How much have Hi-Fi separates moved on in 15 years?
Discussion
I've got a system that sounds great - a Yamaha Ax392 Amp and some black MDF covered B&W floorstanders.
The floor standers have suffered water damage to one box and look dreadful. I was considering replacing them with Dali Zensor 1's at about £200, but wondering would I get a much better sound by replacing the amp as well and going for higher quality speakers at say £1k for both or am I getting into the law of diminishing returns?
The floor standers have suffered water damage to one box and look dreadful. I was considering replacing them with Dali Zensor 1's at about £200, but wondering would I get a much better sound by replacing the amp as well and going for higher quality speakers at say £1k for both or am I getting into the law of diminishing returns?
Replace the speakers since they need it and then see how it all sounds?
If your not happy then consider changing whatever is your source before the amp.
But diminishing returns kicks in early and swiftly with hi-fi in my opinion.
Do you sit down and listen to music or just have stuff playing when you're getting on with other stuff? If the latter then I wouldn't worry too much.
If your not happy then consider changing whatever is your source before the amp.
But diminishing returns kicks in early and swiftly with hi-fi in my opinion.
Do you sit down and listen to music or just have stuff playing when you're getting on with other stuff? If the latter then I wouldn't worry too much.
The last big change in amplifier design occurred somewhere around the late 70's.
Essentially, most (silicon) analogue amplifier designs are based on similar circuit topology now - although there are some differences when you get to the esoteric stuff costing upwards of £5k.
Even many modern valve amplifiers use tried and tested topology from the 1950's.
Speaker design hasn't changed much either, and with computer based speaker design software, manufacturers can tailor ("voice" to user the terminology) the sound of the final product pretty accurately.
I think it's fair to say that there won't be a huge difference between a 15 year old and modern pair of B&W speakers in real terms (wear and tear excepted) - at the same level of course.
Looking back to speakers from the 1970's, one improvement has been that of power handling, the other being cone materials used, such as Kevlar and Carbon fibre for woofers.
Essentially, most (silicon) analogue amplifier designs are based on similar circuit topology now - although there are some differences when you get to the esoteric stuff costing upwards of £5k.
Even many modern valve amplifiers use tried and tested topology from the 1950's.
Speaker design hasn't changed much either, and with computer based speaker design software, manufacturers can tailor ("voice" to user the terminology) the sound of the final product pretty accurately.
I think it's fair to say that there won't be a huge difference between a 15 year old and modern pair of B&W speakers in real terms (wear and tear excepted) - at the same level of course.
Looking back to speakers from the 1970's, one improvement has been that of power handling, the other being cone materials used, such as Kevlar and Carbon fibre for woofers.
TonyRPH said:
The last big change in amplifier design occurred somewhere around the late 70's.
Essentially, most (silicon) analogue amplifier designs are based on similar circuit topology now - although there are some differences when you get to the esoteric stuff costing upwards of £5k.
Even many modern valve amplifiers use tried and tested topology from the 1950's.
Speaker design hasn't changed much either, and with computer based speaker design software, manufacturers can tailor ("voice" to user the terminology) the sound of the final product pretty accurately.
I think it's fair to say that there won't be a huge difference between a 15 year old and modern pair of B&W speakers in real terms (wear and tear excepted) - at the same level of course.
Looking back to speakers from the 1970's, one improvement has been that of power handling, the other being cone materials used, such as Kevlar and Carbon fibre for woofers.
Thank you very much everyone for your posts.Essentially, most (silicon) analogue amplifier designs are based on similar circuit topology now - although there are some differences when you get to the esoteric stuff costing upwards of £5k.
Even many modern valve amplifiers use tried and tested topology from the 1950's.
Speaker design hasn't changed much either, and with computer based speaker design software, manufacturers can tailor ("voice" to user the terminology) the sound of the final product pretty accurately.
I think it's fair to say that there won't be a huge difference between a 15 year old and modern pair of B&W speakers in real terms (wear and tear excepted) - at the same level of course.
Looking back to speakers from the 1970's, one improvement has been that of power handling, the other being cone materials used, such as Kevlar and Carbon fibre for woofers.
A few last questions if you don't mind please:
1. Above the few hundred pound mark does price make difference to an amp or speakers? I have a Yamaha AX392 amp - about £250 new in 1996. Would buying a £500 amp now likely make a noticeable difference?
2. Speakers. Is price going to make much difference - the below 3 catch my eye:
Dali Zensor 1 £200:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-spe...
Dali Zensor 5 £550
http://www.richersounds.com/product/floorstanders/...
Dali Zensor 7 £730
http://www.richersounds.com/product/floorstanders/...
Your Yamaha amp is pretty good, and assuming it's still in fine fettle will hold it's own against most modern amps up to around £400 - £500.
If you go for a stand mount speaker then you'll need to budget for a decent pair of stands.
Also - being used to floorstanders, you'll probably find a stand mount speaker to be lacking in the bass department, particularly when compared to older B&Ws which had a tendency to be a bit bass heavy. (I thinking DM603 / DM603 S3 - if that's what you have - you don't say!).
Try and get an audition of the Q Acoustics 2050i.
The Mission MX4 might suit your taste too.
If you prefer to choose by looks alone then look at Superfi
What are you using as your source? A CD player / mp3 player / computer / etc. ???
If you go for a stand mount speaker then you'll need to budget for a decent pair of stands.
Also - being used to floorstanders, you'll probably find a stand mount speaker to be lacking in the bass department, particularly when compared to older B&Ws which had a tendency to be a bit bass heavy. (I thinking DM603 / DM603 S3 - if that's what you have - you don't say!).
Try and get an audition of the Q Acoustics 2050i.
The Mission MX4 might suit your taste too.
If you prefer to choose by looks alone then look at Superfi
What are you using as your source? A CD player / mp3 player / computer / etc. ???
You'd get better results taking that budget and looking for lightly used replacements.
I understand most people prefer to buy new and like the idea of manufacturers warranties but assuming you could get gear at around a third of original rrp you'd be looking at £1500 amps and speakers from 2009/2010.
Stereo amp and speakers have not moved on from that period.
Just an alternative and, as an example, you'd likely get something like a Krell 300i integrated and Kef ref 1.2 inside your budget - I'd expect them to easily out-perform your current amp and speakers.
Good luck.
I understand most people prefer to buy new and like the idea of manufacturers warranties but assuming you could get gear at around a third of original rrp you'd be looking at £1500 amps and speakers from 2009/2010.
Stereo amp and speakers have not moved on from that period.
Just an alternative and, as an example, you'd likely get something like a Krell 300i integrated and Kef ref 1.2 inside your budget - I'd expect them to easily out-perform your current amp and speakers.
Good luck.
stargazer30 said:
Op if you like the B&W sound, the new new B&W 684s2 floor standers can be had for £700 new if you haggle or a discount. Very good speakers, or if you don't need floor standers the B&W 685s2s are about £450 ish.
I just bought the 684s and came from 685s1s, am very impressed.
Can you let me know where you managed to get the 684s for £700? Didn't think retailers would give that big a discount - seem to be £800 everywhere I look. I'd snap them up for that price. Cheers.I just bought the 684s and came from 685s1s, am very impressed.
Thanks again folks.
They're DM220s. I'm not set on B&W, in fact I know virtually nothing about HiFi but just love the sound I get from this although I have nothing else to compare it to. I enjoy listening to music a lot (mainly classical) so happy to pay more if I get a better sound.
Shock horror - I listen to a Sony mp3 player - soon to be upgraded to a higher quality built in FLAC player: :-O
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NWZE585-Walkman-Video...
The 2050i looks great - ideally I'd like something that fits on a very solid built in tv stand unit I've got - so like a bookshelf but 50cm deep. Would these sound comparable or am I likely to get a significantly better sound from larger floor standers like the 2050i:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-spe...
They're DM220s. I'm not set on B&W, in fact I know virtually nothing about HiFi but just love the sound I get from this although I have nothing else to compare it to. I enjoy listening to music a lot (mainly classical) so happy to pay more if I get a better sound.
Shock horror - I listen to a Sony mp3 player - soon to be upgraded to a higher quality built in FLAC player: :-O
http://www.amazon.co.uk/Sony-NWZE585-Walkman-Video...
The 2050i looks great - ideally I'd like something that fits on a very solid built in tv stand unit I've got - so like a bookshelf but 50cm deep. Would these sound comparable or am I likely to get a significantly better sound from larger floor standers like the 2050i:
http://www.richersounds.com/product/standmount-spe...
Edited by CIS121 on Thursday 17th July 15:41
I have a pair of Dali Zensor 1s and they're excellent, though I suspect they wouldn't fill a large room like they do my cottage living room.
However, I don't use them because I couldn't resist a pristine used pair of Spendor SA1s I got for about 40% of the new price. I'm a believer in speakers first (there's much more to choose between them, in my view - find the right speakers for your room and everything else follows) and there's always going to be a bit of expectation bias with a pair of £1395 speakers compared to a £200 pair
However, I don't use them because I couldn't resist a pristine used pair of Spendor SA1s I got for about 40% of the new price. I'm a believer in speakers first (there's much more to choose between them, in my view - find the right speakers for your room and everything else follows) and there's always going to be a bit of expectation bias with a pair of £1395 speakers compared to a £200 pair
For many low wattage valve amps 1 watt or less sounds the best.
Been around since the early 1900's.
Oddly enough - I find the more gubbins between the audio source and the speaker alters the sound.
Look inside any separate component and it is riddled with £0.01 resistors and £0.15 capacitors.
But it must sound good.. right?
Disclaimer: Dining room and Kitchen have Bose to keep wife happy. Living room has Onkyo.
For me: Low wattage valve amps with minimal components
Been around since the early 1900's.
Oddly enough - I find the more gubbins between the audio source and the speaker alters the sound.
Look inside any separate component and it is riddled with £0.01 resistors and £0.15 capacitors.
But it must sound good.. right?
Disclaimer: Dining room and Kitchen have Bose to keep wife happy. Living room has Onkyo.
For me: Low wattage valve amps with minimal components
mcbook said:
stargazer30 said:
Op if you like the B&W sound, the new new B&W 684s2 floor standers can be had for £700 new if you haggle or a discount. Very good speakers, or if you don't need floor standers the B&W 685s2s are about £450 ish.
I just bought the 684s and came from 685s1s, am very impressed.
Can you let me know where you managed to get the 684s for £700? Didn't think retailers would give that big a discount - seem to be £800 everywhere I look. I'd snap them up for that price. Cheers.I just bought the 684s and came from 685s1s, am very impressed.
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