Ultima for sale thoughts
Discussion
Hi everyone I am after some advice does anyone have any history on the current few Ultimas up for sale currently or any members thinking of selling their beloved cars? I am looking for a GTR (budget wise) being used to somewhat compromising (I luckily have a CAV GT40) I have always fancied a Chevy V8 and that beautiful shape and having sat in a few and looked at the possible storage they do seem to be the next level up to a GT40 and would allow far more away days!
I would welcome any advice or thoughts.
Many thanks K
I would welcome any advice or thoughts.
Many thanks K
I don’t have any specific information on any of those cars, but there seem to be 2 schools of thought with second-hand Ultimas....there are people who say that a car with a SBC engine is fine, and “you can always swap the engine if you want to”... and there are those that say that you should only buy a car with the later LS engines. I am in the latter camp. I built a GTR in 2007-2009, not very long after the LS7 engines were available and it was a great car. Best of luck, whatever you decide to do.
While a well-sorted SBC installation will run fine, it's always going to require some tinkering. If you're not a car's original builder and, indeed, have chosen a resale over a kit build for reasons of your own, you're not going to want to swap the engine later. For anyone but an experienced mechanic, that's a non-trivial task. Buy the car configured as you desire. If that's an LS7 setup (as was the GTR I built), then wait for a suitable example to be listed for sale or perhaps post a "Wanted" ad and see what percolates up...
Thanks for some useful advice, as i run conventional non fuel injected engines on all of my other cars (some with quad or triple carbs they are a challenge) i just wondered why there seemed some reservation on the Ultima forum around the older non fuel injected engines running what is one carb I of course understand fuel injected later LS 3 etc engines will provide smoother running etc. but i could not get my head around why the same older style Chevy lump is pretty standard on most Cobras and they seem to always sing its praises. Still welcome any other thoughts guys.
Looking at the olders cars though i would assume they will by the very nature not be holding such high values as clearly if most people had a choice the LS engine would be preferred but any car with it should also be at a higher price point i guess.
Looking at the olders cars though i would assume they will by the very nature not be holding such high values as clearly if most people had a choice the LS engine would be preferred but any car with it should also be at a higher price point i guess.
I would focus foremost on overall build quality, but then personally I also wouldn't hesitate to pull an engine and swap it. I have one of the aforementioned Chevy SBC based early CanAm's (2004) and it's as reliable as any LS car in my mind. It was built right with all the right bits; a Dart aluminum block stroked to 427 CI, dry sump, Kinsler EFI etc. but all done before the LS really came on the scene. I wouldn't go to the trouble of changing it now, but if I were building an RS at this point it would be so easy to use an LS7 and an abundance here in the US.
As for the Ultima to GT40 comparison, I own both and they are very distinctly different IMO; the GT40 just evokes pure nostalgic beauty, with a beast at heart but it's still 60's technology. The Ultima is a modern fit for purpose design that is superbly planted and so much more capable.
Julian
As for the Ultima to GT40 comparison, I own both and they are very distinctly different IMO; the GT40 just evokes pure nostalgic beauty, with a beast at heart but it's still 60's technology. The Ultima is a modern fit for purpose design that is superbly planted and so much more capable.
Julian
Ive run a carb for years and finally converting to EFI and that s really only for the advantages of Cold starts and drivability as Its a road car for me. It had great power and decent MPG and really taught me how to tune a carb too. The reason carbs have a bad rep in ultimas IMHO is Bore wash. There are a couple of examples of engines needing rebuilds in short order due to this.
Its not something even experience drivers think about but with such a fast accelerating car many people wil put the fott down be fuerther down the road than they are used to and just do a massive lift rather than a brief coast and lift, meaning the carb is slow to react and you are constantly cleaning your bore of oil. You dont have that with EFI.
My journey with my own car is on dreaded FB. I'll eventually move my content off but I had the LS Vs SBC debate in my own head and havent regretted my SBC journey. Plus controversially..... I think SBCs sounds better
https://www.facebook.com/Ultima-Can-Am-Scotland-96...
Its not something even experience drivers think about but with such a fast accelerating car many people wil put the fott down be fuerther down the road than they are used to and just do a massive lift rather than a brief coast and lift, meaning the carb is slow to react and you are constantly cleaning your bore of oil. You dont have that with EFI.
My journey with my own car is on dreaded FB. I'll eventually move my content off but I had the LS Vs SBC debate in my own head and havent regretted my SBC journey. Plus controversially..... I think SBCs sounds better
https://www.facebook.com/Ultima-Can-Am-Scotland-96...
Thanks ever so much for your advice, EFi does sound like a sensible upgrade, yours is the car with the Fantastic roof a work of art! I also run a GT40 with quad IDA's so know exactly what you mean re bore wash hence i never just turn my car off with the fuel pumps running i always turn them off and run the car for say a minute so i don't have loads of fuel just sitting there seeping into any bores like wise from cold i always try and turn the car over without any fuel just to get that oil around.
I ran a Holley carbed SBC since 1997 and was always reasonably happy. It was too large (850 cfm vac-sec) so could be a bit funny on the throttle and a pain to idle cleanly until warm. Ran it for years but am also always on the look for a project.. So I bought a load of Holley HP EFI in the country together with their multipoint manifold, cam phase sensor and went full sequential and distributerless.
Starting, idling and general drivability was an instant, huge improvement. Can't feel any huge top-end improvement and I don't really care about consumption.
All in all, I would say that FI would be a real benefit to an Ultima with an SBC. If I had sorted out (replaced) the original carb and set it up properly (with what I know now about fueling) then it would have been perfectly acceptable. however, IMHO, FI really does improve the experience.
Hand on heart, not sure about the DIS, haven't messed much with the timing control. Holley offer many lower-spec FI only systems that would probably be cheaper and just as beneficial and easier to install. I always had my eye on an LS7 upgrade (which I am starting now..) and I chose the HP EFi to be ready for that.
Starting, idling and general drivability was an instant, huge improvement. Can't feel any huge top-end improvement and I don't really care about consumption.
All in all, I would say that FI would be a real benefit to an Ultima with an SBC. If I had sorted out (replaced) the original carb and set it up properly (with what I know now about fueling) then it would have been perfectly acceptable. however, IMHO, FI really does improve the experience.
Hand on heart, not sure about the DIS, haven't messed much with the timing control. Holley offer many lower-spec FI only systems that would probably be cheaper and just as beneficial and easier to install. I always had my eye on an LS7 upgrade (which I am starting now..) and I chose the HP EFi to be ready for that.
Thanks ever so much some great advice and I really appreciate everyone's feedback. I have been convinced budget wise i could start with a non fuel injected car and I am sure set up right it will probably be one hell of a more smoother experience than driving my GT40 with quad IDA's then. I am on the look out! Thanks again guys K
I am the least mechanically minded numptie you could come across so me buying an Ultima 7 years ago (wow, where did that time go) was a scary leap in the dark hoping that nothing would go wrong or if it did that it would be so simple that I could at least have a clue who to even speak to about things.
Mine is an LS engined car and, touch wood, has been 100% perfect for my purposes. Over the years I've had a couple of simple mechanical issues that even I have been able to resolve (with hand-holding from folk on here and in person in the shape of some of my fellow Scottish Ultima owners) but the reliability of the LS engine has been a huge relief to me. In saying that, I've been behind Mark's SBC car and it sounds like thunder and even having a straight through exhaust in mine doesn't quite reach that rumble.
Mine is an LS engined car and, touch wood, has been 100% perfect for my purposes. Over the years I've had a couple of simple mechanical issues that even I have been able to resolve (with hand-holding from folk on here and in person in the shape of some of my fellow Scottish Ultima owners) but the reliability of the LS engine has been a huge relief to me. In saying that, I've been behind Mark's SBC car and it sounds like thunder and even having a straight through exhaust in mine doesn't quite reach that rumble.
renmure said:
In saying that, I've been behind Mark's SBC car and it sounds like thunder and even having a straight through exhaust in mine doesn't quite reach that rumble.
As mine is a 97 registered car, I am going to be installing an LS7 without cats. I am also debating an 8 > 1 exhaust (if I can fit it I). So I am hoping it will be as dramatic as the SBC its replacing... 
JoulesCanAm said:
Self learning throttle body (carb style) EFI systems are readily available now and really do take any of the trepidation out of EFI and previous need for mapping/programming via access to a dyno, it's an easy upgrade.
Can't speak highly enough of the Holley systems. I started mine on a base map, let it learn using the wideband, and then fettled the map with a bit of driving and seat of the pants. I am sure that a hub dyno and a bit of pro help would improve it a bit more but TBH I feel I have got 95% of the fuelling sorted with the onboard self-learning, reading the docs and a bit of advice on the holley forums. ultiman said:
I also run a SBC with Holly carb. What is the best value for money efi system as a bolt on replacement?
Hi Nick, I have fitted a FiTech Go Street 400 efi to my SBC. It is probably the cheapest system out there but has transformed the performance of the car. It is vitally important to follow the installation instructions to the letter, any deviation, such as poor earths and low voltage to the ecu can cause many problems. Holley and FiTech appear to be the most popular systems out there, but the Holley costs more than the FiTech.My GTR runs a heavily modified SBC (Knight Racing dry sump spec) with a NASCAR Holley Carb - which suited my intended use in competition Sprints and track days, along with some limited road use!
Whilst I am an ex (old school) mechanic and do all of my own maintenance, I do also keep it road legal. Though I don't use it it very much on the road, other than to attend the odd car meet as it's a real work out driving it on the road. The pay off is that it comes into it's own on the track, with 'raw' performance, being very capable (in the right hands of course) and a great deal of fun. I also prefer an old school SBC as I find them much easier to work on without any complicated electronics to deal with!
To be honest, I have and I am still considering a Holley EFI conversion, but only to improve drivability and fuel consumption on the road?
Whilst there may appear to be a bit of a negative view toward SBC's on this forum and FB, I would suggest there are plenty of SBC versions out there with plenty of satisfied owners, but they don't come up for sale very often!
So in the end, it's all down to your own personal preferences and of course, your budget. Of course, an SBC is likely to be cheaper than an LS FI based version, but don't expect too much of a bargain as in good complete and running condition, they do still hold their value very well!
Whilst I am an ex (old school) mechanic and do all of my own maintenance, I do also keep it road legal. Though I don't use it it very much on the road, other than to attend the odd car meet as it's a real work out driving it on the road. The pay off is that it comes into it's own on the track, with 'raw' performance, being very capable (in the right hands of course) and a great deal of fun. I also prefer an old school SBC as I find them much easier to work on without any complicated electronics to deal with!
To be honest, I have and I am still considering a Holley EFI conversion, but only to improve drivability and fuel consumption on the road?
Whilst there may appear to be a bit of a negative view toward SBC's on this forum and FB, I would suggest there are plenty of SBC versions out there with plenty of satisfied owners, but they don't come up for sale very often!
So in the end, it's all down to your own personal preferences and of course, your budget. Of course, an SBC is likely to be cheaper than an LS FI based version, but don't expect too much of a bargain as in good complete and running condition, they do still hold their value very well!
Having just done my efi conversion and ironing out the bugs etc I'd do your thinking first. EFi self tuning usually works well when you have a decent amount of vacuum, running a wild cam with a lumpy idle reduce vacuum and the ability of the ECU to determine correct fuelling. I'm running ITBs which makes the situation even worse with an unreliable vacuum.
More expensive systems (I bought a FAST XFi 2.0) can tune around some of the quirks and that's the process I'm going through now. So the big word of warning, is do not buy a basic self learning system and expect it to cope with a wild cammed low vacuum application. On the tuning forums I've seen many examples for folk trying and then have to upgrade the ecu for a fully programmable one.
Having said that if you have a standard or mild application the vacuum assisted self mapping things do seem to work very well based on feedback Ive seen!
More expensive systems (I bought a FAST XFi 2.0) can tune around some of the quirks and that's the process I'm going through now. So the big word of warning, is do not buy a basic self learning system and expect it to cope with a wild cammed low vacuum application. On the tuning forums I've seen many examples for folk trying and then have to upgrade the ecu for a fully programmable one.
Having said that if you have a standard or mild application the vacuum assisted self mapping things do seem to work very well based on feedback Ive seen!
confusionhunter said:
Having just done my efi conversion and ironing out the bugs etc I'd do your thinking first. EFi self tuning usually works well when you have a decent amount of vacuum, running a wild cam with a lumpy idle reduce vacuum and the ability of the ECU to determine correct fuelling. I'm running ITBs which makes the situation even worse with an unreliable vacuum.
More expensive systems (I bought a FAST XFi 2.0) can tune around some of the quirks and that's the process I'm going through now. So the big word of warning, is do not buy a basic self learning system and expect it to cope with a wild cammed low vacuum application. On the tuning forums I've seen many examples for folk trying and then have to upgrade the ecu for a fully programmable one.
Having said that if you have a standard or mild application the vacuum assisted self mapping things do seem to work very well based on feedback Ive seen!
Yes, this is what concerns me about going with an EFI conversion on my modified SBC? Thanks for advice.More expensive systems (I bought a FAST XFi 2.0) can tune around some of the quirks and that's the process I'm going through now. So the big word of warning, is do not buy a basic self learning system and expect it to cope with a wild cammed low vacuum application. On the tuning forums I've seen many examples for folk trying and then have to upgrade the ecu for a fully programmable one.
Having said that if you have a standard or mild application the vacuum assisted self mapping things do seem to work very well based on feedback Ive seen!
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