets knowing that we would scrub them off quickly. We came in in 7th, 0.8s off 3rd which was slightly frustrating especially as we both had traffic on our quickest laps.



The race was clearly dry, and it was action from the off. The Riley DP in 3rd saw a gap up the inside of the polesitting Mosler, got along side and tagged the Mosler, causing it to spin in front of the 2nd place Rapier wiping both cars into the barrier on the left before we had even reached the first corner - everyone braked sharply and Jamie, who started the race, piled into the back of the FF Corse Ferrari 458 in front of him, causing a fair bit of cosmetic damage to the car. The race was red flagged due to both cars blocking the track, and Jamie came in for us to bandage up the front.

We were allowed back onto the track into our original position, and from the off Jamie was fast, jumping upto 4th in the first lap and on lap two dived up the inside of the Ferrari to take 3rd. Out of cascades a rear wheel touched the grass causing the Ultima to spin, firing the car backwards into the barrier on the inside of the bend at 86 mph. Clearly that was the end of our race - we hoped we could make the repairs for race 2 but the car was stranded and couldn't get it back until the end of the 90 minutes. When it came in it wasn't pretty...



Not sure how obvious it is here but we have several holes in the rear gearbox casing, obvious clam damage but also damage to the pods, along with damage to the suspension, driveshafts and damper. Thankfully the engine still runs fine so we now need to pull the rear end apart and find out what else has suffered.

A disappointing and quick end to the weekend where we showed the pace and reliability we have been working towards - the good news is that all the upgrades we made to the car have paid off, so its now a case of assessing the damage and getting it back together as soon as possible.

It was good to see Dom and Roger over the weekend too - shame neither could make it down in their Ultima's but hopefully we can have a bit more of a gathering at a future event!