More 'Audiophile' bullsh*t

[budgie smuggler]

TonyRPH said:

Well I guess you don't define "heavy load" so perhaps if you're using the absolute maximum network bandwidth then...

But just streaming audio alone well no...

Well I don't know TBH, it's just things like FooBar refreshing its file list, or copying a few files over. Like I said, I assume there are some poor quality components in the card which are causing interference somehow on the analogue outputs.

I didn't realise this would be a contentious point to be honest. I've heard it a lot of times on a lot of different PCs and laptops. Sometimes you get a similar effect from high CPU load as well.

A cursory google reveals a number of other people have made the same observation so it's (probably) not just my imagination
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/254681-ethe...

[bitchstewie]

I can sort of start to get it when people say they're doing things to stop electrical interference "spreading".

I say that as I'm sure PC's are electrically noisy environments.

Can't help but think there must be something a bit more low cost and grounded in science than a £400 "audiophile" soundcard though

[TonyRPH]

budgie smuggler said:

Well I don't know TBH, it's just things like FooBar refreshing its file list, or copying a few files over. Like I said, I assume there are some poor quality components in the card which are causing interference somehow on the analogue outputs.

I didn't realise this would be a contentious point to be honest. I've heard it a lot of times on a lot of different PCs and laptops. Sometimes you get a similar effect from high CPU load as well.

A cursory google reveals a number of other people have made the same observation so it's (probably) not just my imagination
https://community.spiceworks.com/topic/254681-ethe...

Any noise like you are getting is likely to be down to a couple of things:

Network throughput is being offloaded to the CPU (unlikely with an Intel card)
A poorly designed power supply.
Poor quality power supply filtering on the network card.
Ditto on the audio card.
+ others...

But...

A competently designed (and in good order) system shouldn't do this.

A high CPU load could make a difference but that's only likely in the event that you are using the same CPU to decode the audio stream and said CPU is under a very (very!) high load. (this depends on what format you are decoding, what software being used for the decoding and so on)

Take a Raspberry Pi for example - the LAN port shares the same bus as the USB ports, and the CPU isn't the most powerful thing on the planet either, and yet it can cope with quite high loads and throughput simultaneously.

I would suggest there is something else amiss in your system somewhere...

If it's Linux I would look at the output of "ifconfig |grep errors" or if windows "netstat -s |findstr Errors" and check for errors.

[TonyRPH]

bhstewie said:

I can sort of start to get it when people say they're doing things to stop electrical interference "spreading".

I say that as I'm sure PC's are electrically noisy environments.

Can't help but think there must be something a bit more low cost and grounded in science than a £400 "audiophile" soundcard though

You might want to read these three blog posts where the author pretty much proves beyond a doubt that high system load will not lead to a degradation of audio quality and system noise is largely irrelevant.

2002 Lynx L22 PCI audio card in a ~2008 Intel Q6600 Computer. (On "computers are noisy!" for audio)

Hunt for load induced jitter

Bit-Perfect Audiophile Music Players

[bitchstewie]

I've started reading a few articles on there and they're almost too thorough, I switch off

I think even if my terminology is way off, what I'm trying to say is that I don't go for all this stuff about "jitter" simply because data seems to move across the planet quickly on enterprise networks yet you need things like $400 audiophile soundcards and $200 audiophile switches (D-Link no less ).

I'm assuming if you put electrical "leakage" down any wire it can manifest itself, but that's an electrical/physics issue isn't it vs. making a difference to the data stream and things like "jitter" - told you my terminology is probably off

[budgie smuggler]

TonyRPH said:

Any noise like you are getting is likely to be down to a couple of things:

Network throughput is being offloaded to the CPU (unlikely with an Intel card)
A poorly designed power supply.
Poor quality power supply filtering on the network card.
Ditto on the audio card.
+ others...

But...

A competently designed (and in good order) system shouldn't do this.

A high CPU load could make a difference but that's only likely in the event that you are using the same CPU to decode the audio stream and said CPU is under a very (very!) high load. (this depends on what format you are decoding, what software being used for the decoding and so on)

Take a Raspberry Pi for example - the LAN port shares the same bus as the USB ports, and the CPU isn't the most powerful thing on the planet either, and yet it can cope with quite high loads and throughput simultaneously.

I would suggest there is something else amiss in your system somewhere...

If it's Linux I would look at the output of "ifconfig |grep errors" or if windows "netstat -s |findstr Errors" and check for errors.

No, there are no errors, it's not that the CPU can't cope, its not a network problem, it's not a digital problem at all, it's some kind of analogue type interference which manifests as a chirping noise on the analogue output of the soundcard.

You can hear something a bit like it on this video from 00:20 - 00:40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FWu_MrRQ28

Its nothing to do with cheap or poorly designed gear, it happens on my Macbook and my very expensive workstation at the office, yet not on my cheapo thinkpad. Anyway this is getting a bit off topic.

[brman]

budgie smuggler said:

TonyRPH said:

Any noise like you are getting is likely to be down to a couple of things:

Network throughput is being offloaded to the CPU (unlikely with an Intel card)
A poorly designed power supply.
Poor quality power supply filtering on the network card.
Ditto on the audio card.
+ others...

But...

A competently designed (and in good order) system shouldn't do this.

A high CPU load could make a difference but that's only likely in the event that you are using the same CPU to decode the audio stream and said CPU is under a very (very!) high load. (this depends on what format you are decoding, what software being used for the decoding and so on)

Take a Raspberry Pi for example - the LAN port shares the same bus as the USB ports, and the CPU isn't the most powerful thing on the planet either, and yet it can cope with quite high loads and throughput simultaneously.

I would suggest there is something else amiss in your system somewhere...

If it's Linux I would look at the output of "ifconfig |grep errors" or if windows "netstat -s |findstr Errors" and check for errors.

No, there are no errors, it's not that the CPU can't cope, its not a network problem, it's not a digital problem at all, it's some kind of analogue type interference which manifests as a chirping noise on the analogue output of the soundcard.

You can hear something a bit like it on this video from 00:20 - 00:40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FWu_MrRQ28

Its nothing to do with cheap or poorly designed gear, it happens on my Macbook and my very expensive workstation at the office, yet not on my cheapo thinkpad. Anyway this is getting a bit off topic.

Agreed, I think tonyrph missed what you were getting at when talking about digital errors. I think perhaps confused because you were talking about the network card loading?
As you say, it is very common for sound cards (particularly those built into the motherboard) to pick up power supply noise. My desktop does it (asus motherboard), my laptop (thinkpad) does it and my phone (LG G2) does it when the wifi is on. It can be called "poor design" if you like but in reality it is not that easy to run sensitive analog amplifiers etc from the same power DC rails that have a lot of high speed digital stuff. Even 50 pence microcontrollers have separate analog and digital supply pins to help reduce this problem.
Doesn't need magabucks spending to fix it though

[TonyRPH]

budgie smuggler said:

No, there are no errors, it's not that the CPU can't cope, its not a network problem, it's not a digital problem at all, it's some kind of analogue type interference which manifests as a chirping noise on the analogue output of the soundcard.

You can hear something a bit like it on this video from 00:20 - 00:40:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FWu_MrRQ28

Its nothing to do with cheap or poorly designed gear, it happens on my Macbook and my very expensive workstation at the office, yet not on my cheapo thinkpad. Anyway this is getting a bit off topic.

Ok I understand - as brman said - I had misunderstood.

I do remember something similar to this actually - a few years back (early 2000's) I remember I dare not move my mouse when encoding mp3's as it would make a 'zip' type sound on the resulting mp3.

As I don't use my laptop sound for critical listening I may not have noticed anything there - and my desktop PC has an Asus mobo with super low noise on board sound, and I also have an external DAC attached.

As for off topic - my thread so I can do that haha

[TheRainMaker]

Sounds like power to me, can't tell you how to fix it though

[Funk]

My external USB soundcard transmitted some faint background whine from the CPU/PSU. Used to drive me nuts. Then I realised that despite being an older board, it has optical digital out and the external soundcard has an optical in... Swapped to that and there's now absolute silence - bliss!

The other phenomenon I've run into from time to time was DPC latency which resulted in clicks/pops. Found out it was a duff network driver which was pushing the latency up. Again, easily solved once I knew what I was looking for!

[brman]

TheRainMaker said:

Sounds like power to me, can't tell you how to fix it though

this is how you fix it......

Funk said:

My external USB soundcard transmitted some faint background whine from the CPU/PSU. Used to drive me nuts. Then I realised that despite being an older board, it has optical digital out and the external soundcard has an optical in... Swapped to that and there's now absolute silence - bliss!

The other phenomenon I've run into from time to time was DPC latency which resulted in clicks/pops. Found out it was a duff network driver which was pushing the latency up. Again, easily solved once I knew what I was looking for!

A decent external soundcard or DAC with a separate power supply will isolate the analog from the digital noise. Of course we are then back to the discussion as to what is "decent" and how much you need to spend on power supply filtering

[Superleg48]

Heres Johnny said:

The colour of carpet determines the frequency of light absorbed and reflected, these are the 1291th harmonic of the sound you listen to and while above the audible range they clearly impact on the sound due tot he build up of pressure waves, only through a random and multicoloured colour spectrum in your carpet and preferably a variety of pile depth can you get uniformity. Turn the carpet round on your floor to hear the difference if you don't believe me.

I also find wearing blue makes my hifi sound better. And having a centre parting.

Interesting point there about listening to music whilst sporting a centre parting. As the sound waves eminate from the Ostrich Skin diaphragms of my speakers, your hair acts as a sort of sonic radiator. If you have a side parting, you get an imbalance in those radiated sound waves disrupting the uniformity of the time lapse pulses of sonic wonderment entering your ear canal (which incidentally need to be free of hair, to avoid further distortion of sonic radiation).

A centre parting will ensure equal dissemination of the radiated frequencies and a more pleasurable listening experience. If you have no hair, the issue is more dynamic as the hair creates a sonic cushion, that when the sound is radiated improves smoothness of the bass and mid range frequencies. Bald headed people will invariably experience a brighter sound.

[jmorgan]

Superleg48 said:

Bald headed people will invariably experience a brighter sound.

I need sunglasses then.

[Morningside]

Robbidoo said:

I've not read the thread but have you had this hilarity yet?

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2017/06/jcat-ann...

"No switch mode power supplies anywhere"

What apart from the one powering the computer?

[Tony Starks]

Have we had the Spatial Control Broom handles yet? http://www.shunmook.com/hifiproduct_4.html#4

[anonymous-user]

Tony Starks said:

Have we had the Spatial Control Broom handles yet? http://www.shunmook.com/hifiproduct_4.html#4

The 'Shun Mook Explained' page is fantastic:

"...there are so many things that science still do not know and cannot explain. Shun Mook is not black magic but very simple physics....For a male human the aura flows out of your left hand and flow towards your right hand, while for a female its the other way around "

"The human senses are far more superior then any sound measuring instruments."

[anonymous-user]

Spumfry said:

The 'Shun Mook Explained' page is fantastic:

I simply must have a dowsing pendulum!

[bitchstewie]

Excuse if I'm due a whoosh parrot but is that site real? Same with Peter Belt?

[Honk]

swiveleyedgit said:

I simply must have a dowsing pendulum!

...sadly unavailable in UK but you could import.

[Tony Starks]

bhstewie said:

Excuse if I'm due a whoosh parrot but is that site real? Same with Peter Belt?

As far as I can tell, i was watching a Youtube vid about a million dollar system and omni directional speakers and the guy pretty much had the whole back catalogue.

Edit: https://youtu.be/fr8O_jZhpl4 notice the carpet