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Dizeee

Original Poster:

12,923 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
I have to share this. It flies in the face of all I believe in terms of sound and experience of the brand. I am an avid Bose fan and enjoy a wide range of their hardware.

I only stumbled across this by mistake - but, it is a damning attack. The problem is it reads so well that to those in the electronics know how, it may be believable. And it keeps cropping up - so how true is it?

I know a fair bit about speakers, I have been an audiophile, as the link states, since the late 90's - most of which include Paradigm hardware as stated in the piece. (For those who have not had the pleasure - simply biblical). That said I am no scientist and so I am keen to hear others views.

http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html


Captain Cadillac

2,926 posts

72 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Better Off Somewhere Else

I've always been of the opinion that Bose is a triumph of marketing over sound quality. I'm right.

Bose sucks.

carreauchompeur

12,758 posts

89 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Interesting article.

WhereamI

6,887 posts

102 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Two things matter - function and form. The Bose speakers I used sit out of sight but still produce an excellent sound. I don't care what they are made out of, I don't care if theoretically they are the wrong size, I don't care if someone else doesn't like the sound, they do what I need them to and do it well.

Equally my Bose headphones are essential on long haul flights, they are great - maybe someone else does something better but if they do I haven't met them yet.

TonyRPH

6,308 posts

53 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
It's an interesting article but...

Article said:
First of all, 5.5-inch drivers are not designed to be used as bass drivers; they are commonly used as midrange drivers.
Technically, this point is invalid. There are many, many good 2 way speakers out there using 5.5" drivers for bass / midrange reproduction. The drivers are optimised for bass & midrange reproduction.

Article said:
....the Acoustimass's bass module responds to 46 Hz to 202 Hz at ±2.3 dB, while the satellites respond to 280 Hz to 13.3 KHz at ±10.5 dB. This is, by the way, the only speaker that I have ever seen tested with a ±10.5 db allowance. Still, this leaves a frequency gap between the satellites and bass module of about 80 Hz! That is 80 hertz of sound that is completely erased within the system's internal crossovers!
Well, the satellites have a ±10.5dB tolerance - yes this is indeed very wide, however they could still have some output (at the same level as the Acoustimass module) down to 202 Hz, even if the response if very uneven. This would not give the huge missing output that the author of the article claims.

Article said:
....and let us not forget that the Acoustimass system also ignores audible signal from 20Hz to 45Hz on the low end (deep bass)...
Most small 'bookshelf' type speakers have limited output below 50Hz, so this argument is void.

You need a "full range" speaker (usually a largish floor stander) to achieve output all the way down to 20Hz - and then you need a room large enough to take advantage of the low frequency output this speaker can provide.

Bose have always had an unorthodox approach to speaker design (see the 201 / 901 designs).
From an 'audiophile' point of view, their designs are a recipe for disaster, yet somehow they do seem to work for some people.

Back in the 70's & 80's, I think they did have one or two designs that were praised by HiFi reviewers.

By the way - I am *not* a Bose 'fanboy'!


Edited by TonyRPH on Friday 5th October 08:10

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kwak

210 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.

TonyRPH

6,308 posts

53 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Incidentally, this...

Article said:
....the Acoustimass's bass module responds to 46 Hz to 202 Hz at ±2.3 dB, while the satellites respond to 280 Hz to 13.3 KHz at ±10.5 dB. This is, by the way, the only speaker that I have ever seen tested with a ±10.5 db allowance.
Many audiophiles that use low powered valve amps actually use speakers with single drivers, some of which exhibit a similar frequency response to this - so this argument is pretty empty too.

There are in fact a pair of speakers (the name escapes me at the moment) that cost in the order of £6k and are quite well received by valve aficionados, but yet these speakers are technically flawed.

WhereamI

6,887 posts

102 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.

LordFlathead

8,652 posts

143 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
WhereamI said:
Two things matter - function and form. Those speakers I used sit ouroom. f sight but still produce an excellent sound. I don't care what they are made out of, I don't care if theoretically they are the wrong size, I don't care if someone else doesn't like the sound, they do what I need them to and do it well.

Equally my bose headphones are essential on long haul flights, they are great - maybe someone else does something better but if they do I haven't met them yet.


This. I have 3 rooms with Bose Acustimass installed and it cost me around £900 per room. I chose them because they produced a big sound from small enclosures which was accepted by the missus and did not dominate floor or room space. I also used to use Bose professional products in my pa rig and they took years of abuse both in terms of power handling and being thrown about. They earned their reputation with me.

When people mention the word audiophile it makes makes me laugh with visions of £2000 cables etc. Sorry but its consumer electronics at the end of the day at one level or another.

kwak

210 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.
I didn't mean that people that have BOSE stuff aren't happy with the performance of what they have, just that their objective performance isn't close to other gear at the same price.

WhereamI

6,887 posts

102 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.
I didn't mean that people that have BOSE stuff aren't happy with the performance of what they have, just that their objective performance isn't close to other gear at the same price.
I would still disagree, to my ears when I bought the BOSE speakers I have it was a no brainer - not only could I put them in the room without them dominating it, I also preferred the sound to the alternatives I listened to.

bennyboydurham

1,419 posts

59 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Fanboi here, sorry. Got the quiet comfort headphones which make long distance flights much more bearable, got an 11 year old Lifestyle 12 in the lounge which still brings movies to life and a pair of Companion 3s with the iMac that are grunty enough for iTunes listening and tinterweb stuff. Yes it's pricey and audiophiles detest it but in the round it does what it says it does and the tiny speaker thing is acceptable to her indoors. A pal of mine has a proper old school set up with Rotel amps and Mission speakers that are the size of a big filing cabinet. It sounds ace, but at the expense of it taking up half the living room and costing as much as a nice car. My missus would divorce me if I came home with a van full of that stuff!

kwak

210 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.
I didn't mean that people that have BOSE stuff aren't happy with the performance of what they have, just that their objective performance isn't close to other gear at the same price.
I would still disagree, to my ears when I bought the BOSE speakers I have it was a no brainer - not only could I put them in the room without them dominating it, I also preferred the sound to the alternatives I listened to.
You preferring the sound being a subjective performance. Nothing wrong with that, just the same way a lot of people prefer televisions with super saturated colours.. Just don't pretend it is an objective test.

marcosgt

7,533 posts

61 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Got Bose speakers in my car and it's the best audio I've ever had in a car.

Is it the world's best? Obviously not. Is it pretty good, yes smile

No reason to Buy Other Sound Equipment in my view.

M.

TonyRPH

6,308 posts

53 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
I think Bose in car stuff sounds good by virtue of DSP processing.

The sound is enhanced and tailored to the acoustics of the cabin.


WhereamI

6,887 posts

102 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.
I didn't mean that people that have BOSE stuff aren't happy with the performance of what they have, just that their objective performance isn't close to other gear at the same price.
I would still disagree, to my ears when I bought the BOSE speakers I have it was a no brainer - not only could I put them in the room without them dominating it, I also preferred the sound to the alternatives I listened to.
You preferring the sound being a subjective performance. Nothing wrong with that, just the same way a lot of people prefer televisions with super saturated colours.. Just don't pretend it is an objective test.
But the subjective test is everything - it is possible to do all sorts of objective tests but the only thing that matters is what it sounds like to the listener.

Dizeee

Original Poster:

12,923 posts

91 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
Well, I am surprised to find out how many apparent Bose haters there seem to be out there! I am not an exclusive fan of their stuff as I enjoy other brands too, but having bought my Companion 3 setup for my PC I am seriously impressed, and I mean seriously. Even at £250 I think the computer speakers represent great value for money, I have never heard such clear and accurate sound not to mention powerful from PC before, in fact I didn't think it possible.

The only reason I ended up buying them was that I was so impressed with their earler Companion 2 model I thought I would upgrade, and these Companion 3's literally blow me away. I have played all manner of stuff through them and they never fail to amaze, I would put them up against pretty much anything. They are the sort of speakers that make songs you don't like sound good, as the sound is so true and accurate. I remember thinking that over the first few weeks of having them, that it didn't matter what I was playing, it all sounded great.

I guess the only other contender for PC speakers for me were Harmon Kardon but I chose Bose over those purely on instinct, I never tested the HK models.

As for their other stuff, I have only listened to their demo stuff in stores, it sounds just as clean and powerful as I would expect, and I am not convinced that the testing area's are tailor made or rigged as the article suggests.


kwak

210 posts

37 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
WhereamI said:
kwak said:
The way I see it, BOSE is the alfa brera of the sound world. Deeply compromised in performance, but people still buy it because of the way it looks.
No, many people are very happy with the performance, certainly I am. OK, when I listen to a friend's new ProAc's I can tell the difference but at two grand and floor standing it's not a like for like comparison. In their price range IMHO they hold their own on performance but score on form.
I didn't mean that people that have BOSE stuff aren't happy with the performance of what they have, just that their objective performance isn't close to other gear at the same price.
I would still disagree, to my ears when I bought the BOSE speakers I have it was a no brainer - not only could I put them in the room without them dominating it, I also preferred the sound to the alternatives I listened to.
You preferring the sound being a subjective performance. Nothing wrong with that, just the same way a lot of people prefer televisions with super saturated colours.. Just don't pretend it is an objective test.
But the subjective test is everything - it is possible to do all sorts of objective tests but the only thing that matters is what it sounds like to the listener.
True, but subjective is very different between different people, some like their systems to be very accurate, some to be warmer or colder, some to be completely off the mark compared to what the sound is supposed to be like. Objective tests check to see if the speakers actually produce the sound that they are supposed to produce.

CraigVmax

12,218 posts

167 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
I did my 1st house completely in Bose, the lifestyle system with the minicube speakers and sub in every room. Worked well, everyone commented on how good it sounded and whilst you lost some depth it was a good overall system for music and home cinema.

Yes it was style over substance and it did look good. the sound I would say was very good in comparison to the everyday brands but clearly a lot more expensive.

having now moved to higher end kit yes I can appreciate there is a difference but I still think, for the right person in the right environment, Bose delivers what its meant to well, albeit at a price.

Chimune

1,377 posts

108 months

[news] 
Friday 5th October 2012 quote quote all
My Alfa 156 GTA had a Bose setup in it.
W
as not impressed:
The sub in parcel shelf just vibrated the grill cloth making a farting sound if you tried to turn the bass up a bit.
The tweeters built in to the doors with the lovely Bose logo on - empty. There were two way speakers lower down in the door instead.

Perhaps i should blame AR for these mistakes though....
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