Buying an Ultima

Buying an Ultima

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Discussion

renmure

4,212 posts

223 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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The first blue one you mention would be the pick of the bunch at the moment for me. I think the other one at the Dealer has been in the classifieds for almost 2 years.

Irrespective of the engine, you also seem to get a lot of car for your money with the red GTR. Given that it was factory built and has only done 7k miles in 12 years it must be a safe bet for fairly depreciation free motoring for a couple of years.

F.C.

3,896 posts

207 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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Storer said:
Aircon and power steering are both a bas*ard to fit to a complete car, as is anything under the dash.
Agree with air con retro fit, but it only took me half a day to fit power steering to mine, I only use it for low speed manoeuvring otherwise it is switched off,
not been on track long enough to feel the need to switch it on yet.

Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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F.C. said:
Agree with air con retro fit, but it only took me half a day to fit power steering to mine, I only use it for low speed manoeuvring otherwise it is switched off,
not been on track long enough to feel the need to switch it on yet.
You must have a miniscule physique just to get under there!!


Paul

Ultimike

182 posts

106 months

Thursday 29th December 2016
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e8_pack said:
Matt's blue one is obviously a candidate. He may well have a buyer before I can view it though

Yellow can-am, again, unlikely to be around in Feb

The red SBC which is quite recent, though red is not my choice colour.

The blue 45k one, I think is dealer priced which doesn't interest me seeing as I don't need finance or enough mileage for warranty.

What are the thoughts on charged one in the higher end, i'd expect that price for a charged LS engine. No AC, SBC, cheap interior switches. Was over heating on a you tube video.

Sure there will be more available in the next few months though, quietist time for selling cars now.
It's true that SBC'S need a little more maintenance regular oil changes ever 1500 miles and valve clearances checked and adjusted every 3000 miles but other than that I have found mine to run well especially after replacing the holley carb with a quick fuel one which is much better.

Of the cars available in the classified I would not touch the black or the red car advertised at £59k and £69k respectively. PM for further information.

Other than that some very good advice above espescially from Storer and dead coombe.

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Friday 30th December 2016
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I'll disagree with Renmure re AC if you do trackdays. I have good heat management and after 20 mins on a nice day it is still v warm in there with the AC going full blast.

confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Friday 30th December 2016
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I dont think the guys are trying to put anyone off, I just think no one here wants anyone to have unrealistic expectations.... They are extreme cars. However They always grab the attention, they are simply 'Theatre for the road' and they are sharper than any other road car on the track. On the track of course radicals and race cars will have an advantage, but seriously.... Ultimas are basically old school race cars.

So I went for a 2nd hand SBC car and I honestly dont regret it. I know the LS is more refined, but I guess Im one of those people that enjoys the pain! For me and I include LS engines, they dont have the same heart feel and sound as the SBCs. You have to pay for that with lumpy idles, poor off cam performance and occasional starting issues. I was ready when I bought the car to do an LS swap or a V10 swap. but actually.... the SBC has won me over. Ive driven an LS engine ultima too.


Some more thoughts on a can am and why I went for one:

- The flexibility, so many vehicles in one. Roofed, Open top, aero screen and hardtop (I have the new factory solution and I think its awesome). You pick.... smile Only one option with the GTR.... Also kruncher on here had a sail maker make a soft top too for not too much.

- Wet weather driving point. OK in a rain storm you'd want a hard top, but I find it unlikely I would take GTR out in damp conditions etc anyway.... so may as well have a can am for the other advantages, plus you just get wet as soon as you open the door on a gtr (the door stores up water for you, just to rain on you when the door is opened whether its stopped raining or not!)

- Open top- actually I didn't really get that until I had a shot of my mates buggy .... I really liked that.... oh god I'm a hairdresser! and any open top car you have to put up with the hairdresser stick....

- The Aeroscreen..... If you want the proper wind in the hair experience. Im actually considering going for a 311 style 'noscreen' for the full on 'Can Am racer' experience.

- The looks - I think the Can am looks better. The GTR isnt bad but has a goldfish bowl effect from some angles because of the higher roof line, some folk get around this with a colour coded sun strip.

- Centre rear view mirror.... win. Even with the hard top solution.

I do accept its not quite as 'safe' as a GTR (no front roll hoop as std) but I'll fix that. smile At the end of the day both cars share many components and are equally capable, although you'd have a hard time whacking a stacker supercharger in a can up without a bit cutout!

For more on my buying experience: here is a shameless plug for the blog/rebuild: https://www.facebook.com/notes/ultima-can-am-scotl...

My last thought, is get along to a local meet or get hold of an owner for a chat and a look around.


Edited by confusionhunter on Friday 30th December 12:24

renmure

4,212 posts

223 months

Friday 30th December 2016
quotequote all
confusionhunter said:
For more on my buying experience: here is a shameless plug for the blog/rebuild: https://www.facebook.com/notes/ultima-can-am-scotl...
That was a good read. Not seen that before. Any updates?

confusionhunter

448 posts

221 months

Friday 30th December 2016
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just click on the main page and scroll down and work your way up! smile
https://www.facebook.com/Ultima-Can-Am-Scotland-96...

I usually update it about year behind the actual events... oops.

JRM Rossi

702 posts

188 months

Wednesday 4th January 2017
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I'm just waiting on a claim pay out to top up my ultima funds, Hopefully it won't be long now

BobE

605 posts

180 months

Friday 13th January 2017
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I'll give my perspective here. In terms of which make or model of car, for me it comes down to several factors - what you will actually use the car for, the ease or not of maintaining it and the subsequent costs, and a big emotional factor. We can all phantasise about different cars but in the end you have to make a decision and really the questions asked on a forum such as this ought to be about Ultima model specifics if you want to get a detailed balanced response. I'm just going through the process of buying a GTR having tried over the years to find the right car at the right price. For me it had to be coupe rather than a Can Am as I'm not keen on keeping the elements and thieves out by a mobile umbrella- purely a personal choice. Yes there is a better solution now from the factory but you've got to have that on if there is any chance of leaving the car unattended or the weather is going to change. Then in my experience there is a huge difference in the standard of cars out there - photographs can be very deceptive and don't equate advertised price with quality. You also need to have funds easily available or you are going to miss the best cars. The 'red' one owner car referred to earlier was advertised on Christmas Eve. By the time I contacted the owner on that day it had gone - it sold I think in the first hour. Then there is the aspect of a dealer versus private sales. This comment really only applies in the UK but the changes to the 'sale of goods act' in late 2015 makes a big differences - it's not just about dealer facilities but the legal implications on them regarding the quality of what they are selling. I've just put down a deposit on the blue car at Nick Cartwright's. Firstly for me it's the right spec - SBC so no major computers and sensors, it has a full roll cage, it has aircon, a rear wing and is very well built. It also has well over 500 bhp. The other thing about the car is that it was a personal car of the company owner and maintained by the classic Ferrari firm. It was also bought for £8K less than the asking price - if you don't ask....

Storer

5,024 posts

214 months

Friday 13th January 2017
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When buying an Ultima be quite careful with engine power figures.
If you look through this forum's history you will see many posts about the power of the Am Speed engines quoted versus UK tested output.

If buying an Ultima ask for a UK rolling road or dyno power sheet.

Many sellers have a tendency to 'round-up' their power output.

Only a word of warning!


Paul

BobE

605 posts

180 months

Friday 13th January 2017
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Storer said:
When buying an Ultima be quite careful with engine power figures.
If you look through this forum's history you will see many posts about the power of the Am Speed engines quoted versus UK tested output.

If buying an Ultima ask for a UK rolling road or dyno power sheet.

Many sellers have a tendency to 'round-up' their power output.

Only a word of warning!


Paul
I agree there will always be an element of doubt. From my understanding Am Speed figures are SAE corrected to give a consistent regime, so the results off their water dyno are corrected for air temperature and pressure etc. I'm guessing that they are also taken without an alternator charging or an aircon compressor being driven. I could also believe the induction side is 'optimised' regarding air filters etc, and a free flow exhaust is used. Obviously they don't take into account transmission losses so a rolling road figure will always be a lot less and in the 'installed' power output will also be less with an individual induction and exhaust system. The car in question has Am Speed power and torque curves showing 560 bhp but in the car it will obviously be significantly less. Either way I think it will be enough....

deadscoob

2,263 posts

259 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
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I think it's fair to say the factory exhaust system reduces the quoted AS power quite significantly, but as Rob says, if it's quoted at 560 by AS, it's still enough.

Any AS knockers have to accept all the world records were set with AS engines and factory exhausts, so it's clearly enough smile.

Re Pauls comment, there are also plenty of UK rolling roads that are a little "enthusiastic" with the figures. I've been on the same dyno as Paul, and quite frankly, that company has zero credibility IMO, no offence Paul. I've also been on one run by a team that runs GT3/LMP cars and it was 75hp less than the one mentioned above. I know which I'd rather believe.

845ste

577 posts

126 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
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someone knows here, as AS measure HP?
with which Exhaust for example?
airbox?
klima?

JoulesCanAm

328 posts

185 months

Saturday 14th January 2017
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Typically engine dyno runs are conducted with open flow headers, no true exhaust. Conducted in a clean room they may not even use an air filter. Then come all the fudge factors for barometric pressure, temperature etc. and estimates for installed power train loss. It's just an indicative number at best, more for bench racing at the bar. The only way to know what a vehicle is putting out to the wheels is run it when completed on a chassis dyno.

Julian

renmure

4,212 posts

223 months

Sunday 12th February 2017
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BobE said:
I've just put down a deposit on the blue car at Nick Cartwright's. Firstly for me it's the right spec - SBC so no major computers and sensors, it has a full roll cage, it has aircon, a rear wing and is very well built. It also has well over 500 bhp. The other thing about the car is that it was a personal car of the company owner and maintained by the classic Ferrari firm. It was also bought for £8K less than the asking price - if you don't ask....
Just noticed this is re-listed in the classifieds at Nick Cartwright.
Did you change your mind or just waiting to collect it?

BobE

605 posts

180 months

Sunday 12th February 2017
quotequote all
renmure said:
BobE said:
I've just put down a deposit on the blue car at Nick Cartwright's. Firstly for me it's the right spec - SBC so no major computers and sensors, it has a full roll cage, it has aircon, a rear wing and is very well built. It also has well over 500 bhp. The other thing about the car is that it was a personal car of the company owner and maintained by the classic Ferrari firm. It was also bought for £8K less than the asking price - if you don't ask....
Just noticed this is re-listed in the classifieds at Nick Cartwright.
Did you change your mind or just waiting to collect it?
I'm waiting for delivery having put down a deposit. They have been doing a few jobs on the car fitting the work in around their Ferrari business and I'm in no hurry with the weather as it is - hopefully the car will be delivered next week.

renmure

4,212 posts

223 months

Sunday 12th February 2017
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Great stuff. Hope you enjoy it and am looking forward to seeing some pics when you get it.

BobE

605 posts

180 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
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renmure said:
Great stuff. Hope you enjoy it and am looking forward to seeing some pics when you get it.
Delivery set for tomorrow morning - questions to follow!

UltimaCH

3,155 posts

188 months

Wednesday 15th February 2017
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BobE said:
Delivery set for tomorrow morning - questions to follow!
And plenty pf pics please!