Discussion
Whilst my canam never boiled over in traffic and hot weather. The temp did increase alarmingly. Having fitted an electric water pump it never deviates from 85deg even after 2 hrs crawling into le mans in ridiculous temperatures or some spirited driving around the nurburgring in similar heat.
MarkWebb said:
Whilst my canam never boiled over in traffic and hot weather. The temp did increase alarmingly. Having fitted an electric water pump it never deviates from 85deg even after 2 hrs crawling into le mans in ridiculous temperatures or some spirited driving around the nurburgring in similar heat.
Hi Mark
I've just been looking at doing this too. Can you let me know which pump you went for and perhaps share a few pictures. I also looked at the Evans stuff, but the mixed reports have put me off.
Cheers
Andy
My LS7 runs about 84 degrees, which normally moves to nearer 90 when driving a little more enthusiastically. The main problem is when in queues or slow traffic, the temperature starts to rise and even with the fans, it doesn't really cope on a hot day. Been chatting to a few people with "similar type" cars and same problem and they've fitted water pumps to kep things moving even when going slow. This has been suggested - any thoughts?
https://www.meziere.com/ps-1144-1112-wp319s.aspx
https://www.meziere.com/ps-1144-1112-wp319s.aspx
cito quod fortis said:
My LS7 runs about 84 degrees, which normally moves to nearer 90 when driving a little more enthusiastically. The main problem is when in queues or slow traffic, the temperature starts to rise and even with the fans, it doesn't really cope on a hot day. Been chatting to a few people with "similar type" cars and same problem and they've fitted water pumps to kep things moving even when going slow. This has been suggested - any thoughts?
https://www.meziere.com/ps-1144-1112-wp319s.aspx
Electric water pumps are popular in a lot of the LS7 and LS3 powered race cars.https://www.meziere.com/ps-1144-1112-wp319s.aspx
Seems everyone who has posted so far is running LS motors I'm running a SBC . I've got the coolant in now . So let's see what happens had car running up to 95 degrees so far on tick over it seemed to take longer to get there . My aim is to be able to sit in a traffic jam without been in a steam train . Once rolling at 15 mph no heating issues . Unfortunately were I live suffers with traffic jams hence causing me issues nxt step is to remove heat from under the clam
The problem at tickover in traffic jams is lack of flow. Changing the coolant material will not solve that.
For this reason I looked at fitting an electric pump on my LS6. I came to the conclusion that Meziere have the best range of pumps, including remote versions with thermostat, but there is little or nothing available as a controller. That led me to the Davies Craig solution as their controller is good at reducing warm-up time, will also control the rad fan and manages run-on after shut down for both the pump and fan if needed.
So I thought to combine a DC controller with a Meziere pump. No go. During warm-up the DC controller reduces the flow rate by a reduced voltage that is less than that required by the Meziere to run at all. So, I have gone with a Davies Craig total solution.
As the DC is a remote pump, the heavy pump and manifold on the front of an LS may be ditched. I now have a lightweight manifold in alu tube although Meziere do some neat adaptors to fit water pipes direct to the block.
Last point to share is that DC recommended not combining an electric water pump with Evans fluid. “Evans Heavy Duty Waterless Coolant has a viscosity of 2.3cp @ 100c and water’s viscosity is 0.347 @ 82.2c. This is quite substantial and the EWP's overall performance (flow) may be affected as the Evans coolant will draw more amps and may not allow the EWP to reach the required flow to cool your engine satisfactorily under normal conditions. “
Sometimes the researching seems to take longer than the building.
For this reason I looked at fitting an electric pump on my LS6. I came to the conclusion that Meziere have the best range of pumps, including remote versions with thermostat, but there is little or nothing available as a controller. That led me to the Davies Craig solution as their controller is good at reducing warm-up time, will also control the rad fan and manages run-on after shut down for both the pump and fan if needed.
So I thought to combine a DC controller with a Meziere pump. No go. During warm-up the DC controller reduces the flow rate by a reduced voltage that is less than that required by the Meziere to run at all. So, I have gone with a Davies Craig total solution.
As the DC is a remote pump, the heavy pump and manifold on the front of an LS may be ditched. I now have a lightweight manifold in alu tube although Meziere do some neat adaptors to fit water pipes direct to the block.
Last point to share is that DC recommended not combining an electric water pump with Evans fluid. “Evans Heavy Duty Waterless Coolant has a viscosity of 2.3cp @ 100c and water’s viscosity is 0.347 @ 82.2c. This is quite substantial and the EWP's overall performance (flow) may be affected as the Evans coolant will draw more amps and may not allow the EWP to reach the required flow to cool your engine satisfactorily under normal conditions. “
Sometimes the researching seems to take longer than the building.
Max_Torque said:
Funny stuff!
I looked at the Evans stuff and while I'm sure it'll do no harm, I was told by a chemical engineer friend that it's also of limited benefit over a properly dosed water / anti-freeze setup.FWIW... My LS3 runs at 89deg solidly. Std GM water pump used, but I can't be 100% on the 'stat spec, it might be rated a smidge lower than std GM. I run a single expansion tank setup (not the twin tank setup used by the factory) and I have slightly larger Pacet fans on the std radiator. My only other mod is that the fans are switched by the ECU, rather than the in-rad switch. After sitting in baking traffic in Le Mans & Germany, it's never gone over 99deg (fans cut in at 98deg) on the road, or 102'ish on track.
I hope that helps.
My engine is SBC I have a block mounted CSR water pump and I use a davies craig system to control it. As said above it works perfectly controlling the engine temp to 85 deg or whatever you set it at. it also controls the fans and runs the cooling on for 2 mins after engine shut off. stat is removed obviously. No problems with it in 8000 miles. The davies craig system does just reduce the voltage to the pump but it seems to work fine. A PWM system would be better. At one stage I did have the temp set at 75 deg (more power) however the system was not able to get the temp down to that in hot weather (South of France) and it resulted in the fans running all the time even when driving at motorway speeds. I pulled over and changed the set point to 85 deg and problem solved. I guess that this is an indication of the marginality of the rad fitted to these cars.
Edited by MarkWebb on Monday 4th August 19:24
Looking at everyone's posts the issue seems to be flow on the pump . When I had water and coolant in the car iff it sat on the drive on tick over it would gain heat and boil over . But iff I took the rear clamb off and sat on tickover the car sat at a constant 70 ish degree . This is making me think its a heat soak issue . I've put the Evans in to try and gain xtra time stationary . Soon as I'm doing 15 mph moving in clear air temperatures drop like a stone .
MarkWebb said:
I guess that this is an indication of the marginality of the rad fitted to these cars.
not really! Heat rejection is Mdot.Cp.DeltaT where:Mdot is the mass flow (or the mass of working fluid moving through your radiator
Cp is the specific heat capacity of the working fluid
DeltaT is the difference in temperature between the hot source and the cold sink.
Hence, trying to reject the engine heat with a much lower delta T is going to need a corresponding increase in mass flow, which of course doens't change much. I.E. as deltaT is reduced (by running your coolant system at a mean lower temperature it becomes increasingly difficult to reject the engines heat to the atmosphere. Certainly no OEM cooling system will be able to do that! (Most OEM systems are these days rated to around 110/115degC top hose temp)
Max_Torque said:
MarkWebb said:
I guess that this is an indication of the marginality of the rad fitted to these cars.
not really! Heat rejection is Mdot.Cp.DeltaT where:Mdot is the mass flow (or the mass of working fluid moving through your radiator
Cp is the specific heat capacity of the working fluid
DeltaT is the difference in temperature between the hot source and the cold sink.
Hence, trying to reject the engine heat with a much lower delta T is going to need a corresponding increase in mass flow, which of course doens't change much. I.E. as deltaT is reduced (by running your coolant system at a mean lower temperature it becomes increasingly difficult to reject the engines heat to the atmosphere. Certainly no OEM cooling system will be able to do that! (Most OEM systems are these days rated to around 110/115degC top hose temp)
Is this correct?
Steve
Steve_D said:
I don't know the science of these things but have to assume that if you take a big V8 and stick it the other end of the car from the radiator you are going to increase the frictional losses (and other factors I don't understand) such that the mechanical pump can't cope when ticking over in traffic.
Is this correct?
Steve
Marginally, but I wouldn't have thought that the effect is significant - its reasonable sized hose/pipe - losses through the rad will likely be a fair bit higher.Is this correct?
Steve
The other thing to consider is that in a Corvette or similar front engined car, when the fans are on, there is far more air movement/replacement in the engine bay - we simply do not get that.
Putting a fan on the back of the engine bay could be interesting...
Steve_D said:
I don't know the science of these things but have to assume that if you take a big V8 and stick it the other end of the car from the radiator you are going to increase the frictional losses (and other factors I don't understand) such that the mechanical pump can't cope when ticking over in traffic.
Is this correct?
Steve
Pretty much no difference actually! Because the cooling system really isn't moving very much water at idle, so the pressure lose is tiny, and so the flow is pretty much the same. The reason a car "overheats" at idle is because the radiator isn't rejecting enough heat, NOT because the water pump isn't spinning fast enoughIs this correct?
Steve
(the only exception to this rule is when you have massively high engine metal temps before you slow to a stop/idle. Say you're lapping a race track, your engine will have been producing a lot of power so it will have elevated metal temps. Then you pull into the pits and stop the car, leaving the engine idling, and water flow falls right down. Under this (unusual) circumstance, the reduced water flow can result in localised boiling in the engine, as the "hot metal" transfers its heat into slowly moving water)
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff