Pylon rear wing on GTR

[chuntington101]

F.C. said:

Storer said:

Now before I start I should mention I have had a good deal of red wine, but....

Thinking out of the box, why do we put the wing at the back? If it creates downforce then why do we not put it in the middle of the car so that the downforce is evenly distributed over both axles!
Yes, it would look daft and we would loose some of the leverage effect. But are racing cars built as they are because of regulations? Would a wing in the middle of the car be more effective?

Discuss........


Paul

Been done.

See Ford RS 200, Lancia Stratos etc.

I think the RS200 'wing' was actually a intake for the massive intercooler and not for any aero benefit.

Even group B car speeds are not that high and thus aero doesn't play a massive part. Also due to the angle of has most rally cars are driven at, even in tarmac, high downforce can be dangerous. When you increase had it's very easy to loose significant downforce. Subaru pit a lot of effort into this with their rear wing. If you remember it has loads of vertical fins. This was to try and keep the air flowing over the rear wing in a straight-ish fashion even when the car was pretty sideways.

F1 cars used to have small wings mounted above the side-pods. Also I think a lot of rules state that the wing can't sit higher than the highest part of the car.

I do agree though that red wine really helps when it comes to thinking outside the box. Must mention that to my boss tomorrow!

[V8Dom]

deadscoob said:

845
The vents are really effective.

Dom
The wing on Rustis car wasn't much further back than standard, plus his had far more front downforce and a lower cog than a normal Ultima, so I not think it's a simple thing to replicate.

i know im studying all the photos

[845ste]

WOW!!

very bad!
interest system of clam

[confusionhunter]

I know someone that has access to cfd software (Computational Fluid Dynamics) ie simulated wind tunnel. Does anyone have a ready made model of an ultima we could use and perhaps we can put some facts and figures behind these ideas?

[Storer]

Who has one of the Ultima RC cars???



Paul

[ezakimak]

Dom, thanks for posting those photos, its got me interested in an Ultima again.

Ryan

[dandare]

Rusti's Ultima looks well done. Nice panel gap. I would have hinged the bonnet from the front though, as a safety measure.
It does seem like the way to go- having the clip split and the rear part fixed. It also solves the clearance problems with the diffuser. Only drawback is a slightly higher cost, or am I missing something?

Does anybody have the GTR as a CAD file? How accurate is it?
I wouldn't mind having a play with some design ideas.

[macgtech]

Storer said:

Now before I start I should mention I have had a good deal of red wine, but....

Thinking out of the box, why do we put the wing at the back? If it creates downforce then why do we not put it in the middle of the car so that the downforce is evenly distributed over both axles!
Yes, it would look daft and we would loose some of the leverage effect. But are racing cars built as they are because of regulations? Would a wing in the middle of the car be more effective?

Discuss........


Paul

If a car like this is properly designed with a full underfloor/diffuser arrangement, the whole car should act like a wing in sectional view. The splitters and wings etc are merely trimming devices.

The issue we have found is that the on the original setup the splitter and wing are the only DF devices (understandable for a road car as this would make it totally inappropriate for the road) which is where we lost out heavily to the thoroughbred race cars on the grid. All sorted now...

[deadscoob]

Look forward to seeing it Jonny.

I think it's fair to say that a modern GT3 car (or whatever they're called now) are like that, despite appearing to look the same as the road cars. The aero enhanced grip they have is incredible.

[V8Dom]

If you want to see an ultima road car with the car as full aero i have a little supprise coming for you all.

its not finished yet but in its later stages of completition and will raise the bar .

its not a factory car either, and been sworn to secrecy but what ive seen is incredible.

[UltimaCH]

Dom, you are whetting our appetits

[dandare]

V8Dom said:

If you want to see an ultima road car with the car as full aero i have a little supprise coming for you all.

its not finished yet but in its later stages of completition and will raise the bar .

its not a factory car either, and been sworn to secrecy but what ive seen is incredible.

I'll get some tissues...

[key750]

What about this?
https://www.instagram.com/p/ir60BvITMk/

[UltimaPanthera]

key750 said:

What about this?
https://www.instagram.com/p/ir60BvITMk/

Looks familiar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk2nlZzFFBA

[deadscoob]

Love the look of Ratgtr., very c5r. Wanted to do the black rear on mine, wish I had after seeing that.

[Davrianman]

In case anyone is after the model I used, simply download Google Sketchup then look for "Ultima GTR" in the library to download. It's completely free and great for visualising ideas. Lots of on line tutorials I case you are like me and still remember using a BBC B computer..... :-)

Mart

[srreck]

Mart,
The position for the rear wing should be calculated accordingly with the amount of downforce produced by the front of car. Moving the rear wing backwards is the way to achieve more downforce at the rear (longer lever effect). Excesive rear downforce will be a handicap for the front of the car causing even flip effect. This will force you to increase the front downforce with extra canards or similar bits.
IMHO is just a matter of a correct balance. Leaving the aesthetics apart I would choose safety.

Cheers,
Javier


Some comments here.... http://www.f1technical.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=6...

[UltimaCH]

For those who own or have owned older Porsche 911s will remember the factory recommendation NOT to use the "whale tail" on the rear without the front splitter. It is an aerodynamic combination.

[chuntington101]

UltimaCH said:

For those who own or have owned older Porsche 911s will remember the factory recommendation NOT to use the "whale tail" on the rear without the front splitter. It is an aerodynamic combination.

that lead to some drivers putting their cars into the nearest hedge!

I can see why Porsche told people that.

[V8Dom]

UltimaPanthera said:

key750 said:

What about this?
https://www.instagram.com/p/ir60BvITMk/

Looks familiar...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fk2nlZzFFBA

jeff car by the looks of it