Clutch pilot bearing question

[BobM]

My shiny new toy arrived from Illinois today so I started getting the bits and pieces stuck on it this evening

Fitting the clutch pilot needle roller into the end of the crank and have 2 problems. Firstly it's tight and I can't get it in. Thought I'd seek advice before resorting to violence

Also not sure which way round it's supposed to go - the needle roller isn't symmetrical, the needles are almost flush at one end but not at the other, where it also pokes out of the ally a bit. I presume it does matter which way it goes?

[gtrclive]

The ally bearing carrier is an interferrance fitt on purpose, just use a large socket and short extension to hammer it in.

The bearing has a seal in it at one end. The seal has to be at the gearbox side, as to hold in the bearing Grease that you put in after fitting the ally block.
As you say I think the seal is in the end that sticks out of the ally a bit.
Just to make sure, measure the offsets for the gearbox input shaft and crank so you don't push the bearing in to far. It may be OK just to push the Ally block in all the way, but It wouldn't hert to check.

Hope that helps.

Clive

>> Edited by gtrclive on Tuesday 30th September 11:00

[davefiddes]

The end of the pilot bearing where the rollers don't touch the casing has a rubber(ish) oil seal. This should go on the clutch side of things.

I found that after cleaning the inside of the crankshaft it was still tight...and resorted to gently tapping the ali holder for the pilot bearing (with a bit of wood)to make it fit the crank. You have to be careful to keep it even all the way round just like the flywheel otherwise it'll end up a funny shape. I was also concerned about the pilot bearing projecting a bit from the back of the ali holder but as I tapped it in I discovered that it touches part of the pilot bearing holder on the chevy crank such that it projects a few mm. When it mates with the gearbox everything is in the correct place...honest.

[BobM]

Cheers guys, that's helpful. It seems I don't have a pilot bearing carrier in my crank, just a gaping hole which looks like it's waiting to swallow up the needle roller if it were to get pushed in while fitting the gearbox Guess I'd better wait till I get one before going any further. Also need adapter for water temp sender, brackets for ignition coil and throttle cable, bolts for engine mounts (and whatever else I'll come across that I need)

Also not sure where to take the permanent +12v for the MSD ignition unit from - I presume the switched 12v can just come from the wires intended for the coil.

[mkoch1]

To get mine into the LS1 crank I put the bearing in the freezer for a while, then heated the crank a little with a torch. Bearing went right in.

mark

[davefiddes]

BobM said:

Also need adapter for water temp sender, brackets for ignition coil and throttle cable, bolts for engine mounts (and whatever else I'll come across that I need)

I know the feeling... A never ending list of £5-but-abolutely-vital parts... I got an adapter bush for the water temp sender. After I'd bought it I discover that VDO actually make the temp senders in loads of different sizes and that they do one in 1/2" NPTF that fitted my head (as it were ). Probably worth giving Ultima a ring and asking if they'd do a swap as it seems that different heads have different water temp holes.

Ignition coil bracket mounting plate is a 15min job even for me AS should have provided the clamp that holds the coil you've just got to build a plate to hold it onto the adapter plate.

Throttle cable mounts are a royal pain in the butt. I couldn't find an off the shelf ready built item at all in the UK...if you can believe it! Made my own in the end which seems to work OK.

The engine mounting bolts are M12 high tensile bolts.

Have to say the interface between the Ultima kit and the American Speed engine could perhaps be a bit better...

BobM said:

Also not sure where to take the permanent +12v for the MSD ignition unit from - I presume the switched 12v can just come from the wires intended for the coil.

You'll need the permanent unfused live wire you routed through the sidepod for the MSD ignition box. Make sure it's a pretty stout wire as the box draws quite a bit of current. Don't be tempted to pick up from the alt or starter as the junk from when they operate will probably cook your ignition box. There's a bit of splicing and rerouting required to hook the Ultima loom (which is setup for points) to fit it to the MSD way of doing things. It's not too complicated to figure out though. Just say if you need a hand.

>> Edited by davefiddes on Tuesday 30th September 17:09

[BobM]

davefiddes said:

I know the feeling... A never ending list of £5-but-abolutely-vital parts...

And it's not the £5 that's the problem, it's the delays and messing about. I feel stupid keep ringing the factory!

davefiddes said:

Ignition coil bracket mounting plate is a 15min job even for me AS should have provided the clamp that holds the coil you've just got to build a plate to hold it onto the adapter plate.

I don't mind fabricating things, for me the main problem is finding the materials, I don't have ally plate lying around. It just seems these are the kind of things that are the attention to detail I was led to expect.

davefiddes said:

Throttle cable mounts are a royal pain in the butt.

Spoke to Andy at the factory and he's sending me one. And the bracket for the ignition coil (mine's a squarish one rather than the cylindrical ones). Had to ring Real Steel for the Chevy bush. Also I'll reorder another aircon belt as the size they told me doesn't fit.

davefiddes said:

You'll need the permanent unfused live wire you routed through the sidepod for the MSD ignition box.

What makes you think I put one in there? ;-) Good job I've been reading the messages on here!

davefiddes said:

Don't be tempted to pick up from the alt or starter as the junk from when they operate will probably cook your ignition box.

Andy suggested either (alternator or starter) would do but recommended alternator.
Edited to add the MSD manual with the ignition unit suggests the starter for the permanent live.

>> Edited by BobM on Tuesday 30th September 21:18

[james]

BobM said:

I don't mind fabricating things, for me the main problem is finding the materials, I don't have ally plate lying around. It just seems these are the kind of things that are the attention to detail I was led to expect.

Don't worry. By the time you've finished, you'll have all sorts of bits of ally and steel plate lying arounf in your workshop. All ready for the next car you build

[BobM]

james said:

Don't worry. By the time you've finished, you'll have all sorts of bits of ally and steel plate lying arounf in your workshop.

I've got a few scraps of the thin ally sheet, but none of the more substantial stuff for brackets etc.

james said:

All ready for the next car you build

Ssshhhhh! You never know who might be reading. Mind you, I'll need to justify buying that rivnut tool yesterday

[davefiddes]

BobM said:

Andy suggested either (alternator or starter) would do but recommended alternator. Edited to add the MSD manual with the ignition unit suggests the starter for the permanent live.

Both of those devices produce a lot of high frequency, high engery interference when they are operating, particularly the alternator. On the Ultima the alt is tied closely to the starter cable so there is little to choose between them. The protection circuits used in sensitive electronics like the MSD box, EFI ECU, etc are capable of handling a certain number of high energy events before they pack up. If you put them on a separate circuit with a decent length of cable and a battery to absorb the worst of any energy bursts then you're giving the electronics a chance...they may even survive something horrible like an alternator dying. This is the thinking behind the info and advice in the MSD manual.

[BobM]

Thanks again for the reply Dave, appreciate your input. I'd presumed the alternator would produce more 'noise' etc. than the starter motor, and that it was potentially more of a problem because it would continue to run whereas the starter only runs briefly.

Interested in your point about the alt being closely tied to the starter - I hadn't thought that was the case. IIRC the big starter cable just runs directly from the battery +ve to the starter, and I wondered therefore if it might be safe enough connecting to the starter cable. I do have a length of heavyish cable run down the passenger sidepod, but it isn't connected to anything at the front and clearly connecting the MSD box to the starter cable would be much easier.

To give credit to the factory the bracket for the coil and the throttle cable link bits arrived this morning - the throttle cable bits look like a good solution. Small bracket with a little rose joint to get it lined up nicely and a spring to beef up the throttle return.

[davefiddes]

BobM said:

Interested in your point about the alt being closely tied to the starter - I hadn't thought that was the case.

It surprised me too when I first discovered it. The thick brown wire from the alt output is the same one that appears next to the starter solenoid connector. The wire doesn't go into the loom and down the sidepod as I originally thought. It's quite a neat way of getting a high current/low resistance path from the alt to the battery.

[BobM]

mkoch1 said:

To get mine into the LS1 crank I put the bearing in the freezer for a while, then heated the crank a little with a torch. Bearing went right in.

Thanks for this tip Mark. Even doing this it was still quite hard work!