Searching for info paddle shift.....

Searching for info paddle shift.....

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Discussion

Adam GTR

Original Poster:

51 posts

177 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Gents,
Can someone advise me on searching the forum data base for information ?

While getting older and somewhat lazier, I'm curious if anyone has completed a paddle shift conversion on their car.
Currently, I have an LS7 and G50, right hand shift in a right hand drive vehicle.
I have found a box and shift system built by Albins in Australia.
Unfortunately, the estimate is around the $40k AUD mark...

Any advice appreciated.

Adam



confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
I think at the moment the cost is prohibitive. I did look at this.
I even thought about retro fitting an audi DSG box. This issue is that you would need a good system to justify putting it in an ultima. So looking at say the R-tronic and s-tronic boxes.... its only worth fitting the true paddle box which is the s tronic, check this out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ynivPk1Y7AI
Both Paddle, one is an automated manual and one is a true double clutch. I looked into it and even the box and electronics out of one of these cars is prohibitive they are just too damn new. Not to mention the night mare of setting the car up an retro fitting all the bits and 'frankenstiening' it

Unless you got a sequential box and fitted air shifters to that (like they do in motorbike drag racing)... I though about all of that and my conclusion was if I really want a sharp car with a paddle box, go buy a radical Sr3!....





The Italian

136 posts

121 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
My opinion; Too expensive & no specific kit. If there was one already built into, let's say a corvette or earlier Porsche product, you could have a standing chance.(salvage)
The big V8 is slow revving compared to a european engine, so why?
Also, if the Factory car can turn record breaking laps with manual shift, why bother?
I would concentrate on the transmission if anything and re-gear the lowers

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Programming for the weight, inertia, Brakes etc, would cost an awful lot, you may have a fighting chance if you use a box from a 1200Kg car but then there is the problem of engine/gearbox electronic "mating" and of course all CAN bus electronics.
there are the "oakley" or Seqshift/MAstershift systems but these are a little crude IMO.

http://www.sqsracing.com/produkt/277:363:sqs-seque...

http://www.supercarsllc.com/newmastershift/index.p...

Racing Roj

488 posts

162 months

Saturday 8th November 2014
quotequote all
Try Thomas Kirchhoffer at SQS sequential shift in Germany (www.cartronic-motors.com). His unit which connects to the side of the gearbox will fit 996, 997, 986, 987, GT3 and Turbo boxes with Bowden cables so you may have to consider a box swop. The kit is coming out at Euro 3,750 + tax + freight. Paul Dixon V8YES (UK based) has a system fitted which I believe was done in California. I have looked at the Albins box with the extra sequential kit but its outside my budget. They do a synchromesh version as well.

Adam GTR

Original Poster:

51 posts

177 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Thanks,
Has anyone had experience with this transaxle ?
http://www.eliteracingtransmissions.com/products/t...

Adam

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
The Elite transaxle won't fit.

The Albins box is the most cost effective solution of the proper sequential transaxles, however you will not be able to implement the necessary ignition cuts, phase in's etc required to perform fast and smooth changes with the standard GM ECU.

We have investigated this to death for various customers who are developing/producing road cars.

Here is a bit of onboard footage of the Albins box being used with Paddleshift at a damp Oulton Park, you can see just how smooth it is...enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ykiguoy1yK4

Jonny


confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Wow, Thats Impressive. So it would only work if you use an aftermarket ECU like a DTA or Motech etc?

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
confusionhunter said:
Wow, Thats Impressive. So it would only work if you use an aftermarket ECU like a DTA or Motech etc?
Yes correct.

In a nutshell...On upshifts it is not just a case of interrupting the ignition signal - it needs to be timed correctly using the shift barrel position, with the correct amount of retard, phased back in at the correct time over the correct duration. The downshift needs to blip the throttle to match revs, then cut/retard the ignition to stop the car being pushed past the corner, then phase the whole lot back in once the shift event has occurred.

There is also heaps of logic to stop you doing things like accidentally shifting down too many gears and over revving, or shifting down when you are on the limiter etc, as well as other features.

anonymous-user

53 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
And "shifting the gears" is the easy bit. Dealing with the clutch, and all it's vagaries is something else entirely (see Gen1 Aston Vanquish for details.........)


If you have a pukka dog box, and just use the clutch to get moving / stop then you can leave it "leg" actuated and it's fine. But otherwise, ime, with a syncro box, you won't be able to get the torque control accuracy, particularly around zero net torque, to get clean shifts (up and down) at all loads. (Full throttle shifts are easy, it's the gentle ones, or ones with a bit of wheelspin before you shift that are the tricky ones)

Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
I would love an automated shift for my Ultima but there is no way I could like with the gear whine of a racing box.

I will stick with the G50/52 until someone cracks the issues of inverting/electronics of a PDK box.


Paul

GtrMan

134 posts

148 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all

GtrMan

134 posts

148 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
[quote=macgtech]The Elite transaxle won't fit.

They won't fit as there are no bell housing available for the GM engine.?

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
Storer said:
I would love an automated shift for my Ultima but there is no way I could like with the gear whine of a racing box.

I will stick with the G50/52 until someone cracks the issues of inverting/electronics of a PDK box.


Paul
Albins have a helical sequential already don't they?

macgtech

997 posts

158 months

Sunday 9th November 2014
quotequote all
F.C. said:
Albins have a helical sequential already don't they?
Yes. The trans we use is the ST6-M, but the older style AGB10 uses helical gears and is available in H pattern or sequential.

From memory the Elite is too tall, and clashes with the top chassis rail by a considerable margin. I remember that we did look at it initially when we started but we needed considerable chassis modifications to get it to fit.