Attacking the CanAm Heat Problem
Discussion
Here is another idea. I think I will build a little scoop onto the dash piece in front of the windshield. From the picture it looks like there are a few inches before the hood section. Then route the air under the dash.
Once I get mine made if other are interested I could make a mold out of it and make copies. Fiberglass or carbonfiber. Here is a bike windscreen I made out of black carbon and a rear hugger out of blue/black carbon
. Both molds where made off original factory peices for customers.
My car is still along way from getting the body on but I'll post pictures with what ever option I end up with. Please forgive the quick photo shop pictures.
mark
Once I get mine made if other are interested I could make a mold out of it and make copies. Fiberglass or carbonfiber. Here is a bike windscreen I made out of black carbon and a rear hugger out of blue/black carbon
. Both molds where made off original factory peices for customers.
My car is still along way from getting the body on but I'll post pictures with what ever option I end up with. Please forgive the quick photo shop pictures.
mark
The scoop in front of the screen looks good. But how cool is the air? I would have thought that the air at that point is mainly from the front radiator due to the cars aerodynamic efficiency. Does much cool unheated air penetrate the radiator scoop stream at that point? I'm suprised if much cool air does. Isn't this confirmed if you look at the MIRA windtunnel images?
On the Canam, the space in front of the screen is where the windscreen wiper is fitted. Is there enough space for this long slot? Does it not weaken the body at this point?
At first glance, managing the air through ducts inside the cockpit around the wiper motor into the heater fan assembly etc looks too difficult. Unlike ducting from the front brake duct would allow air filtation and control. What about rain water entering your screen base slot?
On the Canam, the space in front of the screen is where the windscreen wiper is fitted. Is there enough space for this long slot? Does it not weaken the body at this point?
At first glance, managing the air through ducts inside the cockpit around the wiper motor into the heater fan assembly etc looks too difficult. Unlike ducting from the front brake duct would allow air filtation and control. What about rain water entering your screen base slot?
You’re probably right about the air being heated since it is coming off the radiator. I didn't think about that. I was just trying to think of a spot that would blend in with the car. In my case I don't have to worry about the wiper, ac + heater since I am not installing them. For me it would be a strait shot under the dash. I don't think the little slot I would cut would weaken the body that much. Rain could be an issue but without a top for the car I don't plan on driving in the rain. I could always make it so the opening was a few mm off the surface so rain couldn't flow right in.
when routing from the brake ducts, where do you route the tubes. Is there room to route them over the radiator frame or do you have to route it through the suspension. Where in the body do you have to cut to get the tubes inside the passenger compartment? Maybe once my car has the body one it will be more obvious.
mark
when routing from the brake ducts, where do you route the tubes. Is there room to route them over the radiator frame or do you have to route it through the suspension. Where in the body do you have to cut to get the tubes inside the passenger compartment? Maybe once my car has the body one it will be more obvious.
mark
davefiddes
I am going to route the pipe through the bulkhead somewhere near the washer bottle etc just as you have mentioned but the other end will not go to the brake duct holes in the front of the body. I think the best place will be into the side of the rad scoop. Because of the size of the scoop in the front of the bonnet the pressure should be fairly high.
Steve
I am going to route the pipe through the bulkhead somewhere near the washer bottle etc just as you have mentioned but the other end will not go to the brake duct holes in the front of the body. I think the best place will be into the side of the rad scoop. Because of the size of the scoop in the front of the bonnet the pressure should be fairly high.
Steve
My GTR A/C not yet charged. I put a short 2 1/2" duct to the front bulk head to get some fresh air in as I don't have the heli vents fitted. Air coming from above battery. Still getting uncomfortably hot in cockpit even on my short (20 mile) trip to SVA station, so I think the suggestion of taking the fresh air from the brake duct is way to go and I intend to try this. Will get my A/C up and running ASAP, and probably invest in the heli vents as well. (I did have a pair but lost them during a garage clear out!).
when I first drove my GTR the front glass was not in place, I guess I shouldn't have been surprised by the huge amount of hot air from the rad that was hitting my face.
wouldn't a scoop in front of the windsheild bring in hot air from the rad exit?
watch the video of the Ultima in the wind tunnel for a good demo of this
wouldn't a scoop in front of the windsheild bring in hot air from the rad exit?
watch the video of the Ultima in the wind tunnel for a good demo of this
Just drove the CanAm home from the shop (21 miles) with the small windscreen on for the first time.
Observations:
1.Doubt if I could race with the windscreen because of distortions at the top, however can get used to it on the road.
2. Air was MUCH cooler at my shoulders. By putting my hand as close to the air intake as I could, there was a little warm air, but not like before.
3. Engine seemed to run much better. Was doing 75 in a 55 mph zone and didn't realize it. This is my air intake setup. The cooler air might be making the difference.
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing4/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-675983.html
4. However, there is a LOT of heat coming in over the frame in the footwell area. Wasn't until I could remove the heat overhead that a good idea of the heat in the footwell could be determined. I would at this time recommend that this would be a good place to start making a correction. It's obvious that it's hot air coming from the radiator that's not being collected by the vent.
5. Getting back to the engine compartment heat, as I was backing the car out of my garage this morning, and with the engine being cold when I started it, I could feel heat coming from the air intake. Since the engine had only been running about 20 seconds, it became obvious that the heat was coming from the headers, and this might be an area to investigate to lower engine compartment temps, such as strategically placed air scoops.
6. As for driving with the small windscreen, aside from the distortion, (which was the worst when looking at the front right fender (wing)from a LHD seating position),it was quite good since you're looking over the plexiglass when viewing straight ahead. I had glasses on, and a baseball (sort of a combination of rounders and cricket) cap pulled low. Not sure if I needed the glasses, and there did not appear to be any air that tried to lift my hat off. I'm 5'11", and was slightly crouched in the seat, but very comfortable.
7. While I had the inspection panels off to work on the windscreen, I spent a few seconds investigating the area around the side turn indicators. As I suggested to Mark Koch, I think this would be a good area for a naca duct, or a little airscoop door that could be opened similar to what was on my XK140 and XK150. It might mean re-locating the light, but I think this will work well and shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
TTFN
Jack
>> Edited by USCANAM on Wednesday 23 July 23:25
Observations:
1.Doubt if I could race with the windscreen because of distortions at the top, however can get used to it on the road.
2. Air was MUCH cooler at my shoulders. By putting my hand as close to the air intake as I could, there was a little warm air, but not like before.
3. Engine seemed to run much better. Was doing 75 in a 55 mph zone and didn't realize it. This is my air intake setup. The cooler air might be making the difference.
http://home.comcast.net/~rosenracing4/wsb/html/view.cgi-photo.html--SiteID-675983.html
4. However, there is a LOT of heat coming in over the frame in the footwell area. Wasn't until I could remove the heat overhead that a good idea of the heat in the footwell could be determined. I would at this time recommend that this would be a good place to start making a correction. It's obvious that it's hot air coming from the radiator that's not being collected by the vent.
5. Getting back to the engine compartment heat, as I was backing the car out of my garage this morning, and with the engine being cold when I started it, I could feel heat coming from the air intake. Since the engine had only been running about 20 seconds, it became obvious that the heat was coming from the headers, and this might be an area to investigate to lower engine compartment temps, such as strategically placed air scoops.
6. As for driving with the small windscreen, aside from the distortion, (which was the worst when looking at the front right fender (wing)from a LHD seating position),it was quite good since you're looking over the plexiglass when viewing straight ahead. I had glasses on, and a baseball (sort of a combination of rounders and cricket) cap pulled low. Not sure if I needed the glasses, and there did not appear to be any air that tried to lift my hat off. I'm 5'11", and was slightly crouched in the seat, but very comfortable.
7. While I had the inspection panels off to work on the windscreen, I spent a few seconds investigating the area around the side turn indicators. As I suggested to Mark Koch, I think this would be a good area for a naca duct, or a little airscoop door that could be opened similar to what was on my XK140 and XK150. It might mean re-locating the light, but I think this will work well and shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
TTFN
Jack
>> Edited by USCANAM on Wednesday 23 July 23:25
USCANAM said:
As I suggested to Mark Koch, I think this would be a good area for a naca duct, or a little airscoop door that could be opened similar to what was on my XK140 and XK150. It might mean re-locating the light, but I think this will work well and shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
I would much rather use the existing brake duct front fender opening than introduce NACA duct in the flank. At least the theory of introducing air into the footwell can be tested without any body changes. Any NACA duct will always look like an afterthought.
Given the size of the brake duct opening, I would guess that the brakes could be fed from half the opening and the other half to the footwell. Plenty of space inside the wheelarch to get the ducting into the footwell even for a simple test.
USCANAM said:
As I suggested to Mark Koch, I think this would be a good area for a naca duct, or a little airscoop door that could be opened similar to what was on my XK140 and XK150. It might mean re-locating the light, but I think this will work well and shouldn't be too difficult to accomplish.
I would much rather use the existing brake duct front fender opening than introduce NACA duct in the flank. At least the theory of introducing air into the footwell can be tested without any body changes. Any NACA duct will always look like an afterthought.
Given the size of the brake duct opening, I would guess that the brakes could be fed from half the opening and the other half to the footwell. Plenty of space inside the wheelarch to get the ducting into the footwell even for a simple test.
Somebody asked me about that problem. This is the way I solved it on my GTR
http://personales.jet.es/jmarino/page12.html
Regards,
http://personales.jet.es/jmarino/page12.html
Regards,
srreck said:
Somebody asked me about that problem. This is the way I solved it on my GTR
http://personales.jet.es/jmarino/page12.html
Regards,
Perfect as far as I can see. Easy routing of the duct. Just what I had envisaged. Like the rubber seal on the duct entry through into the cockpit. Where did that come from?
Ask to your nearest Honda dealer. I found them from an Honda Accord´s front fog lights.
pashby said:
Somebody asked me about that problem. This is the way I solved it on my GTR
http://personales.jet.es/jmarino/page12.html
Regards,
Perfect as far as I can see. Easy routing of the duct. Just what I had envisaged. Like the rubber seal on the duct entry through into the cockpit. Where did that come from?
I think it was from 1995 model. If you finally go ahead with this solution I can find the part# for you.
Dash air vents are from Alfa Romeo 155.
Cheers
Dash air vents are from Alfa Romeo 155.
Cheers
mkoch1 said:
That is a great solution. 2 questions, what year honda accord did they come from? Where did you get the interior vents? Are those the vents the factory sells, if so how much are they? Any chance I could find them locally in the US.
mark
k wright said:
Part of the duct work that you need is already on your car. The front body work is reinforced with a fiberglass frame that could carry air fron the front of the car to the cabin if it were extended.
Why bother? The ducted solution from srreck looks so simple! And the cross sectional area would be smaller than a 3 inch flexible duct.
k wright said:
The reason that I thought about it was that it is already there and available for use. In addition it is out of the way and durable.
For the cost involved in mod-ing it, you could have a pukka moulding made to replace any flexible trunking - that's what I plan to do if time permits. Can incorporate brake duct feeds as well.
Made a rubber gasket that fits around the steering wheel shaft where it goes through the aluminum panel, and glued it to the panel in order to seal up the opening.
Seems to have made a big improvement on reducing some of the hot air coming in and over the frame in the cockpit. Thought about the opening when Andy mentioned he got a lot of water coming in through the opening once.
Been discussing the external vent pickup with some of my racing car builders, and so far the general consensus is while the brake duct is convenient to use as a pickup, it's also the dirtiest place to pick up air in regards to dirt and exhaust fumes.
Higher would be better.
Just a few more thoughts on the problem.
Jack
Seems to have made a big improvement on reducing some of the hot air coming in and over the frame in the cockpit. Thought about the opening when Andy mentioned he got a lot of water coming in through the opening once.
Been discussing the external vent pickup with some of my racing car builders, and so far the general consensus is while the brake duct is convenient to use as a pickup, it's also the dirtiest place to pick up air in regards to dirt and exhaust fumes.
Higher would be better.
Just a few more thoughts on the problem.
Jack
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