Discussion
EXPANDED : At least one joint is bad I have looked on the web today and found some 930 Porsche cv joints that have been modified with chromemoly cages and deburring ect ect . Number 1 I am assuming that the stock Ultima axel is a 930 part?????? Number 2 has anyone had any experience with upgraded CV joints? Lee
Thanks Steve, yes I too believe that its a custom axle with stock 930 CVs attached. They are marked GKN and the part number is there somewhere in the 4 different sets of numbers. The reason Im asking if anyone has upgraded their axles is these only have 30,000 miles on them and that seems a bit short on service life. Has anyone else had similar failure in this timeline. I'm probably a victim of my own antics, my driveway is a 5 turn hill climb, a trip up that without a little wheel spin is usually the end of a good day out with the car. lee
Seems like there are a lot of aftermarket CV joints out there, not sure of the quality. Some are very high quality, stronger and lighter. Remember that the inner and outer CVs are a different size. The wheel hub end is 25 spline fitted to a 100mm OD 86mm PCD 32mm wide 6 bolt CV joint and the transaxle side is 28 spline fitted to a 108mm OD 94mm PCD 40mm wide 6 bolt CV joint. I would guess that the Porsche maintenance schedule suggest greasing the CV x number of miles.
Two good videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZOCjwSXgkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fej4x2mV0SQ
Not sure how old your Ultima is, possibly the grease wasn't the best. Using one of these types of grease I suspect will help as it is very sticky: Red Line CV-2 Synthetic or Neo HPCC1, especially the Neo. An aero boot and also a plate between the flange and CV can help keep the grease on the CV joint it self.
Two good videos:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZOCjwSXgkQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fej4x2mV0SQ
Not sure how old your Ultima is, possibly the grease wasn't the best. Using one of these types of grease I suspect will help as it is very sticky: Red Line CV-2 Synthetic or Neo HPCC1, especially the Neo. An aero boot and also a plate between the flange and CV can help keep the grease on the CV joint it self.
THE PLOT THICKENS: After going through the axles and finding nothing of significance I spoke with a friend who owns a shop that wrenches on Porsche's and Ferrari's. He suggested to check the stub axle. specifically for axial play, sure enough with the axles off you can grab the rotor and hold the stub axle on the inside of the upright and on one side you can rotate the rotor maybe .030. That's just a guess but its not much play. My friend indicated that they had the same problem on the 550 Ferrari but here is where it gets interesting. He suggests applying green loctite to the splines on the axle and then quickly getting it reinstalled before it sets up. He indicates that they did this to perhaps 5 or 6 550s and never had another problem. Sounds a little backyard if you know what I mean, but the guys is a friend and hes not trying to sell me anything so Im going to give it a shot. lee
I dont know how much detail you can see in this picture but this is after the uprights where media tumbled. I always disliked the fact that the course castings as presented are a b.... to keep clean and in fact you cant because oil just clings to the grain of the casting. So much for that problem. In the process of working through this issue I went on line and watched a Utube called prepping a 930 cv. The folks in the clip are offroad guys but the same thing applies to our usage. Basically they are suggesting you polish the groves in the C.V.s for better life of the joint under hard usage.
The third thing I learned is there are upgraded gauges and and center sections available for the 930 joint. I can hear it know, when was the last time one broke, the factory set records, yes I know that, but I think if I was getting up over 600 hp on the street and I was in the middle of building the car a little work with the grinder and a few bucks for the upgrades might avoid a big problem down the road or maybe a small problem at the wrong time.
NOBODY AS COME FORWARD WITH WERE THE OUTBOARD C.V WAS SOURCED ???????????? SOMEBODY MUST HAVE FIGURED THIS OUT! PLEASE SHARE Lee
I am broken at the side of the road. Drivers side outer cv joint gone completely.. drive shaft moves up and down an inch.. are drive shafts different between gearboxes i have g50/52... looks like i need outer cv complete or centre shaft if the end is damaged.. just driving along and hit accereator and bang!!!!! Some one said shocks too long on theses cars and when jacked up too much strain on cv. Anyone found this? Roads in cheshire bumpy so shock will be at full length sometimes while cv turning
V8Dom said:
I am broken at the side of the road. Drivers side outer cv joint gone completely.. drive shaft moves up and down an inch.. are drive shafts different between gearboxes i have g50/52... looks like i need outer cv complete or centre shaft if the end is damaged.. just driving along and hit accereator and bang!!!!! Some one said shocks too long on theses cars and when jacked up too much strain on cv. Anyone found this? Roads in cheshire bumpy so shock will be at full length sometimes while cv turning
It will be interesting to see if the CV is dry when you remove it and all the grease migrated to the boot as in the video clip. Has anyone fitted the CV savers?Great information
V8Dom said:
One question i do have... if i jave limoted slip diff. Shoukdnt i have some drive forward.. even with one driveshaft broken... i have nothing other than broken drive shaft turning in cv?
I think it depends on your Type of diff you have. If you have an ATB type diff I dont think you would have drive (ie something like a quiafe). But a gripper plate type diff should lock the diff meaning you should have drive. Or Wavetrac which cleverly does both should give you drive too.xrtim said:
V8Dom said:
I am broken at the side of the road. Drivers side outer cv joint gone completely.. drive shaft moves up and down an inch.. are drive shafts different between gearboxes i have g50/52... looks like i need outer cv complete or centre shaft if the end is damaged.. just driving along and hit accereator and bang!!!!! Some one said shocks too long on theses cars and when jacked up too much strain on cv. Anyone found this? Roads in cheshire bumpy so shock will be at full length sometimes while cv turning
It will be interesting to see if the CV is dry when you remove it and all the grease migrated to the boot as in the video clip. Has anyone fitted the CV savers?Great information
Greesed then 200 miles ago..
The question about the range of motion: compared to my Renault R5 Turbo the range of motion that a Ultima sees is extremely limited and I have never seen a problem on that car. I think the limiting issue on U joints as used on the Ultima would be power. That said, many of the Ultima's have very high levels of power and we don't see that as an issue on this forum very often. The click that was in my car, that started this thread, was not U joint related after 30,000 miles they looked great.
I think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
I think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
ROWDYRENAULT said:
The question about the range of motion: compared to my Renault R5 Turbo the range of motion that a Ultima sees is extremely limited and I have never seen a problem on that car. I think the limiting issue on U joints as used on the Ultima would be power. That said, many of the Ultima's have very high levels of power and we don't see that as an issue on this forum very often. The click that was in my car, that started this thread, was not U joint related after 30,000 miles they looked great.
I think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
the drive shafts lee are the ones already in the car... i just re greased them recently as gearbox and engine was out .I think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
Anyway its not the CV joint... the drive shaft has snapped....... directly where the splines start(presume weakest point). very clean brake... no twisting within break in metal
Amyone got any spare drive shafts please... i think the new ones are quite expensive
Edited by V8Dom on Sunday 18th September 18:38
ROWDYRENAULT said:
The question about the range of motion: compared to my Renault R5 Turbo the range of motion that a Ultima sees is extremely limited and I have never seen a problem on that car. I think the limiting issue on U joints as used on the Ultima would be power. That said, many of the Ultima's have very high levels of power and we don't see that as an issue on this forum very often. The click that was in my car, that started this thread, was not U joint related after 30,000 miles they looked great.
I think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
i ask about range of motion because if the car is jacked up wheels off the ground the cv joints wont move enough to bolt to the hub... you have to put bolts in loose then lower car to do bolts up. when you jack the car up in the air the wheel will hardly turn as cv joints at max angleI think the issue of the U joint failing at 200 miles after a re-grease answers itself. Please don't take this wrong, but I would take a hard look at the way that U joint comes apart and I will suggest that your going to find something out of order in the rebuild. Easy to do or the c clip wasn't seated. 200 miles to failure probably isn't a coincidental lee
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