Discussion
Hi Guys I would appreciate any advice on Tony Knigh's built Ultima. I Have read his build really informative and understand he looked for it again in 2012 to buy it back.It is currently for sale at Retro Classics for £48k I think Sports and Prestige sold it in 2013 for £45k. I am currently looking at this or a can am version, is that sensible money?, I read about his engine bother and understand Charles Dunn repaired it but couldn't find any more info about this. If anybody knows the car any info would be appreciated, also he said it topped at 182mph this must be down to gear ratios but I thought the G50 box was good for in excess of 200 as his motor definitely good for it.Any advice on a can am v gtr would be appreciated, Many thanks for any info in advance cheers Mark.
Hiya, Can't help you on your history of that car but... I wrote a wee blog on why I decided I wanted a Can Am a while ago.... this might help you. Reasons:
- The flexibility, so many vehicles in one. Roofed, Open top, aero screen and hardtop (if you make one). You pick....
Only one option with the GTR....
- Wet weather driving point. OK in a rain storm you'd want a hard top, but I find it unlikely I would take GTR out in damp conditions etc anyway.... so may as well have a can am for the other advantages, plus you just get wet as soon as you open the door on a gtr (the door stores up water for you, just to rain on you when the door is opened whether its stopped raining or not!
- Open top- actually I didn't really get that until I had a shot of my mates buggy .... I really liked that.... oh god I'm a hairdresser!
- The Aeroscreen..... I had a single seater experience and loved the open top no windscreen experience. Well this is it for the road, helmet on (or not) . I'm told you don't need a helmet to use the Aeroscreen, can't wait to find out.
- A Can Am and nice low lines.... love it. With or without windscreen and wing, changes the look of the car from an almost classic car to a out and out race car.
- The looks - I think the Can am looks better, no 2 ways about it. The GTR has a goldfish bowl effect from some angles because of the higher roof line and the fact it has a roof and some GTR owners mask this nicely with a well place sun visor.
Ok I accept its not quite as safe as a GTR (no front roll hoop as std) but I'll personally fix that, and you have to make the roof options yourself IMHO as while the factory options are of course fit for purpose there is no hard top and Id prefer more flexible soft top option (like Krunchers).
No doubt others will balance the argument with things like..... no roof... in the UK.... REALLY???
- The flexibility, so many vehicles in one. Roofed, Open top, aero screen and hardtop (if you make one). You pick....
Only one option with the GTR....- Wet weather driving point. OK in a rain storm you'd want a hard top, but I find it unlikely I would take GTR out in damp conditions etc anyway.... so may as well have a can am for the other advantages, plus you just get wet as soon as you open the door on a gtr (the door stores up water for you, just to rain on you when the door is opened whether its stopped raining or not!
- Open top- actually I didn't really get that until I had a shot of my mates buggy .... I really liked that.... oh god I'm a hairdresser!
- The Aeroscreen..... I had a single seater experience and loved the open top no windscreen experience. Well this is it for the road, helmet on (or not) . I'm told you don't need a helmet to use the Aeroscreen, can't wait to find out.
- A Can Am and nice low lines.... love it. With or without windscreen and wing, changes the look of the car from an almost classic car to a out and out race car.
- The looks - I think the Can am looks better, no 2 ways about it. The GTR has a goldfish bowl effect from some angles because of the higher roof line and the fact it has a roof and some GTR owners mask this nicely with a well place sun visor.
Ok I accept its not quite as safe as a GTR (no front roll hoop as std) but I'll personally fix that, and you have to make the roof options yourself IMHO as while the factory options are of course fit for purpose there is no hard top and Id prefer more flexible soft top option (like Krunchers).
No doubt others will balance the argument with things like..... no roof... in the UK.... REALLY???
No advice to offer on that car but, GTR for me over the Can Am every day of the week. Good thing we are all different
However, I do get the idea that having a "special" car with no roof isn't as much of a compromise as it seems. I have had a convertible Ferrari for the past 5 years and have used it with the roof up for less than an hour in that time, always when I have been stuck in slow moving traffic in the rain. Similarly, Elises, Caterhams and Westfields have all been great ownership cars over the years and the only time I used to pop the roof on the Elise was when parked up, so I think if a Can-Am is what you are after you won't be overly compromised by having no roof.
However, I do get the idea that having a "special" car with no roof isn't as much of a compromise as it seems. I have had a convertible Ferrari for the past 5 years and have used it with the roof up for less than an hour in that time, always when I have been stuck in slow moving traffic in the rain. Similarly, Elises, Caterhams and Westfields have all been great ownership cars over the years and the only time I used to pop the roof on the Elise was when parked up, so I think if a Can-Am is what you are after you won't be overly compromised by having no roof.
big block said:
......also he said it topped at 182mph this must be down to gear ratios but I thought the G50 box was good for in excess of 200 as his motor definitely good for it........
The main problem is that most of the engines and in particular the small block do not rev very high so the resultant top speed is lower than you would think.Steve
There are variations of the G50. Their gearing can differ considerably.
A G50.01 will max out at about 175/180mph with a GM V8 at circa 6800/7000rpm
A G50.52 will top 200/210mph at 7100rpm from a GM LS7.
Some have their top gear swapped for a tall one to achieve reasonable motorway driving.
Paul
A G50.01 will max out at about 175/180mph with a GM V8 at circa 6800/7000rpm
A G50.52 will top 200/210mph at 7100rpm from a GM LS7.
Some have their top gear swapped for a tall one to achieve reasonable motorway driving.
Paul
Storer said:
There are variations of the G50. Their gearing can differ considerably.
A G50.01 will max out at about 175/180mph with a GM V8 at circa 6800/7000rpm
A G50.52 will top 200/210mph at 7100rpm from a GM LS7.
Some have their top gear swapped for a tall one to achieve reasonable motorway driving.
Paul
^^^^^^^^^^^^A G50.01 will max out at about 175/180mph with a GM V8 at circa 6800/7000rpm
A G50.52 will top 200/210mph at 7100rpm from a GM LS7.
Some have their top gear swapped for a tall one to achieve reasonable motorway driving.
Paul
What Paul said the only std G50's that give high top end are from Turbo derivative cars the two sought after boxes are a G50.52 and G50.50 both are becoming a rarity and come at a high cost, later boxes are coming on to the S/H market but have an equally high price tag.
confusionhunter said:
Hiya, Can't help you on your history of that car but... I wrote a wee blog on why I decided I wanted a Can Am a while ago.... this might help you. Reasons:
- The flexibility, so many vehicles in one. Roofed, Open top, aero screen and hardtop (if you make one). You pick.... Only one option with the GTR....
- Wet weather driving point. OK in a rain storm you'd want a hard top, but I find it unlikely I would take GTR out in damp conditions etc anyway.... so may as well have a can am for the other advantages, plus you just get wet as soon as you open the door on a gtr (the door stores up water for you, just to rain on you when the door is opened whether its stopped raining or not!
- Open top- actually I didn't really get that until I had a shot of my mates buggy .... I really liked that.... oh god I'm a hairdresser!
- The Aeroscreen..... I had a single seater experience and loved the open top no windscreen experience. Well this is it for the road, helmet on (or not) . I'm told you don't need a helmet to use the Aeroscreen, can't wait to find out.
- A Can Am and nice low lines.... love it. With or without windscreen and wing, changes the look of the car from an almost classic car to a out and out race car.
- The looks - I think the Can am looks better, no 2 ways about it. The GTR has a goldfish bowl effect from some angles because of the higher roof line and the fact it has a roof and some GTR owners mask this nicely with a well place sun visor.
Ok I accept its not quite as safe as a GTR (no front roll hoop as std) but I'll personally fix that, and you have to make the roof options yourself IMHO as while the factory options are of course fit for purpose there is no hard top and Id prefer more flexible soft top option (like Krunchers).
No doubt others will balance the argument with things like..... no roof... in the UK.... REALLY???
+1- The flexibility, so many vehicles in one. Roofed, Open top, aero screen and hardtop (if you make one). You pick....
Only one option with the GTR....- Wet weather driving point. OK in a rain storm you'd want a hard top, but I find it unlikely I would take GTR out in damp conditions etc anyway.... so may as well have a can am for the other advantages, plus you just get wet as soon as you open the door on a gtr (the door stores up water for you, just to rain on you when the door is opened whether its stopped raining or not!
- Open top- actually I didn't really get that until I had a shot of my mates buggy .... I really liked that.... oh god I'm a hairdresser!
- The Aeroscreen..... I had a single seater experience and loved the open top no windscreen experience. Well this is it for the road, helmet on (or not) . I'm told you don't need a helmet to use the Aeroscreen, can't wait to find out.
- A Can Am and nice low lines.... love it. With or without windscreen and wing, changes the look of the car from an almost classic car to a out and out race car.
- The looks - I think the Can am looks better, no 2 ways about it. The GTR has a goldfish bowl effect from some angles because of the higher roof line and the fact it has a roof and some GTR owners mask this nicely with a well place sun visor.
Ok I accept its not quite as safe as a GTR (no front roll hoop as std) but I'll personally fix that, and you have to make the roof options yourself IMHO as while the factory options are of course fit for purpose there is no hard top and Id prefer more flexible soft top option (like Krunchers).
No doubt others will balance the argument with things like..... no roof... in the UK.... REALLY???
I was originally drawn to my sport due to the classic sports car look and both the GTR and Sports are fine vehicles. I drive mine when the weather is good, wet roads are no fun even with my relatively miserly 420 horse SBC and I hate the car being mucky, so tend to avoid days when its likely to rain. Plus in the sun, without aircon, it can quite quickly become a less pleasant experience driving if you are no moving as much as you would like... plus theres no getting away from the fact that with two up it does feel a bit 'close'
So if I was building again it would be a Can Am, for pretty much all of the + points Confusionhunter lists above
Steve_D said:
big block said:
......also he said it topped at 182mph this must be down to gear ratios but I thought the G50 box was good for in excess of 200 as his motor definitely good for it........
The main problem is that most of the engines and in particular the small block do not rev very high so the resultant top speed is lower than you would think.Steve
mine at 7k is 211 mph
and my sbc Charles said i could rev to 8k( but i wont) and that is 240 mph
the g50/52 gives a higher top speed in therory although i doubt ill ever see mine at a top speed at max revs
My canam Had the gearbox sent to California motor sports for modification And strenthening and the data sheet that was supplied with it showing gearing shows it as gearing limited at 225 mph . Car also has updated driveshafts to cope with the torque and the strain of the sequential also 
Sorry if this is too much thread drift but...
Would you know the final drive ratio of the 7K/211MPH gearbox? I have a G50 with (what I believe to be) a 3.44 and it seems to be much shorter. First gear is not usable for anything other than taxiing and I start off in second from a stop. The engine turns about 2350 RPM at 70 MPH. Does that seems to be the standard for these cars (I did not build it)? I was thinking of contacting California Motor Sports to see if they had a longer final drive change (I thought they had a 3.11) and/or whether there were other options to give the car longer legs.
V
Would you know the final drive ratio of the 7K/211MPH gearbox? I have a G50 with (what I believe to be) a 3.44 and it seems to be much shorter. First gear is not usable for anything other than taxiing and I start off in second from a stop. The engine turns about 2350 RPM at 70 MPH. Does that seems to be the standard for these cars (I did not build it)? I was thinking of contacting California Motor Sports to see if they had a longer final drive change (I thought they had a 3.11) and/or whether there were other options to give the car longer legs.
V
V8Dom said:
depends on the state of tune?
mine at 7k is 211 mph
and my sbc Charles said i could rev to 8k( but i wont) and that is 240 mph
the g50/52 gives a higher top speed in therory although i doubt ill ever see mine at a top speed at max revs
mine at 7k is 211 mph
and my sbc Charles said i could rev to 8k( but i wont) and that is 240 mph
the g50/52 gives a higher top speed in therory although i doubt ill ever see mine at a top speed at max revs
its all in my excel forular i posted on the forums a few years ago
the 5 th gear ratio is really different and alot higher than the rest...
the normal g50 is nice ratio spacing all the way to 5th gear... the 52 box nice 1-4 then a higher 5th
im off to wales now but Roger has the formular and its on the porsche gearbox website.
the modified 5th gear for the g50 o2 box is available from the states
the 5 th gear ratio is really different and alot higher than the rest...
the normal g50 is nice ratio spacing all the way to 5th gear... the 52 box nice 1-4 then a higher 5th
im off to wales now but Roger has the formular and its on the porsche gearbox website.
the modified 5th gear for the g50 o2 box is available from the states
If you could provide a few pointers when you are free, that would be very helpful. As I recall, a C6/Z06 is turning about 1700 RPM in 6th at 70 MPH while my Ultima (with the same motor) is turning about 2350-2400 in 6th. I believe that the G50 installed has a 3.44 final drive. I guess I'm looking for someone to confirm that these numbers make sense. Off hand and from the numbers I referenced from my GTR, would it seem that a change in final drive ratio could stretch out the gearing to make it better suited for the street? Replacing individual gears would seem too costly and complex for my tastes.
To add, I was considering an transmission improvement project with an LSD, a final drive change and a housing axle exit reinforcement. Do it all at once. But likely would do it only if I could work out a ratio change.
Thx,
B
To add, I was considering an transmission improvement project with an LSD, a final drive change and a housing axle exit reinforcement. Do it all at once. But likely would do it only if I could work out a ratio change.
Thx,
B
Edited by Verde on Sunday 19th April 05:55
Verde said:
If you could provide a few pointers when you are free, that would be very helpful. As I recall, a C6/Z06 is turning about 1700 RPM in 6th at 70 MPH while my Ultima (with the same motor) is turning about 2350-2400 in 6th. I believe that the G50 installed has a 3.44 final drive. I guess I'm looking for someone to confirm that these numbers make sense. Off hand and from the numbers I referenced from my GTR, would it seem that a change in final drive ratio could stretch out the gearing to make it better suited for the street? Replacing individual gears would seem too costly and complex for my tastes.
To add, I was considering an transmission improvement project with an LSD, a final drive change and a housing axle exit reinforcement. Do it all at once. But likely would do it only if I could work out a ratio change.
Thx,
B
here is the link to the program i wroteTo add, I was considering an transmission improvement project with an LSD, a final drive change and a housing axle exit reinforcement. Do it all at once. But likely would do it only if I could work out a ratio change.
Thx,
B
Edited by Verde on Sunday 19th April 05:55
http://www.spatz-tech.com/ultima/Doms_Gear.xls
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