Info advice

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Discussion

spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Sunday 12th October 2014
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Hi I have been looking at the GTR for the passed few weeks and have a few questions I would like to ask the people who own/run these cars

1. Which is the best spec engine for power/reliability

2. I live in yorkshire and wondered about servicing set up ect

3. What are these cars like to own/drive I will only be using it as a weekend car. I went to see a 640 the other day and really liked the look of the car but wonder what this type of engine is like to look after reliability service intervals ect
As these cars are few and far between this is the only one I have looked at.

4. Any common faults or engines spec/cars best avoided and what to look out for.

Any information would be great


confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Sunday 12th October 2014
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all in IMHO,
1. Which is the best spec engine for power/reliability : Any LS series. LS3 for bang for buck is the common understanding. although if you are buying its about the whole package. building one you pick and choose what you like.

2. I live in yorkshire and wondered about servicing set up ect : www.autobionics.co.uk near selby.

3. What are these cars like to own/drive I will only be using it as a weekend car. I went to see a 640 the other day and really liked the look of the car but wonder what this type of engine is like to look after reliability service intervals ect
As these cars are few and far between this is the only one I have looked at.
: the 640 is an SBC not an LS type. I have an SBC myself.... It pain when its cold for the first minute, it spits and snarls at you and it takes over the character of the car. And you know what.... I love it. I love the engine tone its like nothing else, even the ls3's. I thinking of spwapping to an ls3 or LSa when I bought mine but actually. Im quite happy! You do need to keep an eye on the SBCs more than the LS's though. Right oil etc. And you'll be paying a fair chuuck more fo an LS3 one as you will no doubt see. If you are handy with a spanner though you could do it yorself. Although if you had a 640.... an LS3 may not cut the mustard and you are looking at LS7s etc withi is a fair chuck more money. Have a look on parts world performance for crate engine prices.


4. Any common faults or engines spec/cars best avoided and what to look out for:
All I can say here is spend a few hours trawling back through this forum. Its an impossible question to answer as a few folk will tell you to avoid the SBCs and then there are just as many if not more that will profess their undying love for the SBC. I for one I am glad for the experience, but I am a tinkerer and don't mind the quirks.

Hope that helps as a starter for 10.


Edited by confusionhunter on Sunday 12th October 23:21

spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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Thank you some very good info

Nabbott

294 posts

135 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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Would agree with the comments above. I have a SBC Engined car (but am a confessed fettler as well). The advantages of SBCs are that they are incredibly common and have been around for a long time so well served by specialists the world over. I went to a drag race for the first time this summer and the SBC is the staple engine for all the big BHP racers - who knew??? If correctly maintained they can be bullet proof.

A very good buddy of mine (also probably reading this thread) is in the process of building a GTR with an LS3 engine. It's fair to say they are totally different in noise and character. The LS3 engine is a modern generation engine and if all you ever wanted to do was change the oil every year and have a modern, very tractable engine this may be the one to go for.

My honest advice is to try both and see how you feel. Also Don't Rush the pre purchase due diligence. I spent a LONG time looking and researching cars and ended up buying my car because of the specification and condition, price and the engine choice wasn't actually that much of a consideration.

Regards the rest of the car they are fairly 'standard' in construction/materials and very well engineered so (providing they've been built by a diligent and considered person), should present very few issues.

I would say that the difference in the way people put together their interior varies and may be an indicator to the quality of the build/talent patience of the builder!

Good luck and let us know how you get on.

Abbosevolution

352 posts

134 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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Totally agree with Nigel's and Confusionhunters comments. Its a very individual choice - above all look at the build quality - look at the component quality - I've gone LS3 but seeing Nigel's SBC I can see the attraction - some want the classic Ultima, others like myself want to try and give it a more up to date look (digi dash, etc) - its a very personal choice - good luck with your hunt - the forum has many helpful guys out there always willing to help

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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If you are in any way phobic of car maintenance then I would suggest LS series.
No one has mentioned Gearboxes, so I will.
Be sure to get a car with a high final drive, there are many gearboxes to fit these cars, mostly Porsche transaxles.
The vast majority of Gearboxes on the second-hand market are from the lower derivative cars ie. non Turbo cars, this makes the desirable gearboxes: Turbo, GT2, GT3 quite hard to find and expensive to obtain.
IMO it is a mistake to get a car with the lower final drive box in it.
You should be looking at a car that can achieve(theoretically) around 210 mph at 7200RPM
This will help with mileage and relaxed cruising.
I have a G50/52 5 speed box, these have a 9.5" crown wheel and pinion which is a nice "to have" as it helps when dealing with a big power/torque motor. I wish it were a 4 speed, these engines are torque monsters and don't need the gear box stirring to get going.
The regular Carrera type boxes of this era are good for around 160mph flat out, not good for mileage or relaxed cruising.
Of course you may be lucky enough to find a car with a later GT2 or GT3 box in it, but this would be a rare car.

UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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A G96-50 box from the Twin Turbo should be sufficiently strong. Despite the six gears you perhaps don't need them all and can skip changes when going up the ratios. Give a call to Steve and Jason at AutoBionics. I'm sure they will be happy to help.

spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Monday 13th October 2014
quotequote all
I will be Looking for a car already made I won't be building it my self. I was just a bit shocked when I opened the rear to see a big old carb on a massive old V8 (I come from turbos and injection)
What cc is the 640 and the 720 I keep getting mixed answers some say 6.3 some say 7.0.

I'am looking for (all tho still unsure)a modern ultima with a fuel injected engine but with big power like the 640.
A few have mentioned the Ls3 -Ls7 I know these are sort of easy to get hold of but I want a desirable car for resale if I ever come to sell it.

Other option was to get a rolling chassis and drop an engine in but I don't have the time or space to do this.

Has any one around Yorkshire area got a 640 or an LS powered car that are willing to show me?

The one I looked at is the red 640GTR for sale on here but with me not knowing too much about these cars and wasn't in the postion to buy then as I still have my other car I didn't want mess the guy around asking for a test drive.

Great information coming across tho

Nabbott

294 posts

135 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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So my SBC car has circa 640+bhp at the crank (548bhp dynoed at the hubs earlier this year) running Kinsler fuel injection, mapped ignition etc. it's all very 'trick' (for a SBC smile) but if I'd have built this car I'm not sure I'd have specc'ed such a motor.

To get that level of bhp out of any engine is going to cost a great deal (the build sheet for my engine (with ancillaries) is £40k and this was 10+ years ago!) and with the weight of the car you really shouldn't need it. IMHO any well built car with around 500bhp will be sufficient to scare the pants of most mortals. By fixating on the level of power you may miss some really nicely screwed together vehicles.

HOWEVER if you MUST have big power (reliable) then the modern LS engines are the way to go.

confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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I here you Spen!!! My home is messing with bi turbo Audis, so you need a laptop, some logging tools and a dyno and tweaked engine sensors to get the best..... I'm now faced with a carb and nothing but a plain screwdriver!! WTF?

Im told the best way to tune these is to put your pinky in your ear, stand on one leg and feel the beat of the engine and that will tell you exactly what you need to know! Tweak away winkbiggrin
I for one once I've finished the obvious upgrades am looking forward to tuning using the colour of the plugs!.... and maybe a wide band lambda.... sorry, I'm a gadget freak!

Depending on how flush you are feeling and how handy you are with a spanner you may be better buying an SBC car and swapping to something you like, That was my approach and now Im getting used to it Im enjoyng the SBC experience.

The 640 supplied by american speed is actually a SBC 377 cubic inch which is just shy of 6.2. 720 is also an SBC motor 406ci so that 6.7. Ls7 is 7 litre and 700hp. Im no expert but Ive learned alot from this forum and plenty of internet research.
Here is your engine list from american speed as supplied to the factory:
http://www.amerspeed.com/cgi-bin/showultimaengines...
and here is some more interesting reading....
http://www.partsworldperformance.com/chevrolet-ls-...

djb222

67 posts

125 months

Monday 13th October 2014
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Hi,

after quite a few years my GTR is getting close to being finished, my choice of engine was a 640 dry sumped sbc and it sounds glorious. My only recent worry was emissions and getting it through the IVA. Had the carb tuned and the emissions checked, they were scarily out of wack, however I'm assured it is just a visual check.

Engine choice as others have said is personal choice, and, if I was starting a build now I would still go for an SBC, still I'm old skool, my favourite car I have owned is my 68' Elan S4, gorgeous.

Happy hunting.

David

Steve_D

13,737 posts

257 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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djb222 said:
Hi,

after quite a few years my GTR is getting close to being finished, my choice of engine was a 640 dry sumped sbc and it sounds glorious. My only recent worry was emissions and getting it through the IVA. Had the carb tuned and the emissions checked, they were scarily out of wack, however I'm assured it is just a visual check.

Engine choice as others have said is personal choice, and, if I was starting a build now I would still go for an SBC, still I'm old skool, my favourite car I have owned is my 68' Elan S4, gorgeous.

Happy hunting.

David
You will need to provide documentry proof of the engines age. With the SBC this is quite easy as there is plenty of info out there. If the engine block is pre August 1975 then the emissions will be visual smoke only (like my 6.7L SBC).

Steve

shithotfast

1,132 posts

267 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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My spyder is very old school, massive holly card, SBC ZZ4, still good for about 400bhp per ton which is enough for me and was considered fairly beefy back in 1997 when I built it. Seems like they put that much HP in a standard shopping trolley now.

I have the standard 5 speed G50, and yes it does run out of puff because my SBC has a lower rev limit, so max speed (I think for all the standard G50s?) is 29mph per 1000 in 5th - so only 174mph for me, but having done that a couple of times its fast enough for me, and in a car with no roof or windscreen its a bit drafty at that speed!

I prefer the old school build, means I can fix most parts myself. Either way they are great fun. Good luck with your choice. !




spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
quotequote all
Thanks for the info so far.

I have been doing a bit of homework and still undecided really like the 640 power but with the LS engine as I want some thing I just turn the key drive and pop back in the garage when done service when required with out all the faff. ( am I asking too much for this sort of car)???????

I understand that these type of cars are hand built and will have a few niggles now and again but buying a built car should have all these little problems sorted out.

Are all the factory cars the same spec chassis/ suspension components? I don't want a low spec car with a high power engine in.

Are the SBC 640s as good as they say would it be worth getting one? Or find a LS powered car with similar power ?

The 640 I looked at is the red one for sale on here I was suprised on how well it was built and looked and really got me thinking about getting one.

It will be used mostly on the road with the odd track day/sprint 1/4 mile events but other than that nothing serious.






UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
quotequote all
Regarding suspensions you have two types available: standard with bushings which is perfect for use on the road and the occasional track day, or more track oriented with rose joints and sticky tyres or slicks.
The majority of owners will go for the standard bushing suspension, but then I guess each to his own. Just my 2p's...

spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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Thanks for that just need to find the right car for me ?

Anyone around yorkshire got a SBC 640 or a LS willing to show me

corvettedave

274 posts

156 months

Tuesday 14th October 2014
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having both these engines in some of my cars, then LS all day long for low maintenance and less hassle, ie turn the key and go

I got that pissed off with having to set my carb sbc, converted it too fuel injection

dave

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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You are heading for an LS7 if you want turn-key reliability at the power level you want.

spen123

Original Poster:

46 posts

195 months

Thursday 16th October 2014
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That's the way it's heading I just need ago in one now

corvettedave

274 posts

156 months

Friday 17th October 2014
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I was also thinking LS7 tuned up, until i found out that a few have been having problems, the ls7 is a bored out ls3 block, so therefore its been made weaker slightly, i think the best value for money is a LSA, ie ls3 block, not bored out, comes with supercharger, standard bhp 550, new map and smaller supercharger pulley gives you 650 bhp and still modern day reliability etc