Multi room sound system options

[sparkyhx]

If going Sonos as people have said you would need a sonos connect:amp for each pair/zone of speakers. Music could be anywhere - internet, NAS, PC, Phone, USB.

But 8*380 is expensive

I don't know of any systems that could cope with 8 zones (not cos they don't exist but cos I don't have the requisite knowledge).

cos you have gone wired ceiling speakers, at face value without knowing the alternatives it makes Sonos a very expensive option.

[paulrockliffe]

ASK1974 said:

paulrockliffe said:

You could connect your phone to a network share, though I've struggled to find an easy way of doing this as non of the mainstream players support it. I can make it work using ESFile Explorer, but it's not designed for music libraries.

Next option is to use a distribution amplifier and some switches like I've done, then the next step up is the Sonus stuff, which is mega money.

Paul I don't want to seem churlish mate but what you're describing would be a nightmare to setup and maintain. You clearly have a decent knowledge of computing and understand how these things can be put together but to suggest this is a good idea for others is nuts, I can't speak for the OP but everyone I meet wants a nice simple solution that just works and doesn't require a degree in electronics or computing to set up and manage, this is about as far from simple as you can possibly get. Creating a Frankenstein that's completely unsupported is a fast route to dispair, one must salute your intent to keep costs down but really?

And believe me Sonos isn't expensive. The Connect Amp is around the same price (with speakers) as a half decent Midi system just much, much better. There's a good reason Sonos are turning over $535m a year and it's not because they're expensive, compared to most of the competition they're actually pretty affordable.

I don't disagree entirely and I'm aware of the limitations. However, these sorts of threads all go the same way and no one puts forward the DIY solution, so all I've done is make the OP aware of the options. If the OP doesn't have the budget for Sonos then your recommendation seems to be that he just doesn't bother, when he may be perfectly capable of getting what he wants within budget.

I accept that XBMC can be difficult if you try to do certain things with it, but you can buy the RPi on eBay for £55, you plug it in turn it on, it asks you which of three version of XBMC you want, installs it, reboots and the setup is done. You just need to add music to that ( which can be as simple as connecting a USB hard drive) and install Yatse or similar on your controlling device. It's not the nightmare you imply. I'm assuming I'm talking to an intelligent audience and this should be within the capability of most people.

The suggestion for a bluetooth connection is even more straightforward and has the benefit that if you can use the app on your phone it'll work on the house system exactly the same. I've even solved the network access bit I was struggling with:

https://play.google.com/store/apps/details?id=com....

The hardware setup is less simple, but I learned it from scratch by asking questions. In reality it's just wires and switches and common sense. Once it's setup the hardware doesn't need any ongoing support and I'm sure you'll find XBMC is much better supported in terms of software development, new features etc than Sonos.

With sonos you're buying into the hardware and the software as a package, so in 10 years time when things have advanced the OP might be left with the choice of spending a load more money replacing everything to add whatever the next big thing is, whereas a RPi solution just requires the latest mini computer and a software download.

Your justification that it compares well with the price of other hi-fi kit is fair, but there's a whole audience out there that won't spend a grand on a set of speakers, hundreds on cables etc etc. I can't imagine what I'd be told if I tried to get sign-off from the financial controller for a 'proper' system, it's just not a priority.

I can't say I know anything about Sonos, but if I had to appraise their success I'd say that they do well because there isn't any competition. It should be relatively easy to build a box that you can plug your various speakers into, with a built in hard drive, WiFi, Bluetooth etc and suitable control over iPad etc for what, £300-500? Obviously for most people wired speakers isn't practical, so the wireless thing becomes a massive benefit and the market for an alternative becomes small.

Now, the next question is why doesn't that exist? I'd guess because people either are or aren't bothered, if you're not bothered you just put a cheap stereo in the room, or even move it around the house. If you are bothered you'll happily spend thousands on audio kit.

Anyway, like I say, I can see both sides of the coin and I'm just putting an alternative point of view.

[ASK1974]

sparkyhx said:

If going Sonos as people have said you would need a sonos connect:amp for each pair/zone of speakers. Music could be anywhere - internet, NAS, PC, Phone, USB.

But 8*380 is expensive

I don't know of any systems that could cope with 8 zones (not cos they don't exist but cos I don't have the requisite knowledge).

cos you have gone wired ceiling speakers, at face value without knowing the alternatives it makes Sonos a very expensive option.

Toxicnerve has it spot on but there are always alternatives. The challenge for any perspective buyer is understanding the payoff between ease of installation, the user interface, functionality and performance, all of which play an important part both operationally and against the budget. As Paul has been suggesting you can cobble together fairly cheap equipment, a network directory, some software and a smart phone and achieve 'music distribution' with some element of control - however this sort of solution is invariably only understood by the person who created it, has very limited user interface and may not meet everyone's expectations sonically.

The absolute key is user interface. For a half decent system you need to offer the same functionality and user interface offered by a typical music system but with kit located remotely from each room. So volume control, source selection and source control all need to be as simple as standing in front of a HiFi with a remote, anything less than this is a compromise that invariably makes using the system a PITA.

About the cheapest solution I can think of that meets these requirements (mostly) would be a collection of Airport express and (using this example) sixteen channels of amplification. I've struggled to find a 16ch power amp for less than a grand that sounds any good (most are a lot more) so I recon about £2k could do eight zones this way. Still a lot missing compared to Sonos and Airplay is not without it's issues but it's a fairly simple solution that, leveraging the multitude of music apps (TuneIN, Spotify, Music, iPlayer etc.), provides a considerable range of options and pretty good control. Personally for the same budget I'd buy five Connect Amps and work overtime until I could buy the rest but that's just me, I've seen too many shocking failures to faff about with systems that are difficult to use.

[sparkyhx]

[redacted]

[anonymous-user]

I may be missing something here but a Sonos Play 1 is £169. Surely that's good enough for most rooms?

Fair play to anyone who can do all the Raspberry Pi stuff though.

[paulrockliffe]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

No one is saying Sonos isn't the easiest option. Especially if you don't have the freedom to add cables yourself.

But you're suggesting a three grand system and justifying it by inflating the cost of the alternatives. You're not comparing apples with apples.

As I said earlier, each of my 'zones' cost next to nothing. An 8 way distribution system doesn't have to cost more than £100, I was lucky to get my 6 way one for £10 as a second hand item, but similar had sold for £50 new a few weeks earlier. You don't need extra amplifiers for your distribution as you switch the input to the amplifiers rather than switching between amplifiers.

The limitation with my system is that the control of where the sound goes is done manually. For me this isn't really an issue as I don't need to be able to move sound around rooms enough to need any more than a simple switching system. That said it's fairly inevitable that at some point there'll be an app-based switching system come to marker that I can then add to the system if I need to. There's already power switching available for the amplifiers off the shelf.

I've already explained how you do the user interface and network access stuff cheaply, but you've compared to Apple kit which doesn't do as much and costs £100 per input.

Who has a £400 audio system set aside for a guest to use by the way? My guests can simply add their room as a bluetooth device and listen to Spotify, TuneIn, iPlayer or their own music. Total cost of £60. They can also plug their phone in to the sockets in the skirting board if they don't have bluetooth, that system cost ££35 to install. There's no way I'd be spending £400 on something that barely gets used, especially as when people come to stay they tend not to sit in the spare room listening to the stereo.

With the Sonos solutions what happens if you decide you want the sound from the TV to come out of the speakers? Do you then need to buy another piece of kit to connect it up? is it a case of one bit of sonos kit per input device and how much do those connections cost? I have 16 input options setup, so I imagine that gets pricey to replicate in Sonos.

[paulrockliffe]

desolate said:

I may be missing something here but a Sonos Play 1 is £169. Surely that's good enough for most rooms?

Fair play to anyone who can do all the Raspberry Pi stuff though.

I think the initial discussion was around controlling ceiling speakers, the only kit sonos do that lets you do that is the connect amplifier.

I think most people would take that option and not go for the discrete ceiling speakers at an extra £230 a room. That no one has suggested that reinforces the point I made early on that the recommendations for hi-fi stuff always tends towards the most expensive option.

[anonymous-user]

paulrockliffe said:

I think the initial discussion was around controlling ceiling speakers, the only kit sonos do that lets you do that is the connect amplifier.

I think most people would take that option and not go for the discrete ceiling speakers at an extra £230 a room. That no one has suggested that reinforces the point I made early on that the recommendations for hi-fi stuff always tends towards the most expensive option.

I have just checked Amazon ceiling speakers at £30 a pair.

Quite a big saving per room, but at £169 a room I'd be tempted to add as I went along.

[paulrockliffe]

ASK1974 said:

has very limited user interface

The absolute key is user interface.

I think you've misunderstood the system I described if you think that the user interfaces aren't comparable.

The Yatse interface is no different to a standard interface you would use for selecting something to play on your phone. The cheaper bluetooth option *is* selecting something to play on your phone. It just comes out of your room speakers. The sonos controller is also an app on a mobile device, so I imagine it's broadly similar.

The system I have is done down to a price, no question, but you can quickly scale things by adding extras. For example, rather than the RPi complexity you could add the bluetooth dock then buy a cheap (or expensive) android tablet and add XBMC to that and use that as a wireless player/controller all in one. You get the better screen size for the controller for the price of Tesco's Hudl, less the cost of the RPi.

You could then add airplay to a RPi that you've glued behind your TV and instantly add video to the system. Imagine what a Sonos with video would set you back?

[paulrockliffe]

desolate said:

paulrockliffe said:

I think the initial discussion was around controlling ceiling speakers, the only kit sonos do that lets you do that is the connect amplifier.

I think most people would take that option and not go for the discrete ceiling speakers at an extra £230 a room. That no one has suggested that reinforces the point I made early on that the recommendations for hi-fi stuff always tends towards the most expensive option.

I have just checked Amazon ceiling speakers at £30 a pair.

Quite a big saving per room, but at £169 a room I'd be tempted to add as I went along.

Yeah I can see why you would do that. If you don't have the capacity to wire it's the option I'd probably take too. It's horses for courses, I'm just offering a different option.

[ASK1974]

paulrockliffe said:

But you're suggesting a three grand system and justifying it by inflating the cost of the alternatives. You're not comparing apples with apples.

paulrockliffe said:

The limitation with my system is that the control of where the sound goes is done manually

Ah ha! But neither are you. Sonos and other 'Multi-room systems' provide a complete solution for the control and playback of music, by your own admission your system is not a multi-room 'system', you would have to walk from room to room just to switch source. You're obviously comfortable with this and others may be as well, but from the perspective of someone looking for a 'system' I think it's fair to say this would be seen as a failing.

paulrockliffe said:

With sonos you're buying into the hardware and the software as a package, so in 10 years time when things have advanced the OP might be left with the choice of spending a load more money replacing everything to add whatever the next big thing is, whereas a RPi solution just requires the latest mini computer and a software download.

Ten years is a very long time but I concede the point. However I would counter this with the fact that buying from a big, stable, successful company with a brilliant support system is actually a very good idea. They won't disappear over night and if you have a problem, any problem, you can phone them almost 24/7 and get it sorted. I should also note that as Sonos interfaces with all main services and adds new ones as they come along, it'll take a pretty major shift in technology to render it redundant.

With a DIY project who on earth do you call when you lose audio? If you're not computer literate then you're stuck in a fairly horrible place. I've personally had Sonos since almost the day it launched and my original kit is still completely compatible with the latest updates and has not stopped working once.

paulrockliffe said:

With the Sonos solutions what happens if you decide you want the sound from the TV to come out of the speakers? Do you then need to buy another piece of kit to connect it up? is it a case of one bit of sonos kit per input device and how much do those connections cost? I have 16 input options setup, so I imagine that gets pricey to replicate in Sonos

You could then add airplay to a RPi that you've glued behind your TV and instantly add video to the system. Imagine what a Sonos with video would set you back?

Just wire the audio output from the TV back to the Sonos Zoneplayer for that zone and use the line-in facility. Easy. Also you can select the input from any Sonos Zoneplayer in any zone, so that's eight inputs that can be selected via the App from each room.

paulrockliffe said:

I think you've misunderstood the system I described if you think that the user interfaces aren't comparable.

The Yatse interface is no different to a standard interface you would use for selecting something to play on your phone. The cheaper bluetooth option *is* selecting something to play on your phone. It just comes out of your room speakers. The sonos controller is also an app on a mobile device, so I imagine it's broadly similar.

Yes, that's fair but when I talk about user experience it's the complete package not just the media interface, the manual switching you refer to is part of the user interface and this would be an issue.

paulrockliffe said:

I can't say I know anything about Sonos, but if I had to appraise their success I'd say that they do well because there isn't any competition

Just for fun you should take a peep it may give you some ideas for your system. I think you'll understand the attraction once you've had a play, maybe not enough to justify it's cost as you're resourceful enough but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. Also, there's an awful lot of competition in this market, what makes Sonos so attractive is the fact that it sits near the bottom price wise. For what it does it punches way, way above it's price point. The Play:1 shows what can be done for under £200 but that's off topic for the OPs requirements.

paulrockliffe said:

Who has a £400 audio system set aside for a guest to use by the way? My guests can simply add their room as a bluetooth device and listen to Spotify, TuneIn, iPlayer or their own music. Total cost of £60. They can also plug their phone in to the sockets in the skirting board if they don't have bluetooth, that system cost ££35 to install. There's no way I'd be spending £400 on something that barely gets used, especially as when people come to stay they tend not to sit in the spare room listening to the stereo.

Now that cuts to the heart of why forums are such great places to discuss these things. You've been resourceful, practical, creative and saved a bunch of cash at the same time. I on the other hand regularly sell £250k+ systems to some of the wealthiest people in the world who go bat st when the batteries in the remote are flat, I tend to overly concern myself with ease of operation and reliability. But when you say "who?" I could give you a long list, in fact almost everyone who lives in west London probably wouldn't lift an eyelid

We're suggesting solutions from two very different perspectives and hopefully others will gain insight from both useful to their personal projects.

As it happens I've a Raspberry Pie waiting for me as a little project, I want to have a play with a solution markedly similar to yours although all I'm interested in is the XBMC interface and how it works - a little play project for fun. Don't be surprised if I PM you for a little help

[paulrockliffe]

ASK1974 said:

paulrockliffe said:

But you're suggesting a three grand system and justifying it by inflating the cost of the alternatives. You're not comparing apples with apples.

paulrockliffe said:

The limitation with my system is that the control of where the sound goes is done manually

Ah ha! But neither are you. Sonos and other 'Multi-room systems' provide a complete solution for the control and playback of music, by your own admission your system is not a multi-room 'system', you would have to walk from room to room just to switch source. You're obviously comfortable with this and others may be as well, but from the perspective of someone looking for a 'system' I think it's fair to say this would be seen as a failing.

paulrockliffe said:

With sonos you're buying into the hardware and the software as a package, so in 10 years time when things have advanced the OP might be left with the choice of spending a load more money replacing everything to add whatever the next big thing is, whereas a RPi solution just requires the latest mini computer and a software download.

Ten years is a very long time but I concede the point. However I would counter this with the fact that buying from a big, stable, successful company with a brilliant support system is actually a very good idea. They won't disappear over night and if you have a problem, any problem, you can phone them almost 24/7 and get it sorted. I should also note that as Sonos interfaces with all main services and adds new ones as they come along, it'll take a pretty major shift in technology to render it redundant.

With a DIY project who on earth do you call when you lose audio? If you're not computer literate then you're stuck in a fairly horrible place. I've personally had Sonos since almost the day it launched and my original kit is still completely compatible with the latest updates and has not stopped working once.

paulrockliffe said:

With the Sonos solutions what happens if you decide you want the sound from the TV to come out of the speakers? Do you then need to buy another piece of kit to connect it up? is it a case of one bit of sonos kit per input device and how much do those connections cost? I have 16 input options setup, so I imagine that gets pricey to replicate in Sonos

You could then add airplay to a RPi that you've glued behind your TV and instantly add video to the system. Imagine what a Sonos with video would set you back?

Just wire the audio output from the TV back to the Sonos Zoneplayer for that zone and use the line-in facility. Easy. Also you can select the input from any Sonos Zoneplayer in any zone, so that's eight inputs that can be selected via the App from each room.

paulrockliffe said:

I think you've misunderstood the system I described if you think that the user interfaces aren't comparable.

The Yatse interface is no different to a standard interface you would use for selecting something to play on your phone. The cheaper bluetooth option *is* selecting something to play on your phone. It just comes out of your room speakers. The sonos controller is also an app on a mobile device, so I imagine it's broadly similar.

Yes, that's fair but when I talk about user experience it's the complete package not just the media interface, the manual switching you refer to is part of the user interface and this would be an issue.

paulrockliffe said:

I can't say I know anything about Sonos, but if I had to appraise their success I'd say that they do well because there isn't any competition

Just for fun you should take a peep it may give you some ideas for your system. I think you'll understand the attraction once you've had a play, maybe not enough to justify it's cost as you're resourceful enough but it would be interesting to hear your thoughts. Also, there's an awful lot of competition in this market, what makes Sonos so attractive is the fact that it sits near the bottom price wise. For what it does it punches way, way above it's price point. The Play:1 shows what can be done for under £200 but that's off topic for the OPs requirements.

paulrockliffe said:

Who has a £400 audio system set aside for a guest to use by the way? My guests can simply add their room as a bluetooth device and listen to Spotify, TuneIn, iPlayer or their own music. Total cost of £60. They can also plug their phone in to the sockets in the skirting board if they don't have bluetooth, that system cost ££35 to install. There's no way I'd be spending £400 on something that barely gets used, especially as when people come to stay they tend not to sit in the spare room listening to the stereo.

Now that cuts to the heart of why forums are such great places to discuss these things. You've been resourceful, practical, creative and saved a bunch of cash at the same time. I on the other hand regularly sell £250k+ systems to some of the wealthiest people in the world who go bat st when the batteries in the remote are flat, I tend to overly concern myself with ease of operation and reliability. But when you say "who?" I could give you a long list, in fact almost everyone who lives in west London probably wouldn't lift an eyelid

We're suggesting solutions from two very different perspectives and hopefully others will gain insight from both useful to their personal projects.

As it happens I've a Raspberry Pie waiting for me as a little project, I want to have a play with a solution markedly similar to yours although all I'm interested in is the XBMC interface and how it works - a little play project for fun. Don't be surprised if I PM you for a little help

Can't believe you've done that multi-quote thing, makes it a right pain for me to reply!

Obviously it's not possible to make an exact comparison as we're talking about different things. I think my point is that Sonos is locking you into their level of audio kit if you want their multi-room system. I'm sure they know what they're doing and it's pitched at the most profitable level, so no issues there. But your comparison assumes the buyer wants that level of audio kit, when they may want to pitch their system lower down the price bracket with cheaper amplifiers and speakers etc. A sonos box that just ran their switching and interface would be a great product, but would likely lose them money as it would inevitably reduce some of their customers spend with them.

The limitation with what I've done is largely as you describe and I'd agree that in a larger house or under different circumstances a better way of doing that would be very useful. As it is, I've got a switch panel in the dining room, which is the hub of the house due to our layout and when we're not doing renovations our use of the system will settle down such that the switches won't get used very much. I won't need to be able to move music around the house and the setup will be used far more using local sources. What I'll likely do is run the dining room from the distribution amplifier, so that sound can be quickly swapped around if necessary, but the kitchen will more often than not use the TV in there, same with bedrooms and a RPi for sound in the bathroom. I've done the landing too as there'll be a desk under the stairs to the loft eventually. If you leave a room set to local source, it's just a case of plugging your device in and turning it on, there's no need to mess around with that.

You're right that maintenance isn't straightforward, but then there's not much to go wrong. If we move it's an easy job to label all the wires etc as they all come back to a manifold, so wouldn't be a massive job to resetup with whatever new kit. a sonos or similar setup could easily be added straight to it. I'd guess that eventually there'll be *something* that adds that functionality at a more palatable cost to me and that'll go in, but until that happens I'm happy with my trade-off given the cost difference.

I'm not sure how I can really look at the sonos stuff without having access to a system to play with? I'd be interested to see if it passed the disinterested girlfriend test for ease of use. What I'd like to see is some way of managing the multi-room stuff without having to get the phone out and do more than tap one thing. So if you walk into a room, you press a button on the wall and 'your' sonos device switches to the room. Or you have a lock-screen widget that does the same thing somehow. Maybe you could achieve this with NFC tagging and some clever work with Tasker in Android.

I did work out what the wiring implications of local switching would be and decided not to bother due to the miles of cable the would be needed taking every source to every room and then some sort of 4-pole rotary selector switch which probably doesn't exist but if it did would be the size of a football.

I can see the benefit of what they do, I just don't think it's cost effective for me. I doubt I could afford it at the moment anyway even if I thought it was worth it. Wait, Sonos is the cheap option?!?!?

You're clearly selling to people a million miles away from me. I'd be embarrassed to be bothering anyone else over a flat battery! Good that you can make lots of money out of them though!

Feel free to contact me about your R Pi, though I won't claim to be that switched on and suspect you'll be fine setting it all up yourself. I've added them to the house, but not fully got them setup and running yet as I have more important things to do on the house at the moment.

The main thing that's missing from XBMC in terms of this sort of stuff is the ability to run multiple instances on one device or for XBMC to communicate with XBMC. If they found a way to link them together with slave and master devices you would instantly gain the ability to move sound around the house. I can do this in a sort of clunky way in that XBMC will take airplay type sources, so if I get a video on youtube it can be bounced to XBMC. XBMC will access youtube itself and play the video, there's scope to move it from one device to another, but only from airplay stuff and it often doesn't work, so fails the usability test. I know the linking of devices together is raised quite a bit on the forums and it's not there because it needs a fundamental rewrite of the underlying processes so it's not likely to happen soon, but perhaps an add-on that allows XBMC to record enough instantaneous source info and bounce it to another device might happen.

XBMC really comes into it's own when you use it as a video output device though, which is what it is really. The Pi struggles a bit to run the menus, as it's underpowered, but has no problems if you by pass the menu system completely by using another device as a controller.

[ASK1974]

Yes sorry about that, I got home late and you guys had raised so many points I just threw it all into one reply. Should apologise to the OP for all this but hopefully he's got some benefit from all the chit chat.

Picking up on two points you refer to above. One of the things I personally enjoy with Sonos is the queue, I often have a few mates over for a poker night and we can all sit there, nattering away each with our own iPhone, Android, iPad or what ever and add music to a pooled playlist. Whether it's sourced from Spotify, Napster or my library everyone can symlutaniously add music to a continuous playlist, it's really quite cool. No one person is in charge of music and anyone can dip in an add tunes as and when they want, really quite fun having several tastes mix a playlist you never quite know what's coming next.

The other thing is the zoning system, as each 'zone' is completely independant you can have up to 32 rooms playing different music or group rooms together in anyway you wish, even multiple groups if needed. I think the thing I enjoy most is Sonos exceeds almost every possible requirement for the modern family home and does so with a really simple interface.

EDIT

Expanding on the zoning. You don't need a switch or other means to select playback in each room as there's no matrix, each ZonePlayer controls a single zone and you simply select the room you're in via the App. Of course this is one of the things that adds to the cost, especially when using the Amp, but it's also one of the great advantages to the system.

Edited by ASK1974 on Thursday 3rd April 22:01

[CSJXX]

Haha thanks for the feedback. I just want a simply user interface, so will probably opt for Sonos.

Looks like I'll just have to start building the system up bit by bit with sonos gear and have it grow over time!

Any recommendations on where to get the Sonos kit from?

Next question is for HDMI distribution as I have cat 6 to all rooms but I'll start a new topic for that!

Thanks

[ASK1974]

For all my love of the product Sonos has a very poor dealer margin so you won't find it discounted very often. Vex sometimes does group deals and if you PM me I'll see what I can do but really you can get it anywhere.

Goingonholiday started a thread 'HDMI Distribution' that's been running in parallel to this one you may want to look at, probably very similar requirements to your own.

[mini me]

Well thanks to this thread I did a bit of research and then went out and spent loads of money on a Sonos system. All I can say is, its fantastic!

Its what I have been after for a long time but I guess I didnt know it existed until i read this thread and looked into it. I would put it in the same class as an iphone in that its very expensive for what it is, but worth it for the fact that it just works.

I do have some further questions though. I also got hold of a NAS hard drive so that my music is availabel without having to switch on our laptop. This is working fine having copied my entire itunes folder over to it, although i cannot see my playlists for some reason?

The question i have?

How can I easily ensure that any new music added to the itunes folder on my laptop is copied over to the nas drive automatically or without copy/pasting the whole folder again? for instance if I snyc new music purchased on my phone or import a cd on the laptop can i somehow have that automatically snyc'd to teh nas?

Ulitimately i want to run two identical itunes folders one on each hd without the hassle of copying and pasting new stuff onto one or the other all the time.

is this possible?

[ASK1974]

mini me said:

I do have some further questions though. I also got hold of a NAS hard drive so that my music is availabel without having to switch on our laptop. This is working fine having copied my entire itunes folder over to it, although i cannot see my playlists for some reason?

It sounds like you've copied the 'music' directory within iTunes, playlists are held in a file stored in the directory above so you need to copy (and sync) the whole iTunes folder.

mini me said:

How can I easily ensure that any new music added to the itunes folder on my laptop is copied over to the nas drive automatically or without copy/pasting the whole folder again? for instance if I snyc new music purchased on my phone or import a cd on the laptop can i somehow have that automatically snyc'd to teh nas?

Ulitimately i want to run two identical itunes folders one on each hd without the hassle of copying and pasting new stuff onto one or the other all the time.

is this possible?

Goodsync is your friend. This wonderful bit of software allows you to keep the NAS in sync with your iTunes folder and you can set it up to make it automatic, however you'll need to keep iTunes and Goodsync running 24/7 to make it fully auto

www.goodsync.com

[mini me]

Thanks mate I will take a look at the good sync software. As for the playlists I have actually copied the entire itunes folder. The library XML files are in there too which i understand contain the playlist info? Not sure on that one. Is there an import playlist function in sonos? As there is an option to select imported playlists but I don't seem to have any.

[ASK1974]

No, when you go to 'music library' you'll find 'imported playlists' and any iTunes Playlists should be listed there. They are added when you update the music library and there's no other means of adding as far as I'm aware.

[mini me]

Hmm that's odd then cos that's exactly what I've done and everything else is listed ok. I guess I can live without the playlists at the moment. Would be handy for the missus though as she uses them a lot. Maybe il put a post on the sonos support site.