Discussion
Ken,
I had long discussions with the Miezere techs, and that is where we found out about the thermostat issues. These pumps are amazing and if you see them on the site, they are beautifully built. They are not cheap, but in our solution, we found it had a dramatic impact on cooling.
One thing you would need to do if you put the pump remote like we do is fashion an inline T in the supply line behind the pump to allow a spot for the heater hose line.
Craig
cb@brammo.com www.brammo.com
>> Edited by brammo on Thursday 22 May 07:57
I had long discussions with the Miezere techs, and that is where we found out about the thermostat issues. These pumps are amazing and if you see them on the site, they are beautifully built. They are not cheap, but in our solution, we found it had a dramatic impact on cooling.
One thing you would need to do if you put the pump remote like we do is fashion an inline T in the supply line behind the pump to allow a spot for the heater hose line.
Craig
cb@brammo.com www.brammo.com
>> Edited by brammo on Thursday 22 May 07:57
GTRCLIVE said: The Davis Craig pump is what i fitted and it's cheapest at Real Steal, was only £90 2years ago. Ripspeed wanted £130 at the time.
I fitted it down by the radiator and had it on a switch as well, the controler they try and sell you does not work very well for our V8's so don't be tempted as it's a waste of money.
Have fun...
Real Steel don't sell them any more. They only do the CSI pumps which are about 250 but are direct replacements for the mech pump.
Not using a controller as I'm wiring it to come on with my fan override.
Like Ultimapaul, I suffered overheating at Le Mans last year and in convoy with Paul and we both hit 115 f at the same time and simultaneously decided enough was enough. We were advised to turn down the idle speed to about 800 which we both did and no longer suffered severe overheating that weekend. The engine water temp still remained higher than I was prepared to accept so I have since fitted a fan over the oil cooler which comes on when the main fans do along with an over ride switch to bring the fans in early in traffic. This dealt with all but the most extreme situations.
The oil cooler fan draws a fair amount of air through the side vent to the extent that it will hold a ten Euro note to the side of the grill. The other advantage is that it helps keep down the under bonnet air temp which builds up. I have had no further problems but also looked at the Davies Craig unit, ordering one from Demon Tweeks. The pump was far too small and the inlet and outlet pipes about 15mm in diameter. I sent it back. Reading the above, I assume there are better ones. Any recommendations? (I am going for the belt and braces approach).
By the way Stig, don’t remove that lagging from the flow and return pipes. When I built my car there was no recommendation to lag these so I didn’t. A retro fit requires long rubber arms and a lot of luck. Without this lagging your air con will fight a loosing battle with this unintentional cockpit heater system. OK in winter but no fun in hot climates as passengers rarely see the amusing side after a few hours. I have an air temp gauge in the car which has hit 70 C in the past, such is the greenhouse effect…..
The oil cooler fan draws a fair amount of air through the side vent to the extent that it will hold a ten Euro note to the side of the grill. The other advantage is that it helps keep down the under bonnet air temp which builds up. I have had no further problems but also looked at the Davies Craig unit, ordering one from Demon Tweeks. The pump was far too small and the inlet and outlet pipes about 15mm in diameter. I sent it back. Reading the above, I assume there are better ones. Any recommendations? (I am going for the belt and braces approach).
By the way Stig, don’t remove that lagging from the flow and return pipes. When I built my car there was no recommendation to lag these so I didn’t. A retro fit requires long rubber arms and a lot of luck. Without this lagging your air con will fight a loosing battle with this unintentional cockpit heater system. OK in winter but no fun in hot climates as passengers rarely see the amusing side after a few hours. I have an air temp gauge in the car which has hit 70 C in the past, such is the greenhouse effect…..
ultiman said: Like Ultimapaul, I suffered overheating at Le Mans last year and in convoy with Paul and we both hit 115 f at the same time and simultaneously decided enough was enough. We were advised to turn down the idle speed to about 800 which we both did and no longer suffered severe overheating that weekend. The engine water temp still remained higher than I was prepared to accept so I have since fitted a fan over the oil cooler which comes on when the main fans do along with an over ride switch to bring the fans in early in traffic. This dealt with all but the most extreme situations.
The oil cooler fan draws a fair amount of air through the side vent to the extent that it will hold a ten Euro note to the side of the grill. The other advantage is that it helps keep down the under bonnet air temp which builds up. I have had no further problems but also looked at the Davies Craig unit, ordering one from Demon Tweeks. The pump was far too small and the inlet and outlet pipes about 15mm in diameter. I sent it back. Reading the above, I assume there are better ones. Any recommendations? (I am going for the belt and braces approach).
By the way Stig, don’t remove that lagging from the flow and return pipes. When I built my car there was no recommendation to lag these so I didn’t. A retro fit requires long rubber arms and a lot of luck. Without this lagging your air con will fight a loosing battle with this unintentional cockpit heater system. OK in winter but no fun in hot climates as passengers rarely see the amusing side after a few hours. I have an air temp gauge in the car which has hit 70 C in the past, such is the greenhouse effect…..
Seems like there's a pattern forming here eh!
Removing the lagging is a last resort (as it's a pain and was put there for the reasons you describe). Hence the other 'solutions'.
I may never find out what effect unlagging them will have, so can't really quantify the cooling effect they have on the system. There's now another supercharged car out there (was almost finished at the factory open day) so would be interesting to hear their experiences first hand - but have no contact info for the chap who built it despite meeting him there.
As I mentioned, I've also gone for 'belt-and-braces' (love that expression) and am fitting an 8" ProFan to the oil cooler to pull cool air into the engine bay.
The EWP has been updated for 2003 to provide 18% more flow (allegedly). Regarding the inlet/outlet sizes, well, as long as it flows what they claim then it's irrelevant. As you know, it comes with a load of adaptors for the 38mm ID silicon hoses that the factory supply.
Stig you say "The EWP has been updated for 2003 to provide 18% more flow (allegedly). Regarding the inlet/outlet sizes, well, as long as it flows what they claim then it's irrelevant. As you know, it comes with a load of adaptors for the 38mm ID silicon hoses that the factory supply."
The pump l recieved had no possibility of conversion to 38mm pipes, in fact the body of the pump was only just about that. l spoke to the factory who had tried this option and they confirmed my concerns that it restricted flow, not enhanced it. Have others found something bigger and better as l am keen to finalise my cooling quest with something effective.
The pump l recieved had no possibility of conversion to 38mm pipes, in fact the body of the pump was only just about that. l spoke to the factory who had tried this option and they confirmed my concerns that it restricted flow, not enhanced it. Have others found something bigger and better as l am keen to finalise my cooling quest with something effective.
The plastic pump is totlly unsuitable for big engines
I suggest (as before) you try the CSI pump
www.csiperformance.com/water_pump3.html
I suggest (as before) you try the CSI pump
www.csiperformance.com/water_pump3.html
ultiman said: Stig you say "The EWP has been updated for 2003 to provide 18% more flow (allegedly). Regarding the inlet/outlet sizes, well, as long as it flows what they claim then it's irrelevant. As you know, it comes with a load of adaptors for the 38mm ID silicon hoses that the factory supply."
The pump l recieved had no possibility of conversion to 38mm pipes, in fact the body of the pump was only just about that. l spoke to the factory who had tried this option and they confirmed my concerns that it restricted flow, not enhanced it. Have others found something bigger and better as l am keen to finalise my cooling quest with something effective.
I've got the pump sat in front of me. The inlet/outlet are actually 27mm and it comes with 4 adaptors for larger ID pipes. I emailed Davies Craig expressing concern that the pump would restrict flow as the revs increased (and therefore the mechanical pump starts working) and their MD responded saying that it would be fine when installed in series. If you have a look at the technical research on their site you'll see that beyond a threshold at higher revs, increased flow makes no difference.
At the end of the day, there's so much contradictory advice that the only way of finding out for sure is to try it. If it makes no difference (or is worse!), then c'est la vie. I'll put it on my race car instead and will have to look for a solution elsewhere.
At the end of the day, it's hard to compare with other Ultima's because of the supercharger (more to do with physical space that it takes up in the engine bay rather than it's thermal properties).
adequatespeed said: The plastic pump is totlly unsuitable for big engines
I suggest (as before) you try the CSI pump
www.csiperformance.com/water_pump3.html
Why's that then Mark as pretty much every review of the EWP that I've seen says otherwise? The product was developed primarily for 3.9L V6's but was also tested with a 5.0 V8.
See here: www.daviescraig.com.au/trade.html
The CSI is still an option and (as you know) would replace the existing mechanical pump. However, this way I've got one pump backing the other up in case of failure.
We shall see
Stig said:
adequatespeed said: The plastic pump is totlly unsuitable for big engines
I suggest (as before) you try the CSI pump
www.csiperformance.com/water_pump3.html
Why's that then Mark as pretty much every review of the EWP that I've seen says otherwise? The product was developed primarily for 3.9L V6's but was also tested with a 5.0 V8.
See here: www.daviescraig.com.au/trade.html
The CSI is still an option and (as you know) would replace the existing mechanical pump. However, this way I've got one pump backing the other up in case of failure.
We shall see
Chris:
I ordered the CSI too. Look at the 925 model. It is a remote unit which you can fit inline.
srreck said:
Stig said:
adequatespeed said: The plastic pump is totlly unsuitable for big engines
I suggest (as before) you try the CSI pump
www.csiperformance.com/water_pump3.html
Why's that then Mark as pretty much every review of the EWP that I've seen says otherwise? The product was developed primarily for 3.9L V6's but was also tested with a 5.0 V8.
See here: www.daviescraig.com.au/trade.html
The CSI is still an option and (as you know) would replace the existing mechanical pump. However, this way I've got one pump backing the other up in case of failure.
We shall see
Chris:
I ordered the CSI too. Look at the 925 model. It is a remote unit which you can fit inline.
Gah! Why didn't I spot that before. Thanks Javier - just need to find a supplier in the UK!
ultiman said: Stig you say "The EWP has been updated for 2003 to provide 18% more flow (allegedly). Regarding the inlet/outlet sizes, well, as long as it flows what they claim then it's irrelevant. As you know, it comes with a load of adaptors for the 38mm ID silicon hoses that the factory supply."
The pump l recieved had no possibility of conversion to 38mm pipes, in fact the body of the pump was only just about that. l spoke to the factory who had tried this option and they confirmed my concerns that it restricted flow, not enhanced it. Have others found something bigger and better as l am keen to finalise my cooling quest with something effective.
Hang on, there are two types of the Davies Craig unit. One is a full on pump and the other is an in-line booser. It's easy to tell the two as the full pump looks like a snail and the booster pump is bottle shaped and only about 100mm long. It's intended primarily for motorcycle use - not hulking great V8s
The snail shaped pump is fine on a big v8- I ran one for a couple of years on a tweaked BBC without a single glitch.
On my current car I have the pump switched to run if the engine is doing more than 500rpm, or if the engine temperature is higher than 70 degrees. This allows the cooling system to run on after a hard blast to avoid localised hotspots developing in the heads.
On my current car I have the pump switched to run if the engine is doing more than 500rpm, or if the engine temperature is higher than 70 degrees. This allows the cooling system to run on after a hard blast to avoid localised hotspots developing in the heads.
Stig said: Incidently, Moroso also do an electric pump drive kit.
This is basically a remotely mounted electric motor that drives the existing mechanical water pump instead of the pulley drive belt.
Chris:
I have one of these lost in a box somewhere in my workshop. What you are doing with the Moroso is virtually replacing your mechanical pump with an electrical. And it looks not very confident.
srreck said:
Stig said: Incidently, Moroso also do an electric pump drive kit.
This is basically a remotely mounted electric motor that drives the existing mechanical water pump instead of the pulley drive belt.
Chris:
I have one of these lost in a box somewhere in my workshop. What you are doing with the Moroso is virtually replacing your mechanical pump with an electrical. And it looks not very confident.
Javier,
Yup, looked into it more and it's for 'Drag use only'. The motor didn't look up to much. I've had another look at the EWP and it flows about 22 GPH which is the same as a Moroso billet remote pump, so I'm going with that.
Failing that, I'll uprate the fans. The current ones only flow 572 CFM of air whereas a Pacet Profan of the same size flows 1090! So we'd be talking double the airflow.
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