Ultima Engine provider-Again!!
Discussion
My numbers:
USD 19k for an LS3 (480hp) inclusive of crate and shipping to UK. Import duty + VAT + others may need to be added - have not yet recd so not sure of exact amount. Add the Ultima parts (cold air intake, exhaust and ceramic coating, engine mounts) for a total price of about £15800.
A similar setup from AB is about £11800+crate engine price.
These numbers do not include any fuel system - you can use Ultimas or ABs with either engine setup.
There are a couple differences in what's included because of the way the systems are setup, but again, both are STANDOUT systems.
USD 19k for an LS3 (480hp) inclusive of crate and shipping to UK. Import duty + VAT + others may need to be added - have not yet recd so not sure of exact amount. Add the Ultima parts (cold air intake, exhaust and ceramic coating, engine mounts) for a total price of about £15800.
A similar setup from AB is about £11800+crate engine price.
These numbers do not include any fuel system - you can use Ultimas or ABs with either engine setup.
There are a couple differences in what's included because of the way the systems are setup, but again, both are STANDOUT systems.
Sorry GTRS I see your earlier post says LS3, but exactly which BHP engine was it for £15000?
Also, as for exhaust headers, the reason why I am welding up my own set is because it appears you cannot get a set of off the shelf headers that fit the Ultima chassis and end up pointing downwards, let alone pointing in the correct position for the factory's exhaust back section, I am guessing that the AS supplied headers are custom made to fit an Ultima, so that makes the factory part a custom made rear section...so it's either the factory's full system or a bespoke exhaust made by someone like JP Exhausts or AB's elaborate headers which seem in my opinion (although a work of art) far too big for the few HP gains they are quoting.
There are plenty of other bespoke exhaust companies around England that will be able to make systems up for you, but they will all be into the £1500-£2500 price range, so unless you can weld them up yourself, you're probably just as well going with the full factory system, it will simply bolt in and jobs a good-un!
Also, as for exhaust headers, the reason why I am welding up my own set is because it appears you cannot get a set of off the shelf headers that fit the Ultima chassis and end up pointing downwards, let alone pointing in the correct position for the factory's exhaust back section, I am guessing that the AS supplied headers are custom made to fit an Ultima, so that makes the factory part a custom made rear section...so it's either the factory's full system or a bespoke exhaust made by someone like JP Exhausts or AB's elaborate headers which seem in my opinion (although a work of art) far too big for the few HP gains they are quoting.
There are plenty of other bespoke exhaust companies around England that will be able to make systems up for you, but they will all be into the £1500-£2500 price range, so unless you can weld them up yourself, you're probably just as well going with the full factory system, it will simply bolt in and jobs a good-un!
Edited by chucknorris on Tuesday 24th February 10:40
That AS price is for the 480 bhp.
Do the factory sell the complete exhaust system including the headers? I was under the impression that you buy the exhaust from the factory and the headers come with the AS package. Someone please correct me if I have got this wrong. So the only way to get the complete exhaust system including headers is to go with AS, AB or have a complete bespoke system fabricated.
Do the factory sell the complete exhaust system including the headers? I was under the impression that you buy the exhaust from the factory and the headers come with the AS package. Someone please correct me if I have got this wrong. So the only way to get the complete exhaust system including headers is to go with AS, AB or have a complete bespoke system fabricated.
Wow! 
That now shows the true price difference between a plug and play engine and a self install.
A stock LS3 (430hp) crate engine with a stock ECU loom and GM CTS-V ancillaries kit, the engine/gearbox mounting plate with flywheel etc. a certain amount of self modification and sourcing of parts and finally a self made exhaust system - £8000
An American Speed (480hp) with all factory bits (and far easier and quicker to install) £16000 to £17000 depending on the cost of the final section of exhaust from the Factory.
Even if you take into account that I will have to take my engine back out to put a new cam in it and then having it remapped (although i will then end up with mid 500HP rather than 480HP) this will add around £1500 but this is still a VAST difference in price....
HOWEVER...I do not want to end on that note, I am not going to criticize what the Factory and AS are supplying OR their costs.
As i am finding out, there is a fair amount of work to do to get a crate engine to fit and this all takes time which costs me nothing, Ultima and AS are in business to make money, they are not going to do things for free (...Profit is not a dirty word)! They are doing all that extra work for you and producing something that could quite possibly be all installed in a (long) day, whereas, so far I have spent 2 weeks installing the engine and gearbox and it's still not finished yet, AND i still don't know if it will pass it's IVA which means i might have to modify the exhaust system if it's either too loud or the emissions aren't good enough.
Ease and piece of mind is what you are paying the extra for when you buy a plug and play engine package, but now that we have the exact cost difference, builders can weigh it up for themselves whether they are prepared to pay the extra or try a self install.
Maybe this will end the argument of ''Which engine provider?'' although i doubt it!
That now shows the true price difference between a plug and play engine and a self install.A stock LS3 (430hp) crate engine with a stock ECU loom and GM CTS-V ancillaries kit, the engine/gearbox mounting plate with flywheel etc. a certain amount of self modification and sourcing of parts and finally a self made exhaust system - £8000
An American Speed (480hp) with all factory bits (and far easier and quicker to install) £16000 to £17000 depending on the cost of the final section of exhaust from the Factory.
Even if you take into account that I will have to take my engine back out to put a new cam in it and then having it remapped (although i will then end up with mid 500HP rather than 480HP) this will add around £1500 but this is still a VAST difference in price....
HOWEVER...I do not want to end on that note, I am not going to criticize what the Factory and AS are supplying OR their costs.
As i am finding out, there is a fair amount of work to do to get a crate engine to fit and this all takes time which costs me nothing, Ultima and AS are in business to make money, they are not going to do things for free (...Profit is not a dirty word)! They are doing all that extra work for you and producing something that could quite possibly be all installed in a (long) day, whereas, so far I have spent 2 weeks installing the engine and gearbox and it's still not finished yet, AND i still don't know if it will pass it's IVA which means i might have to modify the exhaust system if it's either too loud or the emissions aren't good enough.
Ease and piece of mind is what you are paying the extra for when you buy a plug and play engine package, but now that we have the exact cost difference, builders can weigh it up for themselves whether they are prepared to pay the extra or try a self install.
Maybe this will end the argument of ''Which engine provider?'' although i doubt it!
Ultima factory said:
Your engine installation/exhaust package fitted into a current GTR and Can-Am chassis for example would foul some of the updated chassis members and would require some fabrication, welding and general fettling to make it all fit.
Has anyone gone down the PWP route and had to modify the chassis to make the engine fit the new updated chassis? If so what were the mods? I doubt there are many(if any) in terms of percentage audience on here that have the new chassis and a crate engine to fit.
To add to Chucknorris's summary above:
Another consideration on which engine route to take is capital value and resale value. I know a very boring sensible topic but how much more is a car worth with a plug and play kit if any? Depends on the ability and documentation of the builder obviously but it will be hard to match a fully documented plug and play for resale value unless its something out of the ordinary. Also something else to bear in mind, linked to the above, is; while the difference in a crate vs plug and play is a fair amount; in terms of percentage value of a freshly built Ultima, it may only 5 or 10% of the end value of the car. And it may well be worth that very 5% more by having the plug and play????
Everyone will be different but something else to add to the mix!!
To add to Chucknorris's summary above:
Another consideration on which engine route to take is capital value and resale value. I know a very boring sensible topic but how much more is a car worth with a plug and play kit if any? Depends on the ability and documentation of the builder obviously but it will be hard to match a fully documented plug and play for resale value unless its something out of the ordinary. Also something else to bear in mind, linked to the above, is; while the difference in a crate vs plug and play is a fair amount; in terms of percentage value of a freshly built Ultima, it may only 5 or 10% of the end value of the car. And it may well be worth that very 5% more by having the plug and play????
Everyone will be different but something else to add to the mix!!
GTRS said:
Ultima factory said:
Your engine installation/exhaust package fitted into a current GTR and Can-Am chassis for example would foul some of the updated chassis members and would require some fabrication, welding and general fettling to make it all fit.
Has anyone gone down the PWP route and had to modify the chassis to make the engine fit the new updated chassis? If so what were the mods? AFAIK all LS engines use the same mount.
Paul
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