Gtr - new stronger frame vs older frame ??
Discussion
Both. If you check the factory update thread in the stickies you'll see.
"NEW UPRATED ULTIMA CHASSIS RELEASED
The Ultima GTR and Ultima Can-Am chassis is improved
substantially with a redesign and update in 2013, resulting in a
chassis with improved torsional rigidity and occupant safety to
market leading standards."
I'm one of the first with the chassis I believe but nowhere near completion at the moment so can't comment on the handling. Its the GTR in the pics from the show.
"NEW UPRATED ULTIMA CHASSIS RELEASED
The Ultima GTR and Ultima Can-Am chassis is improved
substantially with a redesign and update in 2013, resulting in a
chassis with improved torsional rigidity and occupant safety to
market leading standards."
I'm one of the first with the chassis I believe but nowhere near completion at the moment so can't comment on the handling. Its the GTR in the pics from the show.
corvettedave said:
Gtr - new stronger frame vs older frame ?? - peeps thoughts on new frame, why was it changed?, for crash safety or better handling ? or ?? and is there really that much difference in-terms of safety, handling etc ??
cheers
dave
Pretty subjective regarding occupant safety, It's not like they would ever be subject to Euro NCAP testing is it? And if they were I doubt they would score highly cheers
dave
.Not an airbag in sight, any with four point harnesses are risking serious internal injury in an accident over that of a six point.
They may have done better to install inertia belts for road use like the Noble M12 or Lotus Exige et al.
On the other hand torsional rigidity will undoubtedly make a difference on track for a track focussed driver.
On the road, possibly but I suspect you would have to be driving illegally to notice.
Also if you are serious about handling then a rose jointed set up will make the most of the new found rigidity.
Remember the "old chassis" with bushed suspension arms is a damn fine handling car.
Would I have the new chassis?
Absolutely.
I am considering a new build for myself over continually modding mine.
Storer said:
With the roll bar above the windscreen so close to my head I would not like to wear inertia reel belts. My belts are firmly done up and tight and I have padding on the bar, just in case.
It's no good your internal organs being fine if your head is pulp!
Paul
a majority don't have the belts done up correctly when driving on the road and 4 or 6 point harness are highly dangerous if not adjusted properly.It's no good your internal organs being fine if your head is pulp!
Paul
of cause if your head can hit the front roll bar then thats a different matter... for me its the side roll bar that i worry about most in my Noble
From bitter experience I would say proper use of Seat Belts far outweighs any other aspect. All the medical professionals who I was treated by said the fact they were properly done up (TIGHT) probably meant a big reduction in our injuries. And fortunately they were done up very tight.
Just my 2p worth.
Just my 2p worth.
The factory supplied chassis coped very well with my 135mph crash at knockhill, my daughter was in the car with me at the time and she only had a broken toenail, I can only say how confident I would be to have my most precious things in a fast car when built by Ultima. It isn't perfect but it was damn good, never been so glad to see those you care about walk easily out and about, and the frame damage was very limited to rear end damage. And if it can be made stronger, well that's even better. Crashes should be avoided at all costs and so development should be pursued, but dont forget where each species came from. I would buy another ultima no doubt in my mind from the safety perspective.
Thevet said:
The factory supplied chassis coped very well with my 135mph crash at knockhill, my daughter was in the car with me at the time and she only had a broken toenail, I can only say how confident I would be to have my most precious things in a fast car when built by Ultima. It isn't perfect but it was damn good, never been so glad to see those you care about walk easily out and about, and the frame damage was very limited to rear end damage. And if it can be made stronger, well that's even better. Crashes should be avoided at all costs and so development should be pursued, but dont forget where each species came from. I would buy another ultima no doubt in my mind from the safety perspective.
Sorry to hear of your crash but which chassis had you built on?all very interesting, iam building mine on the old frame, i got it 6 months before the change over, which is a little pissing off, but that's life lol
seems like alot guys like to crash there gtr's lol, iam now getting worried iam building a death trap lol, iam going for the 700 ls7 engine, so not looking good for me lol
dave
seems like alot guys like to crash there gtr's lol, iam now getting worried iam building a death trap lol, iam going for the 700 ls7 engine, so not looking good for me lol
dave
I'm also building on the older chassis, having bought it before knowledge of the changeover. With the important caveat that I don't really know what I'm talking about... my guess is that no longer providing the option of the removable chassis bracing over the engine bay is one of the biggest contributors to increased rigidity of the new chassis.
The chap who put a BMW V12 in his ultima, did some really interesting testing on the chassis and where and why it flexed, with some basic changes making a big difference if I recall - I will see if I can dig out the link but I know it has been posted on this forum a number of times before.
I'm pretty sure my driving ability is no where near exploring the differences between old and new chassis, but for the fun/challenge of it, and once the build is suitably progressed, I would be interest in exploring additional bracing - particularly if it could be added without welding to the chassis.
The chap who put a BMW V12 in his ultima, did some really interesting testing on the chassis and where and why it flexed, with some basic changes making a big difference if I recall - I will see if I can dig out the link but I know it has been posted on this forum a number of times before.
I'm pretty sure my driving ability is no where near exploring the differences between old and new chassis, but for the fun/challenge of it, and once the build is suitably progressed, I would be interest in exploring additional bracing - particularly if it could be added without welding to the chassis.
Guys
For those who are still building just something to think about.
Despite the saying 'there is no substitute for horses' you can have too much power to drive your Ultima hard even if you go on the track.
You need a standard engine where possible, ie. no high lift cams etc to make it tractable as you will spend over 90% on the road.
Remapping is possible but there can be problems with emissions and passing your MOT when it's due.
I know some will say its about how you use your right foot.
Even if you have had some racing experience or some serious trackday time, with more than 550hp and the low weight of the car in my opinion this is more than enough for most of us to get the best out of the car.
The car I bought has an LS7 and has been remapped to 600hp and the emissions are very high so I have a problem at MOT time.
I would have been happy with the 505hp out of the crate.
I await differences of opinion.
Roj
For those who are still building just something to think about.
Despite the saying 'there is no substitute for horses' you can have too much power to drive your Ultima hard even if you go on the track.
You need a standard engine where possible, ie. no high lift cams etc to make it tractable as you will spend over 90% on the road.
Remapping is possible but there can be problems with emissions and passing your MOT when it's due.
I know some will say its about how you use your right foot.
Even if you have had some racing experience or some serious trackday time, with more than 550hp and the low weight of the car in my opinion this is more than enough for most of us to get the best out of the car.
The car I bought has an LS7 and has been remapped to 600hp and the emissions are very high so I have a problem at MOT time.
I would have been happy with the 505hp out of the crate.
I await differences of opinion.
Roj
When I ordered my Ultima, all the performance figures quoted by the factory were for a Sport powered by a stock 350cu in. motor, about 355hp. That car would out perform anything on the road, so that is the engine I fitted to my car. For a car that is used on public roads, this is more than enough power!
Pedders said:
I'm also building on the older chassis, having bought it before knowledge of the changeover. With the important caveat that I don't really know what I'm talking about... my guess is that no longer providing the option of the removable chassis bracing over the engine bay is one of the biggest contributors to increased rigidity of the new chassis.
The chap who put a BMW V12 in his ultima, did some really interesting testing on the chassis and where and why it flexed, with some basic changes making a big difference if I recall - I will see if I can dig out the link but I know it has been posted on this forum a number of times before.
I'm pretty sure my driving ability is no where near exploring the differences between old and new chassis, but for the fun/challenge of it, and once the build is suitably progressed, I would be interest in exploring additional bracing - particularly if it could be added without welding to the chassis.
very interesting, i also thought at a later date, maybe add in some extra bars like they have and also weld up the engine bay barsThe chap who put a BMW V12 in his ultima, did some really interesting testing on the chassis and where and why it flexed, with some basic changes making a big difference if I recall - I will see if I can dig out the link but I know it has been posted on this forum a number of times before.
I'm pretty sure my driving ability is no where near exploring the differences between old and new chassis, but for the fun/challenge of it, and once the build is suitably progressed, I would be interest in exploring additional bracing - particularly if it could be added without welding to the chassis.
but like u say, we will never explore the car anywhere close too knowing a difference
cheers
dave
Racing Roj said:
Guys
For those who are still building just something to think about.
Despite the saying 'there is no substitute for horses' you can have too much power to drive your Ultima hard even if you go on the track.
You need a standard engine where possible, ie. no high lift cams etc to make it tractable as you will spend over 90% on the road.
Remapping is possible but there can be problems with emissions and passing your MOT when it's due.
I know some will say its about how you use your right foot.
Even if you have had some racing experience or some serious trackday time, with more than 550hp and the low weight of the car in my opinion this is more than enough for most of us to get the best out of the car.
The car I bought has an LS7 and has been remapped to 600hp and the emissions are very high so I have a problem at MOT time.
I would have been happy with the 505hp out of the crate.
I await differences of opinion.
Roj
very good point and i think you are 110% correct, but my heart whats 700 bhp lol, so that's what it will get lol, mad, but that's what makes me feel alive being scared to drive a very fast car lolFor those who are still building just something to think about.
Despite the saying 'there is no substitute for horses' you can have too much power to drive your Ultima hard even if you go on the track.
You need a standard engine where possible, ie. no high lift cams etc to make it tractable as you will spend over 90% on the road.
Remapping is possible but there can be problems with emissions and passing your MOT when it's due.
I know some will say its about how you use your right foot.
Even if you have had some racing experience or some serious trackday time, with more than 550hp and the low weight of the car in my opinion this is more than enough for most of us to get the best out of the car.
The car I bought has an LS7 and has been remapped to 600hp and the emissions are very high so I have a problem at MOT time.
I would have been happy with the 505hp out of the crate.
I await differences of opinion.
Roj
The power question seems too rationnal. One strength of the Ultima is that we have the flexibility to put the power we want. You can make it an excellent sport car, a super car or an hyper car. Even if we quickly reach the super car level.
I personally haven't purchased an Ultima to commute on the road, but to visit tracks and go to special events. There are places to have fun and on the road the right foot must stay gentle. A rational purchase would be a normal mass-produced vehicle, a pile of cheap components where most of your money goes to distribution and marketing.
My personnal goal it to target the McLaren F1 power level, as it is one of the first hypercar and the one that was released when I got my driving license. It was still a pure beast without excessive electronic.
I personally haven't purchased an Ultima to commute on the road, but to visit tracks and go to special events. There are places to have fun and on the road the right foot must stay gentle. A rational purchase would be a normal mass-produced vehicle, a pile of cheap components where most of your money goes to distribution and marketing.
My personnal goal it to target the McLaren F1 power level, as it is one of the first hypercar and the one that was released when I got my driving license. It was still a pure beast without excessive electronic.
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