Twin Turbo LS1/LS6 GTR
Discussion
Has anyone looked into whether or not Lingenfelter would be interesting in doing an Engine/Transmission package for the GTR, using the GM LS1/LS6 platform?
I know they have a very large amount of TT experience and they know how to keep their TT powerplants running relatively cool. They use two ball bearing turbochargers, and two air to air chargecoolers. They also do some additional internal engine work to support the power output of 500 - 725 horsepower.
I'm curious to find out whether any Ultima builder has ever approached this company before with a TT package in mind. I know their prices are astronomical, but their reputation (I hear) is very solid among Corvette drivers - especially, the C5 Corvette.
I figure if anyone can do a TT on the LS1/LS6 platform correctly, I figure why not the people who build one of the fastest "street legal" LS1/LS6 powered corvettes.
I can only imagine what that level power would feel like in something as light weight as the GTR (relative to the weight of the C5).
If you have approached Lingenfelter in the past - what was their attitude with respect to the Ultima car in terms of it being a good "Tuning Platform"? Or, did they simply resign themselves to the Corvette product line?
My interest is in knowing what others have experienced when contacting Lingenfelter directly - BEFORE - I contact them myself.
L2Pilot
I know they have a very large amount of TT experience and they know how to keep their TT powerplants running relatively cool. They use two ball bearing turbochargers, and two air to air chargecoolers. They also do some additional internal engine work to support the power output of 500 - 725 horsepower.
I'm curious to find out whether any Ultima builder has ever approached this company before with a TT package in mind. I know their prices are astronomical, but their reputation (I hear) is very solid among Corvette drivers - especially, the C5 Corvette.
I figure if anyone can do a TT on the LS1/LS6 platform correctly, I figure why not the people who build one of the fastest "street legal" LS1/LS6 powered corvettes.
I can only imagine what that level power would feel like in something as light weight as the GTR (relative to the weight of the C5).
If you have approached Lingenfelter in the past - what was their attitude with respect to the Ultima car in terms of it being a good "Tuning Platform"? Or, did they simply resign themselves to the Corvette product line?
My interest is in knowing what others have experienced when contacting Lingenfelter directly - BEFORE - I contact them myself.
L2Pilot
Even though Lingenfelter tunes an amazing 750 + horsepower out of the twin turbocharged C5, the plumbing and headers would be different because of the location of the engine and because of the fact that it is a completely different car. I'm thinking the car would need a completely different approach. You should try spectrum5racing.com. Kurt Dobson has already succeeded in building a turbocharged Ultima cranking out UNGODLY amounts of horsepower. A top speed of 245 mph and a 7 second 1/4 mile is possible with his monster. Check it out...www.spectrum5racing.com
>> Edited by ULTIMALOVER on Saturday 31st May 15:38
>> Edited by ULTIMALOVER on Saturday 31st May 15:39
>> Edited by ULTIMALOVER on Saturday 31st May 15:38
>> Edited by ULTIMALOVER on Saturday 31st May 15:39
The only TT Ultima im aware of is Kurt Dobson's. www.ultimaclub.com/index-site.htm Just click on fastest ultima.
Im sure you'd be beter of just building your own setup. Having Lingenfelter build you a custom system would cost a shit load...
Im sure you'd be beter of just building your own setup. Having Lingenfelter build you a custom system would cost a shit load...
It's a shame Ultimaanimal isn't posting here anymore as he is doing a twin turbo engine in the UK.
For those over here, this guy's worked with the turbo fords including I believe the new Focus RS, so he knows his turbo stuff.
I personnely can't wait to see his car if only because Kirt's one is so far away.
For those over here, this guy's worked with the turbo fords including I believe the new Focus RS, so he knows his turbo stuff.
I personnely can't wait to see his car if only because Kirt's one is so far away.
We are delivering a twin turbo package that is designed for the C5R motor. We did a bunch of analysis on the LS1/6 bunch and depending on the cubic inches you want and your peak RPM's the strength of the standard block LS1/LS6 block at super high horsepower is unsure. The C5R block is about three times stronger in all the critical parts according to GM's finest, albiet at a 6k US price tag.
We are not suggesting that anyone put these monster packages in an Ultima GTR or Can Am, as they are not reccomended by the factory, but it will just happen to fit, custom headers and all, if you want to "throw caution to the wind", or shall I say, "to the boost".
We were considering PistonHeads advertising for the kit, but I the factory would obviously prefer we didn't. You can guess where more info will be available. As for the CAD drawing of the chassis, this is most helpful in the FEA analysis for the torsional stregth analysis of such a car, but I think you will most likely have to have it drafted yourself, as the factory would not be happy with CAD drawings of the chassis being circulated.
Also, I believe Jay V12 posts show how he tested the actual chassis in his shop if you have not seen those posts.
Craig
We are not suggesting that anyone put these monster packages in an Ultima GTR or Can Am, as they are not reccomended by the factory, but it will just happen to fit, custom headers and all, if you want to "throw caution to the wind", or shall I say, "to the boost".
We were considering PistonHeads advertising for the kit, but I the factory would obviously prefer we didn't. You can guess where more info will be available. As for the CAD drawing of the chassis, this is most helpful in the FEA analysis for the torsional stregth analysis of such a car, but I think you will most likely have to have it drafted yourself, as the factory would not be happy with CAD drawings of the chassis being circulated.
Also, I believe Jay V12 posts show how he tested the actual chassis in his shop if you have not seen those posts.
Craig
GRT-TT:
Ok - no LS1/LS6. If we promise not to tell, will you inform about which powerplant you are going with?
If not, then at least say how much power you think you will get from your TT set-up? Thanks!
Brammo:
I'm having second thoughts about putting a 1,000 horsepower GTR on the streets every other day. I plan to drive my GTR more than the average GTR driver (most probably).
So, I am now looking in the 700 hp range. I think that this is an optimal "Streetable" number for a car such as the GTR. How will the STOCK LS1/LS6 block hold up to that kind of power? How much additional internal work would need to be done on such an engine producing such output? And, could one get away with ONLY a single Turbo and STILL produce 700 to the rear wheels using the LS1/LS6?
I'm scaling down my hp requirements a bit. 1,000hp in a GTR would not be very streetable anymore, and I need to be able to drive mine more than usual.
L2
Ok - no LS1/LS6. If we promise not to tell, will you inform about which powerplant you are going with?
If not, then at least say how much power you think you will get from your TT set-up? Thanks!
Brammo:
I'm having second thoughts about putting a 1,000 horsepower GTR on the streets every other day. I plan to drive my GTR more than the average GTR driver (most probably).
So, I am now looking in the 700 hp range. I think that this is an optimal "Streetable" number for a car such as the GTR. How will the STOCK LS1/LS6 block hold up to that kind of power? How much additional internal work would need to be done on such an engine producing such output? And, could one get away with ONLY a single Turbo and STILL produce 700 to the rear wheels using the LS1/LS6?
I'm scaling down my hp requirements a bit. 1,000hp in a GTR would not be very streetable anymore, and I need to be able to drive mine more than usual.
L2
The nice thing with turbocars is that you can choose how much HP you want just by flicking a switch or turning a knob... I will build the engine to deliver 700hp on pump gas and that is what I will use on the street. With higher pressure and race gas I will reach 1000hp. With bigger turbos my engine will be able to press out 1200+ but thats far too much for me (and the car).
james said: L2Pilot,
Why exactly do you need 700 BHP at the wheels (probably C800BHP at the crank) in your street car that you're going to drive more than anybody else? Do you REALLY think that a 7-800BHP engine is going to be a good candidate for high levels of usage?
Just curious.
James
My thoughts exactly - what engine/tranny life can you really expect with those outputs. Hardly a reliable 'everyday' car.
Everyone has a different benchmark of what is the right amount of HP. Is 1000 hp ridiculous? You betcha! Do some people want it? You betcha!
In developing a twin turbo solution, you can really dial in the engine to suit your needs. The customers that are going for the twin turbo package want a car with good vacuum, a great idle and very comfortable for the street, with tremendous horsepower "on tap" for when you want it.
We also believe by managing the cam profile, the reciprocating weight and electronically controlling the boost, you can insure that the torque, the critical element in how well things like the drivetrain hold up with regular use.
The LS6 motors are ideally suited to 6200 rpm and lower as stock. The limits of a hydraulic tappet motor are about 7200 and you can get 8200 reliable rpm out of a C5R 7.0liter motor with the appropriate valve train components. As there are not a lot of companies yet delivering aftermarket components for the GEN III motors, the prices are still more expensive than traditional SBC motors.
The C5R block is three times stronger than the LS1/LS6 block, even though it is an identical casting. In order to use this block in racing in the US, you must have the same casting and design as the production cars. Though three times lighter it is 10 times more expensive as you are looking at 6k for the block. But have one sitting on your engine stand, and you will at least appreciate the beauty.
700hp is an awesome number for this car, and the factory will tell you it is too much. Our view is that you need to match the car and its drivability to your budget and your particular needs. The twin turbo, in all its various hp and CI configurations, allows you to dial in whatever you want in terms of performance and day to day comfort.
Of course as always, we recommend that you stick with the factory specifications and recommendations. Those of us who don't are clearly on our own... but that is a bit of the fun now isn't it?
Craig
cb@brammo.com
In developing a twin turbo solution, you can really dial in the engine to suit your needs. The customers that are going for the twin turbo package want a car with good vacuum, a great idle and very comfortable for the street, with tremendous horsepower "on tap" for when you want it.
We also believe by managing the cam profile, the reciprocating weight and electronically controlling the boost, you can insure that the torque, the critical element in how well things like the drivetrain hold up with regular use.
The LS6 motors are ideally suited to 6200 rpm and lower as stock. The limits of a hydraulic tappet motor are about 7200 and you can get 8200 reliable rpm out of a C5R 7.0liter motor with the appropriate valve train components. As there are not a lot of companies yet delivering aftermarket components for the GEN III motors, the prices are still more expensive than traditional SBC motors.
The C5R block is three times stronger than the LS1/LS6 block, even though it is an identical casting. In order to use this block in racing in the US, you must have the same casting and design as the production cars. Though three times lighter it is 10 times more expensive as you are looking at 6k for the block. But have one sitting on your engine stand, and you will at least appreciate the beauty.
700hp is an awesome number for this car, and the factory will tell you it is too much. Our view is that you need to match the car and its drivability to your budget and your particular needs. The twin turbo, in all its various hp and CI configurations, allows you to dial in whatever you want in terms of performance and day to day comfort.
Of course as always, we recommend that you stick with the factory specifications and recommendations. Those of us who don't are clearly on our own... but that is a bit of the fun now isn't it?
Craig
cb@brammo.com
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