To the RS owner in Florida who is out losing races on YT...
Discussion
deadscoob said:
How would an EV Ultima not be soulless? What would an EV Ultima do that gives it soul? Whirs?
My comments re basic etc we’re based on Ultimas as they are now - they’re basic cars with not great road manners and loads of character which is pretty much down to the engine. Lose that and what do you have?
Noise is a huge part of car lovers dislike of EVs and it’s a huge part of the appeal of an a Ultima. The analogue experience.
I'm just waiting on my second Ultima (in twenty years). I am a petrol head but have owned 4 EV's previously and now have a Model 3 LR (performance upgrade) for a daily. I have had many many discussions with petrol heads over the new tech "washing machines", the comments about whir etc are all valid until you live with a lively EV... you can talk about them and read stuff about them but until you actually live with them you really have no idea what they are like and I'm not talking about Leaf's and Zoe's here.My comments re basic etc we’re based on Ultimas as they are now - they’re basic cars with not great road manners and loads of character which is pretty much down to the engine. Lose that and what do you have?
Noise is a huge part of car lovers dislike of EVs and it’s a huge part of the appeal of an a Ultima. The analogue experience.
It's not about the noise, it's about the neck-snapping instant torque at any angle or speed. Exit speeds from bends are frankly ridiculous and your buzz factor is not about all that mechanical noise (which I find distracting on full tilt) it is about how early you dare to put the power down. Don't forget an induction motor makes all of its rated torque (plus whatever else the controller has been programmed to deliver) in one half of one revolution.. let that sink in. When you drive an EV it is a completely different experience and it is very alien when compared to ICE. It does take a LOT of adjustment (well it did for me) but now that Tesla have started market disruption (and technology disruption for that matter), we can expect to see a lot of hyper performance EV's hitting the market place. Sure Rimac et ell will be bombing the ultra high end of the market with their hyperspeed offerings.. but everything else is just an electric shopping car. Tesla Model 3 performance is around 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? This is a shopping car not a performance car.
I've had many a long conversation with GTR Clive in Canada about producing an EV car (for me!) and as a business model going forwards. The issue is that the original GTR chassis is not suitable to house the battery packs. We already know that the Ultima is front end light, and having a chassis redesign to accept a 100KW pack and two 600hp axles (FWD) is what I would want. It would allow for a perfect 50/50 weight distribution and having the lower centre of gravity means you need less aero at speeds and less drag.
I'm guessing that most of the negative EV comments come from our American friends that enjoy cheap gas and where there is little point in small EV's due to sheer mileage requirements when travelling from state to state? I can see why EV's are pointless in that scenario but times are changing globally and to get a foot in the door now is a good thing. If Ultima ever offered an EV ready chassis I'd buy one tomorrow. I'm not a racing driver but I enjoy fast road cars (and a track day). The ability to press on without drawing any attention is a very welcome consideration. Four wheel drive, with 300hp on each corner, and instant acceleration ticks my boxes.
With Tesla already stating that they will open up their worldwide charging network, it makes perfect sense to look at an all electric Ultima. V3 chargers would fill that huge battery in around 20 minutes - although Poor Ted Marlow nearly had a stroke when I told him I was considering putting a V10 Toureg diesel in my GTR 20 years ago.. this would probable finish him off
Tesla Plaid already on order.
Tesla Cybertruck (3 motor) already on order.
I can see both sides of the conversation and if I could afford it I would have both.
LordFlathead said:
I'm guessing that most of the negative EV comments come from our American friends that enjoy cheap gas and where there is little point in small EV's due to sheer mileage requirements when travelling from state to state? I can see why EV's are pointless in that scenario but times are changing globally and to get a foot in the door now is a good thing. If Ultima ever offered an EV ready chassis I'd buy one tomorrow. I'm not a racing driver but I enjoy fast road cars (and a track day). The ability to press on without drawing any attention is a very welcome consideration. Four wheel drive, with 300hp on each corner, and instant acceleration ticks my boxes.
With Tesla already stating that they will open up their worldwide charging network, it makes perfect sense to look at an all electric Ultima. V3 chargers would fill that huge battery in around 20 minutes - although Poor Ted Marlow nearly had a stroke when I told him I was considering putting a V10 Toureg diesel in my GTR 20 years ago.. this would probable finish him off
Tesla Plaid already on order.
Tesla Cybertruck (3 motor) already on order.
I can see both sides of the conversation and if I could afford it I would have both.
Sounds like you have swallowed the Tesla pill With Tesla already stating that they will open up their worldwide charging network, it makes perfect sense to look at an all electric Ultima. V3 chargers would fill that huge battery in around 20 minutes - although Poor Ted Marlow nearly had a stroke when I told him I was considering putting a V10 Toureg diesel in my GTR 20 years ago.. this would probable finish him off
Tesla Plaid already on order.
Tesla Cybertruck (3 motor) already on order.
I can see both sides of the conversation and if I could afford it I would have both.
LordFlathead said:
I'm just waiting on my second Ultima (in twenty years). I am a petrol head but have owned 4 EV's previously and now have a Model 3 LR (performance upgrade) for a daily. I have had many many discussions with petrol heads over the new tech "washing machines", the comments about whir etc are all valid until you live with a lively EV... you can talk about them and read stuff about them but until you actually live with them you really have no idea what they are like and I'm not talking about Leaf's and Zoe's here.
It's not about the noise, it's about the neck-snapping instant torque at any angle or speed. Exit speeds from bends are frankly ridiculous and your buzz factor is not about all that mechanical noise (which I find distracting on full tilt) it is about how early you dare to put the power down. Don't forget an induction motor makes all of its rated torque (plus whatever else the controller has been programmed to deliver) in one half of one revolution.. let that sink in. When you drive an EV it is a completely different experience and it is very alien when compared to ICE. It does take a LOT of adjustment (well it did for me) but now that Tesla have started market disruption (and technology disruption for that matter), we can expect to see a lot of hyper performance EV's hitting the market place. Sure Rimac et ell will be bombing the ultra high end of the market with their hyperspeed offerings.. but everything else is just an electric shopping car. Tesla Model 3 performance is around 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? This is a shopping car not a performance car.
I've had many a long conversation with GTR Clive in Canada about producing an EV car (for me!) and as a business model going forwards. The issue is that the original GTR chassis is not suitable to house the battery packs. We already know that the Ultima is front end light, and having a chassis redesign to accept a 100KW pack and two 600hp axles (FWD) is what I would want. It would allow for a perfect 50/50 weight distribution and having the lower centre of gravity means you need less aero at speeds and less drag.
I'm guessing that most of the negative EV comments come from our American friends that enjoy cheap gas and where there is little point in small EV's due to sheer mileage requirements when travelling from state to state? I can see why EV's are pointless in that scenario but times are changing globally and to get a foot in the door now is a good thing. If Ultima ever offered an EV ready chassis I'd buy one tomorrow. I'm not a racing driver but I enjoy fast road cars (and a track day). The ability to press on without drawing any attention is a very welcome consideration. Four wheel drive, with 300hp on each corner, and instant acceleration ticks my boxes.
With Tesla already stating that they will open up their worldwide charging network, it makes perfect sense to look at an all electric Ultima. V3 chargers would fill that huge battery in around 20 minutes - although Poor Ted Marlow nearly had a stroke when I told him I was considering putting a V10 Toureg diesel in my GTR 20 years ago.. this would probable finish him off
Tesla Plaid already on order.
Tesla Cybertruck (3 motor) already on order.
I can see both sides of the conversation and if I could afford it I would have both.
Well said, informed point of view.It's not about the noise, it's about the neck-snapping instant torque at any angle or speed. Exit speeds from bends are frankly ridiculous and your buzz factor is not about all that mechanical noise (which I find distracting on full tilt) it is about how early you dare to put the power down. Don't forget an induction motor makes all of its rated torque (plus whatever else the controller has been programmed to deliver) in one half of one revolution.. let that sink in. When you drive an EV it is a completely different experience and it is very alien when compared to ICE. It does take a LOT of adjustment (well it did for me) but now that Tesla have started market disruption (and technology disruption for that matter), we can expect to see a lot of hyper performance EV's hitting the market place. Sure Rimac et ell will be bombing the ultra high end of the market with their hyperspeed offerings.. but everything else is just an electric shopping car. Tesla Model 3 performance is around 0-60 in 3.2 seconds? This is a shopping car not a performance car.
I've had many a long conversation with GTR Clive in Canada about producing an EV car (for me!) and as a business model going forwards. The issue is that the original GTR chassis is not suitable to house the battery packs. We already know that the Ultima is front end light, and having a chassis redesign to accept a 100KW pack and two 600hp axles (FWD) is what I would want. It would allow for a perfect 50/50 weight distribution and having the lower centre of gravity means you need less aero at speeds and less drag.
I'm guessing that most of the negative EV comments come from our American friends that enjoy cheap gas and where there is little point in small EV's due to sheer mileage requirements when travelling from state to state? I can see why EV's are pointless in that scenario but times are changing globally and to get a foot in the door now is a good thing. If Ultima ever offered an EV ready chassis I'd buy one tomorrow. I'm not a racing driver but I enjoy fast road cars (and a track day). The ability to press on without drawing any attention is a very welcome consideration. Four wheel drive, with 300hp on each corner, and instant acceleration ticks my boxes.
With Tesla already stating that they will open up their worldwide charging network, it makes perfect sense to look at an all electric Ultima. V3 chargers would fill that huge battery in around 20 minutes - although Poor Ted Marlow nearly had a stroke when I told him I was considering putting a V10 Toureg diesel in my GTR 20 years ago.. this would probable finish him off
Tesla Plaid already on order.
Tesla Cybertruck (3 motor) already on order.
I can see both sides of the conversation and if I could afford it I would have both.
I’d be building a quad electric motor too, if I wasn’t so invested in my FI ICE
I “get” the impressive grunt, I understand ICE cars cannot realistically compete in an acceleration comparison, but i still don’t care.
Watch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
Watch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
deadscoob said:
I “get” the impressive grunt, I understand ICE cars cannot realistically compete in an acceleration comparison, but i still don’t care.
Watch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
I suppose the point would be, if the factory are no longer able to produce cars using ICE then I would prefer them still to be in business producing evWatch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
xrtim said:
Well said, informed point of view.
I’d be building a quad electric motor too, if I wasn’t so invested in my FI ICE
Thank you for your positive comments. I would love to see a build thread for this if you have one I’d be building a quad electric motor too, if I wasn’t so invested in my FI ICE
deadscoob said:
I “get” the impressive grunt, I understand ICE cars cannot realistically compete in an acceleration comparison, but i still don’t care.
Watch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
Perfectly balanced response and one most people share. There are other benefits such as: Watch a video of a 917, 787, dbr9, any older F1 cars, v12 lambos, countless 911 race cars and road cars, T70, gt40 blah blah. I don’t care if an
EV would blitz past all of these in an instant, without that mechanical sound I couldn’t give a monkeys.
An old db4/5/6 would get their pants pulled down by a cooking diesel car nowadays, let alone a quick one. A 250gto would be obliterated by a golf R (let alone any Tesla). A 917 would be beaten on track by a gt2 (hardly cooking but still…).
An EV will never have those sensory pleasures, and I don’t care how quick they are.
As said, I don’t get the point of an EV Ultima. It loses all sensory fun bar acceleration but will keep all the drawbacks and cost more than a plaid s or taycan which will do 95% of everything better.
1) Cheap to fill the "tank" around £12 for 250 miles of range at a Tesla supercharger. £4 at home overnight on Economy 7. Less if you have solar.
2) Zero maintenance. My 355 went in for a belt change with a water pump £3700! LSx is just fluids and filters I get that but it still adds up.
3) The ability to tune your own car from your laptop - make your own maps then try them out.
4) Zero road fund license.
5) The ability to sneak out in the middle of the night without waking the entire neighbourhood
6) You cannot compare a Taycan/Tincan to an Ultima - they are completely different animals but I get the sentiment.
xrtim said:
I suppose the point would be, if the factory are no longer able to produce cars using ICE then I would prefer them still to be in business producing ev
^^ This. Ultima is one of just a handful of British made sports cars left that make bespoke and interesting vehicles. Other than a 962 or Dauer kit there is little on offer in this market segment. They could continue to manufacture ICE chassis for track or competition use and develop an EV chassis to continue mass production going forwards. Just my thoughts here guys, I have no desire to turn this into an anti petrol-head topic and I appreciate that Ted was very specific about the concept of what the Ultima market is designed for. He made this very clear with PDK 'boxes. The Ultima will, always be a V8 factory car and the formula works for them as a business model so little reason for them to change it.
As you were
Hi gentlemen ...... I've been following this thread with interest as I started a thread early in 2021 with regard to the future of the 'kit car' industry in the UK. The clock is ticking towards 2030 when you will not be able to register a new vehicle with an IC engine. Given the typical build time, lets say 2 years for sake of discussion, that means that in 2028 it be too late to get it through IVA in time.
Currently, as I'm sure most of you will be aware, you can not submit an electric vehicle for IVA. To use the official jargon, 'It is outside scope'.
In the same way you can not have air-bags, etc, etc.
I have not read anywhere of plans to change this situation. Add into this situation the fact that all new vehicles in 2022 have to have systems that alert the driver to speed limits and from 2025 it will not be possible to turn them off. If we look at all the 'electronic stuff' in new cars, then the IVA test is completely 'out of sync' with modern vehicles.
It will take a huge overhaul of the IVA process and I wonder if officialdom is aware of this and has no intention of doing so, therefore, game over!
I would love to spend an evening with Richard at Ultima, John at AK and Andy at Tornado (possibly some others) to discuss their thoughts on this and where they think this situation is going to go. Maybe they are all planning to retire before 2030.
By the way I'm a long time owner of a GT40 and currently I am doing all I can to 'enjoy the moment'.
Currently, as I'm sure most of you will be aware, you can not submit an electric vehicle for IVA. To use the official jargon, 'It is outside scope'.
In the same way you can not have air-bags, etc, etc.
I have not read anywhere of plans to change this situation. Add into this situation the fact that all new vehicles in 2022 have to have systems that alert the driver to speed limits and from 2025 it will not be possible to turn them off. If we look at all the 'electronic stuff' in new cars, then the IVA test is completely 'out of sync' with modern vehicles.
It will take a huge overhaul of the IVA process and I wonder if officialdom is aware of this and has no intention of doing so, therefore, game over!
I would love to spend an evening with Richard at Ultima, John at AK and Andy at Tornado (possibly some others) to discuss their thoughts on this and where they think this situation is going to go. Maybe they are all planning to retire before 2030.
By the way I'm a long time owner of a GT40 and currently I am doing all I can to 'enjoy the moment'.
LordFlathead said:
xrtim said:
...
Perfectly balanced response and one most people share. There are other benefits such as:
1) Cheap to fill the "tank" around £12 for 250 miles of range at a Tesla supercharger. £4 at home overnight on Economy 7. Less if you have solar.
2) Zero maintenance. My 355 went in for a belt change with a water pump £3700! LSx is just fluids and filters I get that but it still adds up.
3) The ability to tune your own car from your laptop - make your own maps then try them out.
4) Zero road fund license.
5) The ability to sneak out in the middle of the night without waking the entire neighbourhood
6) You cannot compare a Taycan/Tincan to an Ultima - they are completely different animals but I get the sentiment.
..:
Just to continue the conversation..Perfectly balanced response and one most people share. There are other benefits such as:
1) Cheap to fill the "tank" around £12 for 250 miles of range at a Tesla supercharger. £4 at home overnight on Economy 7. Less if you have solar.
2) Zero maintenance. My 355 went in for a belt change with a water pump £3700! LSx is just fluids and filters I get that but it still adds up.
3) The ability to tune your own car from your laptop - make your own maps then try them out.
4) Zero road fund license.
5) The ability to sneak out in the middle of the night without waking the entire neighbourhood
6) You cannot compare a Taycan/Tincan to an Ultima - they are completely different animals but I get the sentiment.
..:
As far as 1, I am already noticing supercharger pricing creeping up (IIRC I have seen 24p Kwh, but I don't need to use them often, so I don't know what the latest is..). Some other 3rd party chargers are charging 35p Kwh. When my EDF electric car tariff finishes later this year, I don't think there's anything comparable to replace it with (thanks to Putin). So I am expecting my home charging cost to escalate quite significantly (I am looking to install a large amount of solar, but they won't happen for a while.)
So quite quickly, I think the cost benefits will dissipate ...
As far as 2, true Teslas don't have a service schedule as such, and mine has cost me nothing since 2019 (only 12k miles, thanks to the China virus..). Not sure how long this will last...
However, having been looking at the Kia and Hyundai EV's and asking the dealers question. One was about service. They are still looking at service intervals of around 20K (or less for some). The EV6 first service is a 'software service'
- it seems that franchised dealers are already locking into the traditional service model....As far as a 3, well, not Tesla for sure. As these cars increasingly become computers on wheels, I suspect that It will be impossible to tune your OEM electric car.
Installing a Tesla motor/gearbox in another vehicle and using a custom controller - possible, although I think there is a level of encoding and encryption required to talk to the motor.
For 4, yeah this year and probably next. but after that, you better believe the gov will be looking to recover the lost fuel duty as a result of the increasing electric vehicle update... I don't see than adding 'tax' to electricity, so its VED or road pricing.
Steve Dean said:
Hi gentlemen ...... I've been following this thread with interest as I started a thread early in 2021 with regard to the future of the 'kit car' industry in the UK. The clock is ticking towards 2030 when you will not be able to register a new vehicle with an IC engine. Given the typical build time, lets say 2 years for sake of discussion, that means that in 2028 it be too late to get it through IVA in time.
Currently, as I'm sure most of you will be aware, you can not submit an electric vehicle for IVA. To use the official jargon, 'It is outside scope'.
In the same way you can not have air-bags, etc, etc.
I have not read anywhere of plans to change this situation. Add into this situation the fact that all new vehicles in 2022 have to have systems that alert the driver to speed limits and from 2025 it will not be possible to turn them off. If we look at all the 'electronic stuff' in new cars, then the IVA test is completely 'out of sync' with modern vehicles.
It will take a huge overhaul of the IVA process and I wonder if officialdom is aware of this and has no intention of doing so, therefore, game over!
I would love to spend an evening with Richard at Ultima, John at AK and Andy at Tornado (possibly some others) to discuss their thoughts on this and where they think this situation is going to go. Maybe they are all planning to retire before 2030.
By the way I'm a long time owner of a GT40 and currently I am doing all I can to 'enjoy the moment'.
Yes. This. I really hope there is someone in the industry trying to bottom out what is happening and trying to negotiate some exemptions. Currently, as I'm sure most of you will be aware, you can not submit an electric vehicle for IVA. To use the official jargon, 'It is outside scope'.
In the same way you can not have air-bags, etc, etc.
I have not read anywhere of plans to change this situation. Add into this situation the fact that all new vehicles in 2022 have to have systems that alert the driver to speed limits and from 2025 it will not be possible to turn them off. If we look at all the 'electronic stuff' in new cars, then the IVA test is completely 'out of sync' with modern vehicles.
It will take a huge overhaul of the IVA process and I wonder if officialdom is aware of this and has no intention of doing so, therefore, game over!
I would love to spend an evening with Richard at Ultima, John at AK and Andy at Tornado (possibly some others) to discuss their thoughts on this and where they think this situation is going to go. Maybe they are all planning to retire before 2030.
By the way I'm a long time owner of a GT40 and currently I am doing all I can to 'enjoy the moment'.
But I am planning a last time buy and/or build of various bikes and cars, hopefully, to last me the rest of my useful life...
LordFlathead said:
xrtim said:
Well said, informed point of view.
I’d be building a quad electric motor too, if I wasn’t so invested in my FI ICE
Thank you for your positive comments. I would love to see a build thread for this if you have one I’d be building a quad electric motor too, if I wasn’t so invested in my FI ICE
Sadly no build thread, only post when I think I may have something of interest, nothing for a while, just trying to convert the GTR wiring to r/s spec and get it talking to the aim dash, and raptor, I’m getting to the point where I may rip it out and go for an aim pdm, not a fan of electric’s and there lies my problem, so much kit comes onto the market and I think got to have that and the build goes on and on. One day I’ll finish it (got to be before 2030)
The no service cost EV model is purely to attract new owners, the dealer franchise model won’t work without cars they can service, unless they simply turn into collection hubs with central service depots. Hard to see though.
I might come across as anti EV but I’m not. I think they very much have a place if each country can sort a sensible infrastructure model. But I don’t see them as a silver bullet like our govt for example makes out, I don’t see that it’s probable that by 2030 we’ll be in a position to be EV only for new sales and I don’t see the appeal of these power units in a car like an Ultima or gt40 or cobra rep.
Plus the logic that they’re almost free to use is flawed. Govts get a huge amount of duty from vehicle and fuel tax. Any gaps EV create will need to be filled.
I guess the positive side to this is they’ll create jobs when they recommission our goal power stations to
Meet demand. Perhaps it’s a sneaky plan by Boris to get the thatcher hating miners on his side
I might come across as anti EV but I’m not. I think they very much have a place if each country can sort a sensible infrastructure model. But I don’t see them as a silver bullet like our govt for example makes out, I don’t see that it’s probable that by 2030 we’ll be in a position to be EV only for new sales and I don’t see the appeal of these power units in a car like an Ultima or gt40 or cobra rep.
Plus the logic that they’re almost free to use is flawed. Govts get a huge amount of duty from vehicle and fuel tax. Any gaps EV create will need to be filled.
I guess the positive side to this is they’ll create jobs when they recommission our goal power stations to
Meet demand. Perhaps it’s a sneaky plan by Boris to get the thatcher hating miners on his side
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