Ultima vs F430 or another 'supercar'
Discussion
I'm interested in the views of Ultima owners in comparison terms of the ownership proposition vs conventional 'supercars' - F430, Gallardo etc
I had decided to buy a LHD F430 from europe as the value seems very good at the moment and it's likely I will either loose nothing/very little or if I'm lucky have a gently appreciating asset in the near term. But the allure of the performance of the ultima GTR's have always appealed so I am somewhat torn.
While I understand modern sports cars shouldn't really be considered 'investments' I'm interested to hear from owners how they have got on in terms of TCO on Ultima's they have built or bought and then sold. Did you loose money? was it difficult to sell? was it expensive to run compared to other sportscars?
I'd plan to use the car for european trips (as far as southern Italy), trackdays etc. so I'd be interested to hear how owners have found the cars on the autobahn, swiss alps etc - practical things like luggage, ride height, fuel tank capacity etc!
Ideally I'd like to discuss with an owner with experience of both types of car ownership. The budget is around £75k which is cheap for a Ferrari, but would mean I could look at a high-spec GTR, or, perhaps spend a lot less if there is a 'sweet spot' price-wise. Seems the money would be relatively 'safe' in a ferrari (I understand the running costs of an F430 will be high, but it's a known quantity and quite a reliable car) I dont know enough about the Ultima's other than watching the used prices over the last few years (they seem pretty flat?).
As an aside, I'm struggling to visualise what the Ultima is like to drive. The quickest car I've driven was a Ferrari F12, I'm assuming it feels significantly quicker again... From what I've seen and read they dont seem to be particularity easy to drive (the videos I've seen on youtube and the 'ring laptimes discussed on here seem rather conservative?). I do circuit racing and have driven a fair few track cars, so scary handling or a challenge isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I guess it is unclear to me if the cars are difficult to drive quickly or the driver ability of the owners who have posted videos is more limited? The GTR at Djion is probably the only youtube clip I've seen of a GTR being driven hard (apart from the topgear track lap).
I had decided to buy a LHD F430 from europe as the value seems very good at the moment and it's likely I will either loose nothing/very little or if I'm lucky have a gently appreciating asset in the near term. But the allure of the performance of the ultima GTR's have always appealed so I am somewhat torn.
While I understand modern sports cars shouldn't really be considered 'investments' I'm interested to hear from owners how they have got on in terms of TCO on Ultima's they have built or bought and then sold. Did you loose money? was it difficult to sell? was it expensive to run compared to other sportscars?
I'd plan to use the car for european trips (as far as southern Italy), trackdays etc. so I'd be interested to hear how owners have found the cars on the autobahn, swiss alps etc - practical things like luggage, ride height, fuel tank capacity etc!
Ideally I'd like to discuss with an owner with experience of both types of car ownership. The budget is around £75k which is cheap for a Ferrari, but would mean I could look at a high-spec GTR, or, perhaps spend a lot less if there is a 'sweet spot' price-wise. Seems the money would be relatively 'safe' in a ferrari (I understand the running costs of an F430 will be high, but it's a known quantity and quite a reliable car) I dont know enough about the Ultima's other than watching the used prices over the last few years (they seem pretty flat?).
As an aside, I'm struggling to visualise what the Ultima is like to drive. The quickest car I've driven was a Ferrari F12, I'm assuming it feels significantly quicker again... From what I've seen and read they dont seem to be particularity easy to drive (the videos I've seen on youtube and the 'ring laptimes discussed on here seem rather conservative?). I do circuit racing and have driven a fair few track cars, so scary handling or a challenge isn't necessarily a bad thing, but I guess it is unclear to me if the cars are difficult to drive quickly or the driver ability of the owners who have posted videos is more limited? The GTR at Djion is probably the only youtube clip I've seen of a GTR being driven hard (apart from the topgear track lap).
You can't really compare them.
F430s/gaillardos are nice looking quite quick cars that you can take for a blast to the Alps and have a great time without any real hardship other than perhaps grounding out a few times.
TCO is best when buying used, but they are very cheap to run compared to the above, let alone compared to cars with equivalent performance.
Although you could drive to Italy, it would be in less comfort than a "normal" super car and luggage space is of course limited.
Driving wise, I liken ours to an over powered go kart, it's got plenty of grunt but is very friendly, not too difficult to catch unless you're a bit ham fisted. I don't think they're difficult to drive fast, but they are physical. I've not been overtaken on track by anything road legal. A 430 or Gallardo would be nowhere on track compared to one, you'd struggle to keep a well driven Ultima in site in a 650s, so track performance is a different world. But on a wet rainy bumpy road you'd be better off in something modern
Compared to an F12 it will depend on which engine the Ultima has, but even if the Ultima was the same performance wise or slightly slower, it would still feel much faster.
Every journey in an Ultima is an event, in a 430 or Gallardo it still is of course, but they're very mainstream, usable and anyone from a learner to granny can drive them. Ultimas are much more intense, and not really a competitor.
Don't have 430 or Gallardo experience, just a GT3 RS. In isolation journeys in that are an event and quite extreme, but again, not in the same league as a trip in the Ultima.
If you want weekend car to blow out the cobwebs of life and make you grin and laugh a little nervously when you floor it and don't mind the attention, Or tinkering, Ultimas are hard to beat.
If you want something you can jump in that you don't really need to think about driving but want a nice looking, sounding car that can do European road trips, 430 or Gallardo would be lovely.
Would probably be best if you can go and see some - I suspect from what you want to do a 430 or Gallardo will tick more boxes for you.
F430s/gaillardos are nice looking quite quick cars that you can take for a blast to the Alps and have a great time without any real hardship other than perhaps grounding out a few times.
TCO is best when buying used, but they are very cheap to run compared to the above, let alone compared to cars with equivalent performance.
Although you could drive to Italy, it would be in less comfort than a "normal" super car and luggage space is of course limited.
Driving wise, I liken ours to an over powered go kart, it's got plenty of grunt but is very friendly, not too difficult to catch unless you're a bit ham fisted. I don't think they're difficult to drive fast, but they are physical. I've not been overtaken on track by anything road legal. A 430 or Gallardo would be nowhere on track compared to one, you'd struggle to keep a well driven Ultima in site in a 650s, so track performance is a different world. But on a wet rainy bumpy road you'd be better off in something modern
Compared to an F12 it will depend on which engine the Ultima has, but even if the Ultima was the same performance wise or slightly slower, it would still feel much faster.
Every journey in an Ultima is an event, in a 430 or Gallardo it still is of course, but they're very mainstream, usable and anyone from a learner to granny can drive them. Ultimas are much more intense, and not really a competitor.
Don't have 430 or Gallardo experience, just a GT3 RS. In isolation journeys in that are an event and quite extreme, but again, not in the same league as a trip in the Ultima.
If you want weekend car to blow out the cobwebs of life and make you grin and laugh a little nervously when you floor it and don't mind the attention, Or tinkering, Ultimas are hard to beat.
If you want something you can jump in that you don't really need to think about driving but want a nice looking, sounding car that can do European road trips, 430 or Gallardo would be lovely.
Would probably be best if you can go and see some - I suspect from what you want to do a 430 or Gallardo will tick more boxes for you.
Thanks for the reply - useful insight.
I get the impression an F430 would be an 'event' it's hard to ignore the prancing horse on the steering wheel and all that entails, and I do confess that I prefer the sound of a high-reving engine to the US muscle style V8. I presume the Ultimas are a slightly different type of event - like getting into a group-c racing car.
For what I have in mind, something physical would suit me well - I'm the kind of person that (should I be able to afford one) would be happy to run an F40 as an everyday driver. I've driven road-legal race cars to the 'ring and a couple of years back I drove a track-prep'd honda integra type-r on a 3000ml euro trip (complete with cage, race seat, harnesses, rock hard suspension and lots of noise) traveling all the way to corsica.
I built my current race car and do all my own work on my other cars, so the 'tinkering' aspect of the ultima also appeals, I had been considering building one, but after building a race car I learnt it's always cheaper to buy one someone else built!
I am not really a huge badge person, but the F430 is quite unique as an ownership proposition as it's not depreciating - discounting the financial side of ownership I would have considered Nissan GTRs and GT3911's, but I think the nissan will loose more money and the 911's seem to be at the top of a heated porsche market.
The F430 is likely to be cost-neutral over 2-3yrs and potentially appreciate beyond that which is why it is the lead contender. I've discounted the gallardo as the 'safe' handling isn't really my thing.
From what I see of the ultima market, the prices seem pretty static (which is ok, as the F430 will have higher running costs to offset any appreciation).
I see there is a yellow 720bhp car for sale at the moment - it would be in budget and clearly the headline number is rather appealing, but I assume from the 'build' nature of the cars, each car has to be considered individually. perhaps a lower spec car might be more 'drivable' in the real world?
my rough plan is to buy something and keep it for 2-3yrs - probably doing 5k miles a year and hoping to get out with a fairly neutral TCO. The F430's I'm looking at are reasonably high mileage so the 10k miles shouldn't impact the value too much - I dont want a 10,000mile garage queen. I see from the nature of the ultima's they dont seem to rack up huge miles - are the prices mileage sensitive like ferraris (which I am offsetting by buying one already discounted will higher miles) - ie am I likely to loose a lot of value if I put 10k on one?
Apologies for the basic questions, but the ultimas are rare and unique...
I get the impression an F430 would be an 'event' it's hard to ignore the prancing horse on the steering wheel and all that entails, and I do confess that I prefer the sound of a high-reving engine to the US muscle style V8. I presume the Ultimas are a slightly different type of event - like getting into a group-c racing car.
For what I have in mind, something physical would suit me well - I'm the kind of person that (should I be able to afford one) would be happy to run an F40 as an everyday driver. I've driven road-legal race cars to the 'ring and a couple of years back I drove a track-prep'd honda integra type-r on a 3000ml euro trip (complete with cage, race seat, harnesses, rock hard suspension and lots of noise) traveling all the way to corsica.
I built my current race car and do all my own work on my other cars, so the 'tinkering' aspect of the ultima also appeals, I had been considering building one, but after building a race car I learnt it's always cheaper to buy one someone else built!
I am not really a huge badge person, but the F430 is quite unique as an ownership proposition as it's not depreciating - discounting the financial side of ownership I would have considered Nissan GTRs and GT3911's, but I think the nissan will loose more money and the 911's seem to be at the top of a heated porsche market.
The F430 is likely to be cost-neutral over 2-3yrs and potentially appreciate beyond that which is why it is the lead contender. I've discounted the gallardo as the 'safe' handling isn't really my thing.
From what I see of the ultima market, the prices seem pretty static (which is ok, as the F430 will have higher running costs to offset any appreciation).
I see there is a yellow 720bhp car for sale at the moment - it would be in budget and clearly the headline number is rather appealing, but I assume from the 'build' nature of the cars, each car has to be considered individually. perhaps a lower spec car might be more 'drivable' in the real world?
my rough plan is to buy something and keep it for 2-3yrs - probably doing 5k miles a year and hoping to get out with a fairly neutral TCO. The F430's I'm looking at are reasonably high mileage so the 10k miles shouldn't impact the value too much - I dont want a 10,000mile garage queen. I see from the nature of the ultima's they dont seem to rack up huge miles - are the prices mileage sensitive like ferraris (which I am offsetting by buying one already discounted will higher miles) - ie am I likely to loose a lot of value if I put 10k on one?
Apologies for the basic questions, but the ultimas are rare and unique...
My insight here, as a Ultima owner with a Ferrari 360 Spider and Aston Martin V8 Vantage sitting alongside it in the garage and having also had a fairly hardcore Exige and a 911 Turbo S during that period as well it is difficult to compare the Ultima with the vast majority of mainstream "supercars" It is probably more like Caterham in that the enjoyment comes from the pleasure of simply driving it and owning it.
It doesn't really matter which Ferrari you are looking at in the same financial ballpark as an Ultima, it will be more practical than the Ultima and the performance will be far more accessible on the road unless you are some sort of driving god. But, the sheer sense of drama of the Ultima on the road ranks up there with the more exotic Ferrari offerings.
My take on the cost of ownership thing is that the Ultima should be fairly stable and if you buy sensibly and sell sensibly then stuff should balance out. I personally wouldn't be bothered by mileage with an Ultima (I would say that cause mine has 20k miles) but then again my car started of with an SBC engine and now has an LS engine and over time bits have been changed and upgraded and it is currently getting new suspension and wheels and stuff, so a bit like "Triggers Broom" the value is in what you have when you come to sell.
With the Ferrari I think there is going to be a bunch of folk with burned fingers at some point in the future when prices for modern mass produced 360's / 430's / 458's normalise, ie stop appreciating. I don't think they will tank in value, but folk who are buying in the expectation that the £1500/£2000 per year running costs will be covered by appreciation may have an uncomfortable ownership experience. My 2 Ferrari's have been utterly reliable but there is always the potential for a really big bill if something goes wrong. I guess you could replace the Ultima engine for the cost of an unfortunate bill with an Italian exotic.
Also, with the Ferrari the mileage and value are rigidly linked and tied in with service history and owners. A £75k budget won't get you a premium F430 and really it is the premium cars which will hold and/or increase their value most. I know a few folk who are effectively just looking after their cars for the next owner in order to preserve the "value"
I did a whopping 3k miles in my GTR since getting it 10 months ago, the longest drive being a 400 mile trip to bring it home and it was perfectly comfortable so I don't think the comfort side of a Euro trip would be an issue if you travel light. Other than that trip home, all of my miles have been done on the basis that it is a nice day, sun shining, roads dry.. what the hell, lets get the Ultima out. You would need to be fairly hardcore to want to drive it on anything other than nice days because the enjoyment factor goes down a lot of notches if you have to gingerly pootle around the roads becoming increasingly aware of all the compromises in relation to traction, visability, ventilation, noise etc. Infact all the things that totally enhance the same drive on a nice day. By contrast you could, if you wanted to, jump into a modern Ferrari / Aston / Porsche / Lamborghini and be as comfortable and cocooned as you would be in your daily driver.
Anyhow, as you can tell, I am really "into" my Ultima. I love owning it and driving it and washing it and pottering (non mechanically 'cause I am a mechanical numptie) with it. All my mates love seeing it and no matter what I am doing on the road in it I am aware that for that moment, it is a centre of attention for everyone else because it is so special. To be fair tho, it is the same sense of owning something special with a Ferrari. Hey ho.. that was a ramble but hope you get something out of it
It doesn't really matter which Ferrari you are looking at in the same financial ballpark as an Ultima, it will be more practical than the Ultima and the performance will be far more accessible on the road unless you are some sort of driving god. But, the sheer sense of drama of the Ultima on the road ranks up there with the more exotic Ferrari offerings.
My take on the cost of ownership thing is that the Ultima should be fairly stable and if you buy sensibly and sell sensibly then stuff should balance out. I personally wouldn't be bothered by mileage with an Ultima (I would say that cause mine has 20k miles) but then again my car started of with an SBC engine and now has an LS engine and over time bits have been changed and upgraded and it is currently getting new suspension and wheels and stuff, so a bit like "Triggers Broom" the value is in what you have when you come to sell.
With the Ferrari I think there is going to be a bunch of folk with burned fingers at some point in the future when prices for modern mass produced 360's / 430's / 458's normalise, ie stop appreciating. I don't think they will tank in value, but folk who are buying in the expectation that the £1500/£2000 per year running costs will be covered by appreciation may have an uncomfortable ownership experience. My 2 Ferrari's have been utterly reliable but there is always the potential for a really big bill if something goes wrong. I guess you could replace the Ultima engine for the cost of an unfortunate bill with an Italian exotic.
Also, with the Ferrari the mileage and value are rigidly linked and tied in with service history and owners. A £75k budget won't get you a premium F430 and really it is the premium cars which will hold and/or increase their value most. I know a few folk who are effectively just looking after their cars for the next owner in order to preserve the "value"
I did a whopping 3k miles in my GTR since getting it 10 months ago, the longest drive being a 400 mile trip to bring it home and it was perfectly comfortable so I don't think the comfort side of a Euro trip would be an issue if you travel light. Other than that trip home, all of my miles have been done on the basis that it is a nice day, sun shining, roads dry.. what the hell, lets get the Ultima out. You would need to be fairly hardcore to want to drive it on anything other than nice days because the enjoyment factor goes down a lot of notches if you have to gingerly pootle around the roads becoming increasingly aware of all the compromises in relation to traction, visability, ventilation, noise etc. Infact all the things that totally enhance the same drive on a nice day. By contrast you could, if you wanted to, jump into a modern Ferrari / Aston / Porsche / Lamborghini and be as comfortable and cocooned as you would be in your daily driver.
Anyhow, as you can tell, I am really "into" my Ultima. I love owning it and driving it and washing it and pottering (non mechanically 'cause I am a mechanical numptie) with it. All my mates love seeing it and no matter what I am doing on the road in it I am aware that for that moment, it is a centre of attention for everyone else because it is so special. To be fair tho, it is the same sense of owning something special with a Ferrari. Hey ho.. that was a ramble but hope you get something out of it
Edited by renmure on Wednesday 16th September 09:56
Hi I speak as an ex F430 owner.
I currently have a Supercharged Ultima GTR it is "de-tuned" 525-550 BHP at the contact patch (Proper Dyno) there is potential for 900-ish with the current internals and mods (LSX GM Motorsports Iron block) the engine was built by a respected chevy specialist but was not MY choice specification as I bought the car 2nd hand.
I, given a second bite of the cherry might consider an alloy block over the LSX Block(it is overkill rated at 2500BHP), I think still supercharged (centrifugal) but optimally to the 550BHP I have now.
The F430 is an occasion to drive I was going to say LHD would be horrible but I gather you are in USA.
I bought the F430 Manual Box
at one year old with hardly any miles on it.
I loved the abuse the car could take in its stride (none of the tail happy F360 left in it) of course the engine management makes you feel like a driving god and controlled rear slides are easy to achieve (if that's your bag).
I owned the car for about a year (which is the sweet spot for my "boredom" threshold) yes this is easily a daily drive, with none of the cam belt phobic issues of previous models, that engine is Sweeet. I'd love it in a GTR.
I think leggy mileage issues of old are becoming less important now.
Now the downside, I had cold sweats leaving the car anywhere but at home, always looking over my shoulder to see it was safe and not being keyed up by a**holes.
The car is too wide for British roads IMO and this is a major downer.
I drove an F1 but preferred the involvement of heel and toeing and getting a clean shift incidentally not the easiest car to get right every time (practice makes perfect!)
I'd suggest a good investment at the moment.
The GTR IMO is not a daily driver, there are some diehards around but I am not one of them.
The GTR is an occasion to drive also and mostly you can make it drive how you want.
What is obvious is the Fezza can't hide it's weight in this company.
Even a modestly powered SBC will see off the Fezza.
The GTR is raw, as analogue as a Timex from the seventies.
I have had my GTR for four or five years now which in ownership terms is a record for me.
The downside for me is manoeuvrability, rear view and cabin space (though not bothered by this now) .
I have fitted power steering to mine for slow manoeuvring (I know a bit OTT but I have to do a lot of shuffling to garage it).
Rear view is appalling there are several fixes for this but all IMO are not as good as a rear view mirror would be if it were possible).
I will buy another Fezza in the future.
I love my GTR and at this point I still cant see a reason to sell.
If you buy a GTR and get over the six month OMG I feel claustrophobic every time I drive it, you won't want to part with it.
ETS I forgot to mention the F430 Brakes (carbon ceramic) IMO this is a major step up from the std set up though a bit vague when cold once scrubbed in they are without doubt the best brakes I have ever had on a car, they are awesome and tire squealing stops are possible without interference from the anti-lock, such is the feel and feedback.
I currently have a Supercharged Ultima GTR it is "de-tuned" 525-550 BHP at the contact patch (Proper Dyno) there is potential for 900-ish with the current internals and mods (LSX GM Motorsports Iron block) the engine was built by a respected chevy specialist but was not MY choice specification as I bought the car 2nd hand.
I, given a second bite of the cherry might consider an alloy block over the LSX Block(it is overkill rated at 2500BHP), I think still supercharged (centrifugal) but optimally to the 550BHP I have now.
The F430 is an occasion to drive I was going to say LHD would be horrible but I gather you are in USA.
I bought the F430 Manual Box
at one year old with hardly any miles on it.I loved the abuse the car could take in its stride (none of the tail happy F360 left in it) of course the engine management makes you feel like a driving god and controlled rear slides are easy to achieve (if that's your bag).
I owned the car for about a year (which is the sweet spot for my "boredom" threshold) yes this is easily a daily drive, with none of the cam belt phobic issues of previous models, that engine is Sweeet. I'd love it in a GTR.
I think leggy mileage issues of old are becoming less important now.
Now the downside, I had cold sweats leaving the car anywhere but at home, always looking over my shoulder to see it was safe and not being keyed up by a**holes.
The car is too wide for British roads IMO and this is a major downer.
I drove an F1 but preferred the involvement of heel and toeing and getting a clean shift incidentally not the easiest car to get right every time (practice makes perfect!)
I'd suggest a good investment at the moment.
The GTR IMO is not a daily driver, there are some diehards around but I am not one of them.
The GTR is an occasion to drive also and mostly you can make it drive how you want.
What is obvious is the Fezza can't hide it's weight in this company.
Even a modestly powered SBC will see off the Fezza.
The GTR is raw, as analogue as a Timex from the seventies.
I have had my GTR for four or five years now which in ownership terms is a record for me.
The downside for me is manoeuvrability, rear view and cabin space (though not bothered by this now) .
I have fitted power steering to mine for slow manoeuvring (I know a bit OTT but I have to do a lot of shuffling to garage it).
Rear view is appalling there are several fixes for this but all IMO are not as good as a rear view mirror would be if it were possible).
I will buy another Fezza in the future.
I love my GTR and at this point I still cant see a reason to sell.
If you buy a GTR and get over the six month OMG I feel claustrophobic every time I drive it, you won't want to part with it.
ETS I forgot to mention the F430 Brakes (carbon ceramic) IMO this is a major step up from the std set up though a bit vague when cold once scrubbed in they are without doubt the best brakes I have ever had on a car, they are awesome and tire squealing stops are possible without interference from the anti-lock, such is the feel and feedback.
Edited by F.C. on Wednesday 16th September 10:14
paulmnz said:
Thread update (since no one ever does!)
I ended up buying a F430 in november. I'd still be keen to get a passenger ride in an ultima, as I greatly admire them and I will have one in the future.
no no no Paul.......you dont want a passenger ride, otherwise i am certain your 430 will be up for sale and you will be kicking your selfI ended up buying a F430 in november. I'd still be keen to get a passenger ride in an ultima, as I greatly admire them and I will have one in the future.
Beware don't go in a Ultima You'll be disappointed with the 430 so much performance will feel like been in a van and you will sell it . As some know I've just sold my pro charged can am . Every other car I've been in feels flat even my m400 noble which happily out runs gallardo s . Probably only car left to scare me now is a atom on set off The jolts are awesome cars Mine only went so I could own my poster car from been a kid
A 430 isn't really a competitor an alternative to an Ultima though is it, just like a Gallardo, or R8 or any other older junior "super car" isn't.
If you want a nice weekend toy car, that gets you attention, has flat depreciation and are not interested too much in real performance, I can't see you can go wrong with any of the above - other than perhaps the current prices of some which are crazy. What's not to like, they look nice, are nippy, nice inside, sound good. For most people that is enough and an Ultima is too extreme, perhaps too scary and not "prestigious enough" too for some?
But, if you want something to blast away life's cobwebs, scare you, give you an old Le Mans car experience, make you giggle like a child and have no badge stigma, just wonder and awe by passers by, you cannot beat one.
If you want a nice weekend toy car, that gets you attention, has flat depreciation and are not interested too much in real performance, I can't see you can go wrong with any of the above - other than perhaps the current prices of some which are crazy. What's not to like, they look nice, are nippy, nice inside, sound good. For most people that is enough and an Ultima is too extreme, perhaps too scary and not "prestigious enough" too for some?
But, if you want something to blast away life's cobwebs, scare you, give you an old Le Mans car experience, make you giggle like a child and have no badge stigma, just wonder and awe by passers by, you cannot beat one.
I'm disappointed with the responses here - I hope it's not representative of most ultima owners. having said that, there are a couple of posters in this thread I will contact if/when I'm in the market for their more balanced view. To say a Ferrari is slow, only for show offs and van-like is a bit strong. Anyway, I'm very happy with my choice.
458 feels very similar to a sbc Ultima but very much easier to drive fast. New 911 turbo s will destroy any ultima on any road- same will be for the Ferrari 488. On a smooth race track and the balance will massively swing to and Ultima but technology is moving on so quickly that it is now a choice of how much you want to spend and how skilled you are at exploiting the power. I loved the Ultima (over 13 years and many miles) and modern super cars. It is what you want at the end of the day that makes you happy.
You could probably use your Porsche analogy all the way back to a 996 turbo to be fair
I think some people initially put an Ultima in the same bracket as junior super cars purely because of price, you get a lot of performance and drama for your money. But they're simply not as able on most British roads as a modern super car - which is a good and bad thing, depending on your viewpoint. In the wet the gap widens, especially with Kumhos!
In that scenario, our GT3 RS simply disappears , and an RS would stay nowhere near a modern Turbo.
As Guy says, on a track, this totally reverses and there is nothing from the main super car manufacturers, other than the 3 HyperCars that will stay with a well sorted Ultima on track. Perhaps a 675lt may stay close, but that's it.
I'm not sure why people compare Ultimas with those super cars, I guess it's the shape. You don't see people looking to compare them to a 620R cater ham, or hi spec Atom, or a Radical, and that's what an Ultima should be compared to - an extreme occasional use car, which in the right conditions, on the right day simply cannot be beaten if you like that sort of thing.
If you don't, you're almost spoilt for choice with good quality stuff from Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi, Aston etc.
I think some people initially put an Ultima in the same bracket as junior super cars purely because of price, you get a lot of performance and drama for your money. But they're simply not as able on most British roads as a modern super car - which is a good and bad thing, depending on your viewpoint. In the wet the gap widens, especially with Kumhos!
In that scenario, our GT3 RS simply disappears , and an RS would stay nowhere near a modern Turbo.
As Guy says, on a track, this totally reverses and there is nothing from the main super car manufacturers, other than the 3 HyperCars that will stay with a well sorted Ultima on track. Perhaps a 675lt may stay close, but that's it.
I'm not sure why people compare Ultimas with those super cars, I guess it's the shape. You don't see people looking to compare them to a 620R cater ham, or hi spec Atom, or a Radical, and that's what an Ultima should be compared to - an extreme occasional use car, which in the right conditions, on the right day simply cannot be beaten if you like that sort of thing.
If you don't, you're almost spoilt for choice with good quality stuff from Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Audi, Aston etc.
To me it comes down to this: If you want to be coddled by electrons that correct every ham fisted thing you do in the car then go buy a P..F..L.......take your pick. These cars modulate your shock rates, move your braking basis. regulate your traction in at least two vectors and make sure you never know the difference. Kinda like having sex with an android. An Ultima will speak to your heart and let you know if you have exceeded a boundary. Kinda like making love to a real women who loves you but has real limits. But when you get it right, there's no better feeling in the world. The lady or the car. Lee
Yeah, but modern Italian and German exotica allow you to switch between Road, Track and Race mode at the push of a button. Other than having a proclivity for self flagellation there can't be much of an argument against having a horse for every course under you all the time if you have that option on a road car.
I could keep the electronics turned on and drive my Porsche Turbo S on the road like I was a driving-god and would defy anyone in an Ultima to keep up, or I could turn everything off and drive the same car on the same road in the same way I would drive my Ultima..... cautiously!!
I could keep the electronics turned on and drive my Porsche Turbo S on the road like I was a driving-god and would defy anyone in an Ultima to keep up, or I could turn everything off and drive the same car on the same road in the same way I would drive my Ultima..... cautiously!!
Totally agree Jim. Why do we keep having these comments about so called 'pure driving' without driver aids? As Jim says if you have them you can turn them off. Driving an Ultima, even when f you are Lewis Hamilton, is probably one of the most difficult cars to drive to its limit and get right. I doubt if anyone in this community has that ability. Of course some are happy to drive their car slowly and get enjoyment from that but others want to push on and need help from some of the driver aids. The thing to remember is we are all different. You only have to turn up at an Ultima meet to see that. We all want different things from our cars. Sorry to have a rant but some people forget we are all individuals!
458 feels very similar to a sbc Ultima but very much easier to drive fast. New 911 turbo s will destroy any ultima on any road- same will be for the Ferrari 488. On a smooth race track and the balance will massively swing to and Ultima but technology is moving on so quickly that it is now a choice of how much you want to spend and how skilled you are at exploiting the power. I loved the Ultima (over 13 years and many miles) and modern super cars. It is what you want at the end of the day that makes you happy.
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff