Discussion
An original SBC Chevy from the 60's/70's was about 370hp in its most powerful form in stock trim. A modern day equivalent like the LS3 is ~430hp in stock trim with the difference in output coming about through GM evolving the design over the years, using modern day techniques to enhance the manufacturing, the efficiency and generally improving the design to make the LS series engines much easier to build and maintain with modular parts, reusable joints/gaskets etc.
The improvement in output makes the LS engines less stressed whilst producing good power and torque. To raise the SBC to stock LS3 output requires work, pistons, heads, cam shafts etc. all of which provide good results but in essence raises the duty above what they were originally designed to do. There is always a compromise when you make something work harder!
The improvement in output makes the LS engines less stressed whilst producing good power and torque. To raise the SBC to stock LS3 output requires work, pistons, heads, cam shafts etc. all of which provide good results but in essence raises the duty above what they were originally designed to do. There is always a compromise when you make something work harder!
'There are no advantages to the SBC.'
I disagree actually....
My argument might somewhat be unconventional, but it, of course depends on your requirements. And yes I have driven an LS3'd Ultima.
first of all i concede: The LS3 is the staple modern day diet for Ultimas IMHO (with SBCs being used for many many years before). There are many LS3 successful installs, proven reliability and better MPG than the SBCs. However........IMHO None of the alternatives I have considered, SOUND quite the same as an SBC. Quite simply the SBC is the angriest, loudest, most evocative sounding engine I've come across! It exudes attitude that almost takes over the car!
I thought the SBC I had was a lemon so I was genuinely looking at S8 and R8 V10s, of course, LS series, and while they do sound eipc, they do sound like a lot of modern V8s ie RS4s etc. For me it turns out my SBC wasnt a lemon and i simply couldn't justify the cost/performance difference. and BTW when I say performance I mean MPG and driveability not straightline speed. SBCs are actually far easier to get more BHP out of to a certain level.
SBC....No its not as efficient and its more of an art to set them up properly. But nothing else quite gets the heart pumping, for me, in the same way. And to be honest its not something that gets captured that well on camera. I've had many many people compliment it. So its down to the head and heart battle.... does the car need an LS3 or modern EFI engine..... hmm. Not to mention this is a car with over 500bhp capable of over 25 mpg; could an LS3 do much better?
Now im used to it, Im used to driving around the lumpy cam and feeding in the throttle and avoiding flooding the engine and for me its all part of the character and 'event' of the car. If I want ~500bhp on tap in a compliant easy mash the pedal and let the ecu sort it out I already have that in a daily. Hence I disagree. There are advantages to the SBC.... Bang for buck and the sheer nostalgic heart pumping feel. Same reason I bought the parts for indicator stalks and decided NOT to fit them, and why I prefer the right hand shift (wrong way for us UK folk). Its all about the driving event.
I look at the on board footage of the real can am classics that take skill to keep on the road, let alone extract performance from and think.... you know... Ive got one of those in the garage!
Now that's a total turn around for me I never used to be fan of the american muscle type engines, no replacement for displacement and all that crap, low volumetric efficiency etc.... but now.... I love that stupid angry brute of an engine. So much so, if I ever decide to put something modern in the Ult (and Im seriously impressed with the LT4s credentials!) I'd love to build something like a cobra to keep the engine in, which some might view matches the feel of the engine better......
The above was a revelation for me, i went full SBC hater to lover.... maybe Ive been lucky as I know (nabbott for one) went absolutely the other way!
If you are interested....My full ultima story : https://www.facebook.com/Ultima-Can-Am-Scotland-96...
Although Im due it some serious updates!
OK Im done
I disagree actually....
My argument might somewhat be unconventional, but it, of course depends on your requirements. And yes I have driven an LS3'd Ultima.
first of all i concede: The LS3 is the staple modern day diet for Ultimas IMHO (with SBCs being used for many many years before). There are many LS3 successful installs, proven reliability and better MPG than the SBCs. However........IMHO None of the alternatives I have considered, SOUND quite the same as an SBC. Quite simply the SBC is the angriest, loudest, most evocative sounding engine I've come across! It exudes attitude that almost takes over the car!
I thought the SBC I had was a lemon so I was genuinely looking at S8 and R8 V10s, of course, LS series, and while they do sound eipc, they do sound like a lot of modern V8s ie RS4s etc. For me it turns out my SBC wasnt a lemon and i simply couldn't justify the cost/performance difference. and BTW when I say performance I mean MPG and driveability not straightline speed. SBCs are actually far easier to get more BHP out of to a certain level.
SBC....No its not as efficient and its more of an art to set them up properly. But nothing else quite gets the heart pumping, for me, in the same way. And to be honest its not something that gets captured that well on camera. I've had many many people compliment it. So its down to the head and heart battle.... does the car need an LS3 or modern EFI engine..... hmm. Not to mention this is a car with over 500bhp capable of over 25 mpg; could an LS3 do much better?
Now im used to it, Im used to driving around the lumpy cam and feeding in the throttle and avoiding flooding the engine and for me its all part of the character and 'event' of the car. If I want ~500bhp on tap in a compliant easy mash the pedal and let the ecu sort it out I already have that in a daily. Hence I disagree. There are advantages to the SBC.... Bang for buck and the sheer nostalgic heart pumping feel. Same reason I bought the parts for indicator stalks and decided NOT to fit them, and why I prefer the right hand shift (wrong way for us UK folk). Its all about the driving event.
I look at the on board footage of the real can am classics that take skill to keep on the road, let alone extract performance from and think.... you know... Ive got one of those in the garage!
Now that's a total turn around for me I never used to be fan of the american muscle type engines, no replacement for displacement and all that crap, low volumetric efficiency etc.... but now.... I love that stupid angry brute of an engine. So much so, if I ever decide to put something modern in the Ult (and Im seriously impressed with the LT4s credentials!) I'd love to build something like a cobra to keep the engine in, which some might view matches the feel of the engine better......
The above was a revelation for me, i went full SBC hater to lover.... maybe Ive been lucky as I know (nabbott for one) went absolutely the other way!
If you are interested....My full ultima story : https://www.facebook.com/Ultima-Can-Am-Scotland-96...
Although Im due it some serious updates!
OK Im done
ok but what are the weak points / defects of the two engines?
for example, they told me that LS has problems with connecting rod bearings, oil consumption and hydraulic lifters that do not close properly over time, draft oil, ecc
SBC told me that does not run at high rpm because it breaks, you have to heat it well otherwise crack basement or the pistons, consumption oil ecc
how about you?
for example, they told me that LS has problems with connecting rod bearings, oil consumption and hydraulic lifters that do not close properly over time, draft oil, ecc
SBC told me that does not run at high rpm because it breaks, you have to heat it well otherwise crack basement or the pistons, consumption oil ecc
how about you?
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