Fuel overheating issues solved
Discussion
BogBeast said:
I would submit that if you suspect you have a fuel temp issue its probably best to measure it first.
To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
Too hot is when your car stalls with vapour lock no idea on temp as fuel gives off vapour all the time, just gives more as it heats up so I guess you won't know till it happens To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
F.C. said:
BogBeast said:
I would submit that if you suspect you have a fuel temp issue its probably best to measure it first.
To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
Too hot is when your car stalls with vapour lock no idea on temp as fuel gives off vapour all the time, just gives more as it heats up so I guess you won't know till it happens To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
Touching the fuel surge tank it was hot like a household radiator - the tanks themselves never appeared to be hot. I think therefore it is the fuel running round in a loop between the surge tank, the regulator, the HP pump and not being used when engine not under load.
I guess an alternative solution is revving the engine like crazy when sat in traffic to burn fuel!!!
No issues at all since the FOD unit, and I have been caught up in traffic which I still get nervous about!
Mark
BogBeast said:
I would submit that if you suspect you have a fuel temp issue its probably best to measure it first.
To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
I agree you need to know if you have a problem.To that end I would ask:
How hot is too hot?
Where should you measure it?
What should you measure it with?
You will see in my post above that I have a temperature probe fitted to the regulator and at 60 degrees you have got a problem!
Paul
Storer said:
I agree you need to know if you have a problem.
You will see in my post above that I have a temperature probe fitted to the regulator and at 60 degrees you have got a problem!
Paul
Sorry, absolutely, 66 sounds way too much however I wondered if there was a figure that was the ideal max from a design point of view - seen plenty of articles and advice that states that high fuel temp is bad, but yet to find a definitive figure to aim for in the real worldYou will see in my post above that I have a temperature probe fitted to the regulator and at 60 degrees you have got a problem!
Paul
I have in in-line gauge adapter that I will use for pressure monitoring, just after the filter prior to the rails which I could temporarily swap for some sort of temp sensor, but I wondered if it was better to monitor at the rails (which I could do with extra effort and some cost) - I am running returnless so my 'feeling' is that might be the best place as my assumption is that is where the worst of the heat could be.
As to how, my gauge set (SPA Dual digital gauges) doesn't support a Fuel temp option - I wondered if anybody had a suggestion for a VFM way of measuring (cheap NPT sensor and a meter?)
MarkWebb said:
Having spent 6 years wondering about this. I conclude that there are so many things that can cause & affect this that you should just think yourself lucky if you don't get it! But if you do there is a solution and although a little pricey it is the best way to go because you can spend literally years going round and round in circles. Retrofit in tank pumps are a good place to start!
BTW, this guy http://stores.ebay.co.uk/Torques-U-KSeems to sell the in-tank option that Mark uses - http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AEROMOTIVE-Phantom-340-L...
I have used him for AN fittings and found them to be great quality and a great price.
Thats where they came from!
Incidentally and I hope he doesn't mind me saying this:
mt308 who fitted the FOD on my recommendation had a problem this weekend after spending a long time in traffic on a hot day! He got home no problem but engine stopped when idling in his garage whilst he checked oil level. Lots of gurgling in swirl pot which felt hot. Now he needs to work on increasing the pressure at the point of entry to the hp pump. This can be done by increasing the pressure in the swirl pot to just under the max that the lp pumps can produce (otherwise air will not bleed out) and or by reducing the pressure drop between swirl pot and hp pump by looking at pipe size/length, fittings etc which may restrict flow. In short FOD has helped a lot but it seems not enough in his case. Another option is to try running the FOD in returnless mode where no fuel is returned to the swirl pot at all.
Incidentally and I hope he doesn't mind me saying this:
mt308 who fitted the FOD on my recommendation had a problem this weekend after spending a long time in traffic on a hot day! He got home no problem but engine stopped when idling in his garage whilst he checked oil level. Lots of gurgling in swirl pot which felt hot. Now he needs to work on increasing the pressure at the point of entry to the hp pump. This can be done by increasing the pressure in the swirl pot to just under the max that the lp pumps can produce (otherwise air will not bleed out) and or by reducing the pressure drop between swirl pot and hp pump by looking at pipe size/length, fittings etc which may restrict flow. In short FOD has helped a lot but it seems not enough in his case. Another option is to try running the FOD in returnless mode where no fuel is returned to the swirl pot at all.
MarkWebb said:
Another option is to try running the FOD in returnless mode where no fuel is returned to the swirl pot at all.
Which is how I am running mine.I also have a restrictor on the tank return from the swirl pot to give positive pressure for the HP pump which is only 4 inches from the pot.
Paul
Storer said:
MarkWebb said:
Another option is to try running the FOD in returnless mode where no fuel is returned to the swirl pot at all.
Which is how I am running mine.I also have a restrictor on the tank return from the swirl pot to give positive pressure for the HP pump which is only 4 inches from the pot.
Paul
I thought all was fine, disappointing to get an issue again. Amazing how much quieter the pump is with the FOD. At idle it runs as 1 amp rather than 10 amps. You can turn it up to full (10amps) manually using the FOD controller hooked up to a laptop. When you do this is really buzzes!
It says not recommended for cars that suffer from vapour lock. Interesting to see how both of us get on now in this setting.
Mark
Storer said:
Seems to work well but I still need to 'tune' the software.
No hot fuel issues since fitment.
Paul
interestingly My tuner says I'm asking for trouble using FOD returnless with my boosted application he reckons it won't keep up with sudden changes and I run the risk of leaning out.No hot fuel issues since fitment.
Paul
Ironically he said it would better work (for me) with a return.
If wanting to use it as a 'return' system with a FPR, and wanting to maintain a fuel rail pressure of 58psi, what should the following be set to:
1) FOD controller
2) FPR?
If both are set to the 'ideal' pressure of 58, will that result in least possible fuel movement while still not starving during sudden throttle?
I'm just curious how the system works (how accurately it can adjust to sudden throttle application)...
Thanks
1) FOD controller
2) FPR?
If both are set to the 'ideal' pressure of 58, will that result in least possible fuel movement while still not starving during sudden throttle?
I'm just curious how the system works (how accurately it can adjust to sudden throttle application)...
Thanks
F.C. said:
Storer said:
Seems to work well but I still need to 'tune' the software.
No hot fuel issues since fitment.
Paul
interestingly My tuner says I'm asking for trouble using FOD returnless with my boosted application he reckons it won't keep up with sudden changes and I run the risk of leaning out.No hot fuel issues since fitment.
Paul
Ironically he said it would better work (for me) with a return.
If you switch from FOD you are effectively switching the system off.
I suspect if you are planning a track day you would tweak the settings for a higher pump output.
The system is quite tuneable so you can set it up how you want it from your laptop while running if you wish.
Paul
Storer said:
You can use it with a return if necessary. My system was already returnless so wanted to try that first.
If you switch from FOD you are effectively switching the system off.
I suspect if you are planning a track day you would tweak the settings for a higher pump output.
The system is quite tuneable so you can set it up how you want it from your laptop while running if you wish.
Paul
I think I will fit the FOD with a return, more for the benefit of less amp draw (and the bonus of less heat bleeding into the fuel system) on my electrical system, in theory I will be able to run the air-con on full fan with headlights blazing in heavy traffic,wipers on full, radiator fans kicking in and still see a small charge going to the battery!If you switch from FOD you are effectively switching the system off.
I suspect if you are planning a track day you would tweak the settings for a higher pump output.
The system is quite tuneable so you can set it up how you want it from your laptop while running if you wish.
Paul
Incidentally I have noticed (since I bought mine) that Professional Products FOD has been unavailable for purchase for some time, just wondering why?
has there been some negative press? can't find much myself but seems a bit odd.
It could be there is little demand.
Let's face it, you would not design a fuel system like the Ultima's if you were starting now.
Fuel would be in one central tank with built in sump/pot. One hp pump controlled by the ECU and single fine filter. One tank outlet to engine and one return from the rail.
Plus better aero and engine cooling from the side vents.
Paul
Let's face it, you would not design a fuel system like the Ultima's if you were starting now.
Fuel would be in one central tank with built in sump/pot. One hp pump controlled by the ECU and single fine filter. One tank outlet to engine and one return from the rail.
Plus better aero and engine cooling from the side vents.
Paul
Storer said:
It could be there is little demand.
Let's face it, you would not design a fuel system like the Ultima's if you were starting now.
Fuel would be in one central tank with built in sump/pot. One hp pump controlled by the ECU and single fine filter. One tank outlet to engine and one return from the rail.
Plus better aero and engine cooling from the side vents.
Paul
Good point.Let's face it, you would not design a fuel system like the Ultima's if you were starting now.
Fuel would be in one central tank with built in sump/pot. One hp pump controlled by the ECU and single fine filter. One tank outlet to engine and one return from the rail.
Plus better aero and engine cooling from the side vents.
Paul
Gassing Station | Ultima | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff