Problem with CV joint bolts on CanAm
Discussion
GTRCLIVE,
Thanks - this is the type of information I was looking for.
I'm an Engineer by formal education and Tactical Combat Pilot by Profession (Retired), so I understand what "mission critical" is, and more importantly, what it is not. Given my background, I tend to lean towards "SAFETY", "RELIABILITY", "PURPOSE" and "FUNCTION" (SRPF).
When I hear of "mission critical" elements of high-performance MACHINES failing - that is all I need to become EXTREMELY concerned PRIOR to making any purchase of said machine. Seems like common sense to a stable minded person, I'm sure.
Your post lists facts about your experience with a MAJOR component that FAILED in another car very similar to your own. I'd be a TOTAL and COMPLETE FOOL to not get VERY concerned about that.
At the same time (according to your post) the way you drive your machine (High-Performance Driving) should bring out any design defect in the above mentioned component - if one truly existed. Yet, your experience has been much different. This is the kind of information I need as it helps me to reconcile the: "It just failed" posts, with the: "No. My machine functions just fine" posts.
In other words, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I don't want to know about all the "Good" to the total exclusion of the rest. Relying on the "Good" alone in pre-purchase mode, could be fatal. If not, then at the very least, extremely foolish.
Given that these high-performance machines are HAND-BUILT by "potentially" novice builders, or people with no engineering, or mechanical background in the form of formal training, or like education, I find your post to be very much on-target, and very relevant. Not to mention very helpful.
Thanks again for posting the "facts" about your experience in this area. That is part of the reason why I'm here.
-------------------------
Thanks - this is the type of information I was looking for.
I'm an Engineer by formal education and Tactical Combat Pilot by Profession (Retired), so I understand what "mission critical" is, and more importantly, what it is not. Given my background, I tend to lean towards "SAFETY", "RELIABILITY", "PURPOSE" and "FUNCTION" (SRPF).
When I hear of "mission critical" elements of high-performance MACHINES failing - that is all I need to become EXTREMELY concerned PRIOR to making any purchase of said machine. Seems like common sense to a stable minded person, I'm sure.
Your post lists facts about your experience with a MAJOR component that FAILED in another car very similar to your own. I'd be a TOTAL and COMPLETE FOOL to not get VERY concerned about that.
At the same time (according to your post) the way you drive your machine (High-Performance Driving) should bring out any design defect in the above mentioned component - if one truly existed. Yet, your experience has been much different. This is the kind of information I need as it helps me to reconcile the: "It just failed" posts, with the: "No. My machine functions just fine" posts.
In other words, the Good, the Bad and the Ugly. I don't want to know about all the "Good" to the total exclusion of the rest. Relying on the "Good" alone in pre-purchase mode, could be fatal. If not, then at the very least, extremely foolish.
Given that these high-performance machines are HAND-BUILT by "potentially" novice builders, or people with no engineering, or mechanical background in the form of formal training, or like education, I find your post to be very much on-target, and very relevant. Not to mention very helpful.
Thanks again for posting the "facts" about your experience in this area. That is part of the reason why I'm here.
-------------------------
L2,
I think I can safely say that we've all had an incling that you're from an engineering background (as are other contributors to the forum).
However, what I need to make clear is that the Ultima is designed WITH the novice builder in mind. ALL the calculations regarding polar moment of intertia, centre of gravity, slip angle, the capacitance of the flux drive capacitor etc. are the domain (in the most part) of the factory who have been supplying cars for about 17 years. It's a conscious decision on the factory's part to make things easy, yet safe for the NOVICE and all cars (well, in the UK anyway) are subject to a factory safety inspection before they hit the road.
Obviously, I, like most owners are very interested in anything to do with making the cars safe, but you do get rather over excited when a 'typical' hiccup like the driveshaft bolts becomes something that will KILL you???
I suppose this is a direct result of your rather technical engineering background, so we can't be too harsh on you for that - probably force of habit.
So it's a car for EITHER a novice or a technically experienced builder.
As a forum, I don't think anyone objects sincerely to your posts, albeit that they're sometimes overtly technical and this isn't supposed to be a forum to discuss conjecture about the 'potential' technicalities regarding the cars, it's about REAL experience with them and we, as owners, are more than happy to share our experiences so that potential owners such as yourself, are armed with far more information than we had.
Now let's all put our handbags away shall we
I think I can safely say that we've all had an incling that you're from an engineering background (as are other contributors to the forum).
However, what I need to make clear is that the Ultima is designed WITH the novice builder in mind. ALL the calculations regarding polar moment of intertia, centre of gravity, slip angle, the capacitance of the flux drive capacitor etc. are the domain (in the most part) of the factory who have been supplying cars for about 17 years. It's a conscious decision on the factory's part to make things easy, yet safe for the NOVICE and all cars (well, in the UK anyway) are subject to a factory safety inspection before they hit the road.
Obviously, I, like most owners are very interested in anything to do with making the cars safe, but you do get rather over excited when a 'typical' hiccup like the driveshaft bolts becomes something that will KILL you???
I suppose this is a direct result of your rather technical engineering background, so we can't be too harsh on you for that - probably force of habit.
So it's a car for EITHER a novice or a technically experienced builder.
As a forum, I don't think anyone objects sincerely to your posts, albeit that they're sometimes overtly technical and this isn't supposed to be a forum to discuss conjecture about the 'potential' technicalities regarding the cars, it's about REAL experience with them and we, as owners, are more than happy to share our experiences so that potential owners such as yourself, are armed with far more information than we had.
Now let's all put our handbags away shall we
Thanks for the information. I Did not know that.
At first glance, this site looked like it would be a "Builders Technical Platform" for the Ultima. Upon further inspection, I think not. And, that is exactly what I need especially at this stage.
If, the Ultima grows in popularity here in the United States, I will entertain the idea of hosting a Technical Website dedicated to the nomenclature of the Ultima, for those who are looking for optimal performance out of the car (beyond mere stock configurations).
In the U.S., we do modify our cars way beyond what the manufacturer supports, or recommends. So, leaning heavily on Ultima for my concerns is not going to cut it. High-Performance Racing is huge in this country both as a Profession and as a Hobby. The Indy 500 and the Daytona 500 are testaments to our Professional approach to Racing.
We tend to take it very seriously, both in hobby and in work, and therefore need the most accurate and technical information available. Unfortunately, most of this "information" DOES NOT come from the manufacturer. It comes from people who have successfully transformed the manufacturers' creation into a more optimal platform for: "Fill in the blank".
There is a LOT that can be done to this car to improve its performance. There is a LOT that can be done to most manufactured cars to improve their performance, drivability, safety, and endurance. Not to mention economy.
There is a very good reason why an Indy car stays glued to the track inside a turn at 223+ mph, while your typical "manufactured" car (of any make or model) would fly-off the course and into the wall "if" it could reach those speeds.
The answer can be summed up in one word: "Engineering". Engineers need feedback from drivers in order to build better cars - not necessarily manufacturers.
CV Joints falling apart at speed could be catastrophic. WHY? Because, it would NOT ONLY be the CV Joint that failed. Simple Impact Analysis of CVJ failure at speed would clearly demonstrate this fact. We are talking about a potential 200+ mph car here!!!
It is not the "part" that matters (in some cases), but the role the part plays in the car and its relationship (Impact Analysis) to OTHER PARTS that matters most. Anyone who has ever raced a car knows that much. How that can be down-played as minor simply blows my mind. To each his own, however.
Thanks again for informing me about the nature of this site. Accordingly, (and most appropriately) please delete the "L2Pilot" account, as it no longer makes sense for me to continue posting here, given the purpose of this non-technical forum.
Maybe one day, there will be enough of a U.S. presence to warrant a technical site much the same way there is for the C5, C6, Viper, etc. The GTR/CanAm is after all a very beautiful looking car.
Good luck with the car, and with this site.
At first glance, this site looked like it would be a "Builders Technical Platform" for the Ultima. Upon further inspection, I think not. And, that is exactly what I need especially at this stage.
If, the Ultima grows in popularity here in the United States, I will entertain the idea of hosting a Technical Website dedicated to the nomenclature of the Ultima, for those who are looking for optimal performance out of the car (beyond mere stock configurations).
In the U.S., we do modify our cars way beyond what the manufacturer supports, or recommends. So, leaning heavily on Ultima for my concerns is not going to cut it. High-Performance Racing is huge in this country both as a Profession and as a Hobby. The Indy 500 and the Daytona 500 are testaments to our Professional approach to Racing.
We tend to take it very seriously, both in hobby and in work, and therefore need the most accurate and technical information available. Unfortunately, most of this "information" DOES NOT come from the manufacturer. It comes from people who have successfully transformed the manufacturers' creation into a more optimal platform for: "Fill in the blank".
There is a LOT that can be done to this car to improve its performance. There is a LOT that can be done to most manufactured cars to improve their performance, drivability, safety, and endurance. Not to mention economy.
There is a very good reason why an Indy car stays glued to the track inside a turn at 223+ mph, while your typical "manufactured" car (of any make or model) would fly-off the course and into the wall "if" it could reach those speeds.
The answer can be summed up in one word: "Engineering". Engineers need feedback from drivers in order to build better cars - not necessarily manufacturers.
CV Joints falling apart at speed could be catastrophic. WHY? Because, it would NOT ONLY be the CV Joint that failed. Simple Impact Analysis of CVJ failure at speed would clearly demonstrate this fact. We are talking about a potential 200+ mph car here!!!
It is not the "part" that matters (in some cases), but the role the part plays in the car and its relationship (Impact Analysis) to OTHER PARTS that matters most. Anyone who has ever raced a car knows that much. How that can be down-played as minor simply blows my mind. To each his own, however.
Thanks again for informing me about the nature of this site. Accordingly, (and most appropriately) please delete the "L2Pilot" account, as it no longer makes sense for me to continue posting here, given the purpose of this non-technical forum.
Maybe one day, there will be enough of a U.S. presence to warrant a technical site much the same way there is for the C5, C6, Viper, etc. The GTR/CanAm is after all a very beautiful looking car.
Good luck with the car, and with this site.
Been following this from the sidelines.... Seems to me:
CVJoint did not fail it just came loose from the output shaft of the transaxle and can easily be re-fitted as discussed. It's good enough for Porsche that way too.....
L2Pilot lost his cool when the mission got tough - glad he retired from dropping bombs...
This site is a wealth of valuable Ultima info, exchange of views and ideas. The fact that it's free and self regulating means it can be totally independent and uncompromising. Experience gained here will save many hours of head scratching, leaving way more time for the 'willy waving'
Cheers,
Dave
CVJoint did not fail it just came loose from the output shaft of the transaxle and can easily be re-fitted as discussed. It's good enough for Porsche that way too.....
L2Pilot lost his cool when the mission got tough - glad he retired from dropping bombs...
This site is a wealth of valuable Ultima info, exchange of views and ideas. The fact that it's free and self regulating means it can be totally independent and uncompromising. Experience gained here will save many hours of head scratching, leaving way more time for the 'willy waving'
Cheers,
Dave
As Dave says, The design of the drive shaft joint is good enough for both Porsche (Gbox) and Ford (Drive shaft) and has been so for many years.
The indication is that perhaps the increased load and torsional shock of our high output engines is the problem.
For my own installation I will either fit ‘Schnorr’ type lock washers or Loctite. I may even use both.
Steve
The indication is that perhaps the increased load and torsional shock of our high output engines is the problem.
For my own installation I will either fit ‘Schnorr’ type lock washers or Loctite. I may even use both.
Steve
I still feel the best way is locking wire. If it's good enough to lock a propeller with, I'm sure it's good enough for a hub.
Have been working on getting the CanAm ready for it's first show this coming Sunday, so have been finishing up the rear grill and headlight covers, but will be able to see about drilling the cap heads tomorrow. Will post the results.
Jack
Have been working on getting the CanAm ready for it's first show this coming Sunday, so have been finishing up the rear grill and headlight covers, but will be able to see about drilling the cap heads tomorrow. Will post the results.
Jack
Steve_D said: Jack
If the bolts are the right grade you should not be able to drill them. Buy bolts that are predrilled before the bolts are heat treated.
Steve
Steve
Not sure if I can get metric drilled cap screws in this country. They're probably 8 or 8.8 grade, which can be drilled. The supplied bolts are not that hard, although I haven't tried to drill them yet. These bolts are more under a shear load, which usually means the bolts don't have to be as hard.
Thanks
Jack
In final reply to an expected (and very predictable) post (because I don't compromise either), I'll say this:
A CV Assembly that "comes loose" at anytime and in any manner (other than for maintenance) in my book is a CV Assembly that just failed - period. No compromising - remember.
As far as "losing my cool" is concerned, you are perfectly clueless. Try building one of these www.viperjet.com/images/VJflyby.wmv, drop it to about 300 ft AGL, then bring up the power to a mild transonic speed of Mach .85, pull back into an 8g climb until you are ballistic over the top. THEN we can talk about losing your cool - if you have not blacked-out by then. "Willy Wave" this.
Remember, you cannot "lose" something that is inherently yours. Either you "are" cool, or you are not - it cannot be faked, nor taken from you.
Sitting on the sidelines best describes where the writer of that post needs to stay. The playing field is much too volatile a place for one so misinformed.
You make me laugh.
-----------------------------------
BTW - No Prop should EVER be secured with safety wire. They ARE locked into place with spec'd Internal Hubs and spec'd Lock Nuts BEHIND the Prop flange - this by definition is a superior design. But, it depends on whether or not you are dealing with a Variable Pitch Constant Speed Prop, or a Fixed Pitch Prop. One uses a governor while the other does not. The mechanics of securing each type are different. Just to clear the air of even MORE rumor.
Keep building, and have fun. Just don't end up a statistic joined by faulty mechanics. Eyes wide open, please. Shutting them is foolish.
>> Edited by L2Pilot on Friday 13th June 01:08
A CV Assembly that "comes loose" at anytime and in any manner (other than for maintenance) in my book is a CV Assembly that just failed - period. No compromising - remember.
As far as "losing my cool" is concerned, you are perfectly clueless. Try building one of these www.viperjet.com/images/VJflyby.wmv, drop it to about 300 ft AGL, then bring up the power to a mild transonic speed of Mach .85, pull back into an 8g climb until you are ballistic over the top. THEN we can talk about losing your cool - if you have not blacked-out by then. "Willy Wave" this.
Remember, you cannot "lose" something that is inherently yours. Either you "are" cool, or you are not - it cannot be faked, nor taken from you.
Sitting on the sidelines best describes where the writer of that post needs to stay. The playing field is much too volatile a place for one so misinformed.
You make me laugh.
-----------------------------------
BTW - No Prop should EVER be secured with safety wire. They ARE locked into place with spec'd Internal Hubs and spec'd Lock Nuts BEHIND the Prop flange - this by definition is a superior design. But, it depends on whether or not you are dealing with a Variable Pitch Constant Speed Prop, or a Fixed Pitch Prop. One uses a governor while the other does not. The mechanics of securing each type are different. Just to clear the air of even MORE rumor.
Keep building, and have fun. Just don't end up a statistic joined by faulty mechanics. Eyes wide open, please. Shutting them is foolish.
>> Edited by L2Pilot on Friday 13th June 01:08
L2 Pilot(?)
I resolved not get into this pissing match between you and the legitimate contributors to this forum, but when you tell me that I don't know how to secure a constant speed propeller, that did it. Look at this.
http://home.attbi.com/~rosenracing4/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
That's an M.T. composite constant speed prop, and don't tell me about pulling G's behind it. I built that plane, and it easily takes 10 G's positive and negative.
All we've heard from you is how to re-design the Ultima wing and everything else on the car, and you've supported your "improvements" with all kinds of text book mumbo-jumbo.
I'm a 6000 hr+ Airline Transport Pilot (I have my ticket in my pocket if you want to see it), and a wall full of trophys from aerobatic competition, so once again, don't tell me how to pull G's and secure a prop. I've done negative G's and 420' per second rolls that would have your testicles coming out your ears.
What have you done that you can prove. I have an SCCA racing license also in my pocket, and have driven an Ultima that I built.
What have you done that you can substantite?
We thought you had signed off in a previous post.
Keep it that way.
And when I secure my prop, I do it the hard way, with .041 wire, not the easy way with .035.
Jack
I resolved not get into this pissing match between you and the legitimate contributors to this forum, but when you tell me that I don't know how to secure a constant speed propeller, that did it. Look at this.
http://home.attbi.com/~rosenracing4/wsb/html/view.cgi-home.html-.html
That's an M.T. composite constant speed prop, and don't tell me about pulling G's behind it. I built that plane, and it easily takes 10 G's positive and negative.
All we've heard from you is how to re-design the Ultima wing and everything else on the car, and you've supported your "improvements" with all kinds of text book mumbo-jumbo.
I'm a 6000 hr+ Airline Transport Pilot (I have my ticket in my pocket if you want to see it), and a wall full of trophys from aerobatic competition, so once again, don't tell me how to pull G's and secure a prop. I've done negative G's and 420' per second rolls that would have your testicles coming out your ears.
What have you done that you can prove. I have an SCCA racing license also in my pocket, and have driven an Ultima that I built.
What have you done that you can substantite?
We thought you had signed off in a previous post.
Keep it that way.
And when I secure my prop, I do it the hard way, with .041 wire, not the easy way with .035.
Jack
L2Pilot said: Thanks for the information. I Did not know that.
At first glance, this site looked like it would be a "Builders Technical Platform" for the Ultima. Upon further inspection, I think not. And, that is exactly what I need especially at this stage.
If, the Ultima grows in popularity here in the United States, I will entertain the idea of hosting a Technical Website dedicated to the nomenclature of the Ultima, for those who are looking for optimal performance out of the car (beyond mere stock configurations).
In the U.S., we do modify our cars way beyond what the manufacturer supports, or recommends. So, leaning heavily on Ultima for my concerns is not going to cut it. High-Performance Racing is huge in this country both as a Profession and as a Hobby. The Indy 500 and the Daytona 500 are testaments to our Professional approach to Racing.
We tend to take it very seriously, both in hobby and in work, and therefore need the most accurate and technical information available. Unfortunately, most of this "information" DOES NOT come from the manufacturer. It comes from people who have successfully transformed the manufacturers' creation into a more optimal platform for: "Fill in the blank".
There is a LOT that can be done to this car to improve its performance. There is a LOT that can be done to most manufactured cars to improve their performance, drivability, safety, and endurance. Not to mention economy.
There is a very good reason why an Indy car stays glued to the track inside a turn at 223+ mph, while your typical "manufactured" car (of any make or model) would fly-off the course and into the wall "if" it could reach those speeds.
The answer can be summed up in one word: "Engineering". Engineers need feedback from drivers in order to build better cars - not necessarily manufacturers.
CV Joints falling apart at speed could be catastrophic. WHY? Because, it would NOT ONLY be the CV Joint that failed. Simple Impact Analysis of CVJ failure at speed would clearly demonstrate this fact. We are talking about a potential 200+ mph car here!!!
It is not the "part" that matters (in some cases), but the role the part plays in the car and its relationship (Impact Analysis) to OTHER PARTS that matters most. Anyone who has ever raced a car knows that much. How that can be down-played as minor simply blows my mind. To each his own, however.
Thanks again for informing me about the nature of this site. Accordingly, (and most appropriately) please delete the "L2Pilot" account, as it no longer makes sense for me to continue posting here, given the purpose of this non-technical forum.
Maybe one day, there will be enough of a U.S. presence to warrant a technical site much the same way there is for the C5, C6, Viper, etc. The GTR/CanAm is after all a very beautiful looking car.
Good luck with the car, and with this site.
Sorry Mr Pilot but, I to love the American way, but I think that we over here also have a little experience in car racing !!!!! I think It was only in 1997 with the C5 Vette that you boys over there finaly managed to produce a car that would pull " 1G " in a bend ( on a flat road ). So don't start preaching on about your better than us sh**, us in Europe have alittle more history than that. Or perhaps you are just one of those Head stuck up your own types....
My car has over 3,000 miles and 4 weekends at the drag strip, and those Factory standard drive shafts are fine. Only problem i've had was with the Porsche stanard ones which snapped. The factory ones have been perfect, so stop and think before you start slating them.
Rant over..
Jack:
That is a really impressive looking Airplane you've got there. I love all aircraft regardless of how limited in their capabilities they might be. However, the Viperjet that I am building is (well, how shall I say it) a little "different".
Try this on for size. Viperjet upon completion (according to my modifications):
A) All Composite. All components FEA. www.AirBoss-Aerospace.com Engineered.
B) Cruise speed: Mach .8+
C) Vne Speed: 604 mph
D) Stall Speed: 78 kts dirty
E) Climb Rate: 17,000 feet per minute @ zero ASL (best)
F) Cruise Altitude: 41,000 feet (optimal)
G) GW Aerobatic: 3,800 lbs (5,000 max)
H) Range: 1,100 SM
I) Engine Management: FADEC
J) Cockpit: Glass EFIS with WX Scope & GPS (Dual)
K) Aerobatic: Advanced
L) G-Loads: 12 positive, 12 negative, 12 Transverse
M) L-Roll: 2,000 ft @ zero ASL
N) T/O Roll: 1,200 ft @ zero ASL
O) Flight Profile: VFR/IFR/IMC/Night
P) Engine: GE J-85. 3000 lbs thrust. 8-Stage Axial Flow compressor w/ 2 Stage turbine
Please visit www.viperjet.com and take a look at some of my build pictures (look under “Customer Pictures). Of course, the "One" is a nice airplane, Jack. It is just not in the ViperJet category, that's all.
You have a nice CV, Jack. (and I do not mean CV Joint) But, you still don't get it do you.
Here is "part" of my Curriculum Vitae CV (certain things withheld on a need to know basis). That means that if you can demonstrate that you have a need to know, I will inform you. If you cannot, I will not.
So, let me take a shot at this, Jack. Here we go:
0) High School Graduate in 3yrs – one year ahead of class with 4.1 GPA
1) Private Pilot at the age of 18 in under 42hrs - beating the national average by 21hrs
2) Ratings: Instrument, CFI, CFII, Multi, Comm, ATP, and 2 Jet Type Ratings before the age of 23 from FTI, Denver, Co. and Flight Safety in Vero Beach, Florida.
3) Bachelors: Physics (emphasis: Quantum Mechanics)
4) Masters: Aerospace Science Engineering (emphasis: Aerodynamics)
5) Embry Riddle Aeronautical University Graduate: 3.92 GPA and Deans List 3 consecutive years
6) USAF UPT Graduate 1991 - Top 5 in T-37's. Top 2 in T-38's
7) Fighter Transition School Graduate 1992
8) Assigned to First Fighter Squadron 1993
9) Assigned F-15-D, F-15-E (Intercept/Strike)
10) 30+ Actual Combat Missions Flown - don't ask
11) USAF Test Pilot School Graduate 1997
12) Assigned Advanced Tactical Fighter Program 1999 - don't ask
13) Retired 2002
14) Rank: Major
Aircraft flown:
Lear 25, 35, 55, Military C-20 (Lear), Citation III & IV, G-IV, Hawker 400XP, Falcon 2000, C-5, Cheyenne, Extra 300, Pitts S2B (modified to 500 hp), T-38/37, L-39C, L-59A, F-15, F-16, F-111, A-10, F-5, and three others that I cannot specify in any way shape or form (don't ask).
Got Milk?
You’ve got aerobatic competition plaques hanging on your wall for flying a low performance 200 hp "kite", in perfect weather and with no one shooting at you trying to kill you - Congratulations, Jack! Great job! I love aerobatics too, Jack. But you are trying to compare apples to moon rocks, here.
I flew air combat missions, in poor weather, with poor visibility, at night, with surface-to-air fire trying to remove my presence from the sky, just so you can go on flying "aerobatics" in your "One kite" in sunny skies in order to impress the judges and win more plaques to put on your wall. Jack, I could eat your 6000hrs, your ATP, and your 200 hp "kite" for lunch, and not even burp. Keep it in the “box”, Jack where it belongs. You have wondered way outside of your "box".
Your post was very cute, but rather lacking in scope as you now can see. Relax and have fun, Jack. There are people out there every day making sure that you have the freedom to fly your "kite" and win more plaques. I think the picture is a lot clearer now that you have better perspective.
Sorry, to burst your bubble that way but you needed a little wake-up call. You tossed your 6000hrs, ATP and "One Kite" in my face as if you were Sir. Charles Lindberg himself arisen from the grave. I'm poking you about the "Kite" thing, Jack. I really like your aircraft and respect all the time and attention you put into it.
However, trying to compare a Viperjet to a 200 hp SEL fixed gear aerobatic machine, is like trying to compare Tiger Woods to me. It just makes no sense. They are two entirely different worlds of flight. The Viperjet is very similar to an F-5 from a performance standpoint. I will be cruising at flight level 41. The only way your "One" will reach that flight level, is if you get a 747-400 to piggy-back you up there like the Space Shuttle. Even then, your engine would starve from a lack of air.
It has been fun Jack, but I must stop wasting my time here. I'll try to refrain from looking at what anyone else posts next - although it should be hilarious whatever it is. Good luck with your car and your "One" - it is a very nice looking Aircraft. Just not my speed, that's all.
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:08
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:10
That is a really impressive looking Airplane you've got there. I love all aircraft regardless of how limited in their capabilities they might be. However, the Viperjet that I am building is (well, how shall I say it) a little "different".
Try this on for size. Viperjet upon completion (according to my modifications):
A) All Composite. All components FEA. www.AirBoss-Aerospace.com Engineered.
B) Cruise speed: Mach .8+
C) Vne Speed: 604 mph
D) Stall Speed: 78 kts dirty
E) Climb Rate: 17,000 feet per minute @ zero ASL (best)
F) Cruise Altitude: 41,000 feet (optimal)
G) GW Aerobatic: 3,800 lbs (5,000 max)
H) Range: 1,100 SM
I) Engine Management: FADEC
J) Cockpit: Glass EFIS with WX Scope & GPS (Dual)
K) Aerobatic: Advanced
L) G-Loads: 12 positive, 12 negative, 12 Transverse
M) L-Roll: 2,000 ft @ zero ASL
N) T/O Roll: 1,200 ft @ zero ASL
O) Flight Profile: VFR/IFR/IMC/Night
P) Engine: GE J-85. 3000 lbs thrust. 8-Stage Axial Flow compressor w/ 2 Stage turbine
Please visit www.viperjet.com and take a look at some of my build pictures (look under “Customer Pictures). Of course, the "One" is a nice airplane, Jack. It is just not in the ViperJet category, that's all.
You have a nice CV, Jack. (and I do not mean CV Joint) But, you still don't get it do you.
Here is "part" of my Curriculum Vitae CV (certain things withheld on a need to know basis). That means that if you can demonstrate that you have a need to know, I will inform you. If you cannot, I will not.
So, let me take a shot at this, Jack. Here we go:
0) High School Graduate in 3yrs – one year ahead of class with 4.1 GPA
1) Private Pilot at the age of 18 in under 42hrs - beating the national average by 21hrs
2) Ratings: Instrument, CFI, CFII, Multi, Comm, ATP, and 2 Jet Type Ratings before the age of 23 from FTI, Denver, Co. and Flight Safety in Vero Beach, Florida.
3) Bachelors: Physics (emphasis: Quantum Mechanics)
4) Masters: Aerospace Science Engineering (emphasis: Aerodynamics)
5) Embry Riddle Aeronautical University Graduate: 3.92 GPA and Deans List 3 consecutive years
6) USAF UPT Graduate 1991 - Top 5 in T-37's. Top 2 in T-38's
7) Fighter Transition School Graduate 1992
8) Assigned to First Fighter Squadron 1993
9) Assigned F-15-D, F-15-E (Intercept/Strike)
10) 30+ Actual Combat Missions Flown - don't ask
11) USAF Test Pilot School Graduate 1997
12) Assigned Advanced Tactical Fighter Program 1999 - don't ask
13) Retired 2002
14) Rank: Major
Aircraft flown:
Lear 25, 35, 55, Military C-20 (Lear), Citation III & IV, G-IV, Hawker 400XP, Falcon 2000, C-5, Cheyenne, Extra 300, Pitts S2B (modified to 500 hp), T-38/37, L-39C, L-59A, F-15, F-16, F-111, A-10, F-5, and three others that I cannot specify in any way shape or form (don't ask).
Got Milk?
You’ve got aerobatic competition plaques hanging on your wall for flying a low performance 200 hp "kite", in perfect weather and with no one shooting at you trying to kill you - Congratulations, Jack! Great job! I love aerobatics too, Jack. But you are trying to compare apples to moon rocks, here.
I flew air combat missions, in poor weather, with poor visibility, at night, with surface-to-air fire trying to remove my presence from the sky, just so you can go on flying "aerobatics" in your "One kite" in sunny skies in order to impress the judges and win more plaques to put on your wall. Jack, I could eat your 6000hrs, your ATP, and your 200 hp "kite" for lunch, and not even burp. Keep it in the “box”, Jack where it belongs. You have wondered way outside of your "box".
Your post was very cute, but rather lacking in scope as you now can see. Relax and have fun, Jack. There are people out there every day making sure that you have the freedom to fly your "kite" and win more plaques. I think the picture is a lot clearer now that you have better perspective.
Sorry, to burst your bubble that way but you needed a little wake-up call. You tossed your 6000hrs, ATP and "One Kite" in my face as if you were Sir. Charles Lindberg himself arisen from the grave. I'm poking you about the "Kite" thing, Jack. I really like your aircraft and respect all the time and attention you put into it.
However, trying to compare a Viperjet to a 200 hp SEL fixed gear aerobatic machine, is like trying to compare Tiger Woods to me. It just makes no sense. They are two entirely different worlds of flight. The Viperjet is very similar to an F-5 from a performance standpoint. I will be cruising at flight level 41. The only way your "One" will reach that flight level, is if you get a 747-400 to piggy-back you up there like the Space Shuttle. Even then, your engine would starve from a lack of air.
It has been fun Jack, but I must stop wasting my time here. I'll try to refrain from looking at what anyone else posts next - although it should be hilarious whatever it is. Good luck with your car and your "One" - it is a very nice looking Aircraft. Just not my speed, that's all.
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:08
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:10
BTW - the word is spelled: "Substantiate", Jack.
And, if I provided any more "substance" I'd have to lock you up in jail and throw away the key.
No, I do not hold a National SCCA License - yet. I've been too busy with "other" duties over the years, Jack. You've got 6000hrs of flight time, so I'm sure you understand. I've been too busy trying to perfect my skills as an Eagle Driver.
Now that I no longer have those duties, I think I just might "qualify" for an SCCA ticket. Or, maybe I'll need more high-performance experience - gee, you think?
I'll see you at an FBO some day, Jack. Or, maybe a pilots lounge somewhere. You can give me some stick time in your "One", and I'll give you some stick time in my ViperJet. We'll end up good buddies - I'm sure of it.
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:30
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:31
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:32
And, if I provided any more "substance" I'd have to lock you up in jail and throw away the key.
No, I do not hold a National SCCA License - yet. I've been too busy with "other" duties over the years, Jack. You've got 6000hrs of flight time, so I'm sure you understand. I've been too busy trying to perfect my skills as an Eagle Driver.
Now that I no longer have those duties, I think I just might "qualify" for an SCCA ticket. Or, maybe I'll need more high-performance experience - gee, you think?
I'll see you at an FBO some day, Jack. Or, maybe a pilots lounge somewhere.
You can give me some stick time in your "One", and I'll give you some stick time in my ViperJet. We'll end up good buddies - I'm sure of it. >> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:30
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:31
>> Edited by l2pilot on Saturday 14th June 08:32
If that wasn't the biggest willy wave in history, I don't know what was.
Get a life L2. We're here talking about cars. We don't care whether you flew an F-15 of the Space Shuttle.
I'm sure that all the citizens of the USA are really pleased that you spent so much time making their lives safe and free from all thouse nasty people out there who didn't want to eat McDonalds and Hershy bars and wash it down with caffiene free diet coke. However, it doesn't have much to do with the Ultima.
James
Get a life L2. We're here talking about cars. We don't care whether you flew an F-15 of the Space Shuttle.
I'm sure that all the citizens of the USA are really pleased that you spent so much time making their lives safe and free from all thouse nasty people out there who didn't want to eat McDonalds and Hershy bars and wash it down with caffiene free diet coke. However, it doesn't have much to do with the Ultima.
James
I personnelly work with people who actually design the bit's that go to make the planes you guys are talking about, we also do research work for formula 1 teams etc....
There are always people out there that have done/know more than you..... Personnely it is a dream of mine to learn to fly and would love to have been a pilot.... many however couldn't care less and it's totally irrelavent.
Maybe in the next thread we can start a 'I'm harder than you' type conversation.... now that would be a laugh!
There are always people out there that have done/know more than you..... Personnely it is a dream of mine to learn to fly and would love to have been a pilot.... many however couldn't care less and it's totally irrelavent.
Maybe in the next thread we can start a 'I'm harder than you' type conversation.... now that would be a laugh!
ultimaandy said: I personnelly work with people who actually design the bit's that go to make the planes you guys are talking about, we also do research work for formula 1 teams etc....
There are always people out there that have done/know more than you..... Personnely it is a dream of mine to learn to fly and would love to have been a pilot.... many however couldn't care less and it's totally irrelavent.
Maybe in the next thread we can start a 'I'm harder than you' type conversation.... now that would be a laugh!
i would very much doubt the host server could cope with all the testosterone fuelled egos
Stig said: L2,
I think I can safely say that we've all had an incling that you're from an engineering background (as are other contributors to the forum).
However, what I need to make clear is that the Ultima is designed WITH the novice builder in mind. ALL the calculations regarding polar moment of intertia, centre of gravity, slip angle, the capacitance of the flux drive capacitor etc. are the domain (in the most part) of the factory who have been supplying cars for about 17 years. It's a conscious decision on the factory's part to make things easy, yet safe for the NOVICE and all cars (well, in the UK anyway) are subject to a factory safety inspection before they hit the road.
Obviously, I, like most owners are very interested in anything to do with making the cars safe, but you do get rather over excited when a 'typical' hiccup like the driveshaft bolts becomes something that will KILL you???
I suppose this is a direct result of your rather technical engineering background, so we can't be too harsh on you for that - probably force of habit.
So it's a car for EITHER a novice or a technically experienced builder.
As a forum, I don't think anyone objects sincerely to your posts, albeit that they're sometimes overtly technical and this isn't supposed to be a forum to discuss conjecture about the 'potential' technicalities regarding the cars, it's about REAL experience with them and we, as owners, are more than happy to share our experiences so that potential owners such as yourself, are armed with far more information than we had.
Now let's all put our handbags away shall we
If you look VERY carefully ......... It is all said in black and white (Sorry CJ, I've just got home and read the rest of the thread. It needs to be said mate, it needs to be said!)
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