Do you still believe in good hi-fi?
Discussion
I'm a big believer in good sound, that if you enjoy music, you’ll enjoy it more if it sounds great. I was raised on good hi-fi (and suspect many others on here were too) and we feel so strongly about it, we've written a "Hi-Fi Manifesto" that puts forth our views on what makes a good hi-fi system...
We toiled long and hard over this before finishing it. Do you agree with the points above? What would you edit/change?
We toiled long and hard over this before finishing it. Do you agree with the points above? What would you edit/change?
Would agree with most of that, interesting set of hifi commandments 
Wouldn't agree with point 5 though - there are some fantastic standmount speakers from the likes of PMC, ProAc, Harbeth, Focal, Sonus Faber to name a few that massively appeal to individual tastes for hifi delivery and in my opinion can be preferable to floorstanders.
Points 9 & 12 were my personal favourites though.
Wouldn't agree with point 5 though - there are some fantastic standmount speakers from the likes of PMC, ProAc, Harbeth, Focal, Sonus Faber to name a few that massively appeal to individual tastes for hifi delivery and in my opinion can be preferable to floorstanders. Points 9 & 12 were my personal favourites though.
1. Agreed
2. Agreed regarding active speakers but there are many exceptions to the 'separates are better' statement.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed 100%. By far the most influential component in the system.
5. Too many exceptions to agree. A good floorstander has the potential to offer better bass extension and sensitivity relative to a similarly priced standmount but they often don't. Big speakers often have some big problems that standmounts don't.
6. Agreed in analogue systems but not for asynchronous digital systems.
7. Cables do matter but not much; there would be no sound without them. Budget 3% max on accessories. ( 1% on cables, 2% on a rack ). i.e £10,000 CD system. £50.00 on interconnect, £50.00 on speaker cable and £200.00 on the rack.
8. Agreed regarding analogue but digital systems can be improved too ( Lyngdorf, DEQX, Dirac Research )
9. Agreed.
10. Agreed.
11. Agreed.
12. Agreed.
13. Agreed with Alock's post about the room being a critical factor. The room, the speaker, the speakers position relative to room boundaries and whether or not the listener is sat in the nearfield or farfield all have a far bigger influence on the final sound than any source, amp, cable or stand. Imho of course.
14. Poor / variable mains quality can seriously limit system performance. Imho again.
2. Agreed regarding active speakers but there are many exceptions to the 'separates are better' statement.
3. Agreed.
4. Agreed 100%. By far the most influential component in the system.
5. Too many exceptions to agree. A good floorstander has the potential to offer better bass extension and sensitivity relative to a similarly priced standmount but they often don't. Big speakers often have some big problems that standmounts don't.
6. Agreed in analogue systems but not for asynchronous digital systems.
7. Cables do matter but not much; there would be no sound without them. Budget 3% max on accessories. ( 1% on cables, 2% on a rack ). i.e £10,000 CD system. £50.00 on interconnect, £50.00 on speaker cable and £200.00 on the rack.
8. Agreed regarding analogue but digital systems can be improved too ( Lyngdorf, DEQX, Dirac Research )
9. Agreed.
10. Agreed.
11. Agreed.
12. Agreed.
13. Agreed with Alock's post about the room being a critical factor. The room, the speaker, the speakers position relative to room boundaries and whether or not the listener is sat in the nearfield or farfield all have a far bigger influence on the final sound than any source, amp, cable or stand. Imho of course.
14. Poor / variable mains quality can seriously limit system performance. Imho again.
Edited by Crackie on Wednesday 23 July 22:05
This is a tricky question for me...
I got my first separates when I was 16, Technics CD player, Yamaha cassette deck, Rotel Amp and inherited some Kef Coda 2 speakers. No remotes, no common look but much better sounds than my friends music system. As is tradition this hobby gets more and more expensive and ends up with Linn electronics and Monitor Audio floor standers. Sounds really good.
But then
Kids....
No time to listen to music as it deserves to be listened to
So I sold off the Linn and went down the Sonos route. Various Sonos now scattered around the house, including a Connect;Amp to the Monitor Audio speakers and all linked into Napster. Still buy CDs but only to rip good quality to NAS drive or for car. The sheer ease of use for all us makes for so much more music being listened to and enjoyed. On the rare, and I do mean rare occasion, I do think that the sound lacks a bit compared with what I had but quickly on to a new track or rediscovering an old track and enjoying the music again!!
I got my first separates when I was 16, Technics CD player, Yamaha cassette deck, Rotel Amp and inherited some Kef Coda 2 speakers. No remotes, no common look but much better sounds than my friends music system. As is tradition this hobby gets more and more expensive and ends up with Linn electronics and Monitor Audio floor standers. Sounds really good.
But then
Kids....
No time to listen to music as it deserves to be listened to
So I sold off the Linn and went down the Sonos route. Various Sonos now scattered around the house, including a Connect;Amp to the Monitor Audio speakers and all linked into Napster. Still buy CDs but only to rip good quality to NAS drive or for car. The sheer ease of use for all us makes for so much more music being listened to and enjoyed. On the rare, and I do mean rare occasion, I do think that the sound lacks a bit compared with what I had but quickly on to a new track or rediscovering an old track and enjoying the music again!!
Bradgate said:
If you can actually hear the difference, expensive kit is money well spent. If you can't really hear a noticeable difference, you're wasting your money.
I'd add something along these lines. Stereos are first and foremost for listening to music - spend money on the things that enhance that experience for you.
T1547 said:
Points 9 & 12 were my personal favourites though.
Agreed.Bradgate said:
That sounds like something written by the marketing department of a hi-fi dealer!
Also agreed, particularly give the company URL at the top of the document... 
alock said:
Its missing the most important part which is the room. A carpet in your lounge trumps a trendy wooden floor.
Agreed, up to a point. A trendy wooden floor can be bang on depending on the walls, ceiling and furnishings.... The crucial bit is the catch-all "room". I've heard very pricey hi-fi speakers be reduced to a blubbering mess in the wrong environment, and likewise other designs which cope remarkably well with odd rooms, PMC and ATC in particular (though obviously truly shine in the right one). Also floorstanders trumping standmount.... depends on the circumstance. To dismiss standmount is to ignore some extremely capable units from M&K/Neumann/PMC/ATC both in the mid and high range. In fact really you only have to look at the likes of PMC/ATC with their dual pro and hifi ranges to realise their upper hifi ranges are floorstanders whereas the technically superior pro ranges are stand or soffit mount. To date the best speakers I have ever heard and worked with are by far and away the PMC 4x10's which interestingly are a development of their own BB5s and MB2s which are.... stand mount. The BB5i and MB2i are of course available to home customers, so it's not just the pro world.
alock said:
Its missing the most important part which is the room. A carpet in your lounge trumps a trendy wooden floor.
Really good point that - we missed adding in anything about the effects of the room or room treatment - that's why we made it available online to edit though after all!Haha yeah, I think this is pretty spot-on, more or less.
Been a music lover since my early teens. Been in a load of different bands over the years too.
Back in 1997, I had managed to achieve a decent position in my company paying decent wages. I decided it was about time I bought myself a system to be proud of.
I went to a local audio dealer. Yes I could have wasted their time and then gone and bought the stuff online etc. etc. - but after they spent an entire afternoon with me sitting in their sound booth, bringing in different separates and speakers for me to listen to, I didn't have the heart, and besides, I wanted the aftersales back-up. Which, I might add, they still provide to me today, nearly 20 years later, because my spend helped to ensure their survival.
The chap who spent all that time with me that day is still working in the shop, and still recognises me when I occasionally visit. And when I do nothing is too much trouble. One of the things I really liked is that after buying all the gear, he insisted on coming round to my house that evening to deliver it all, unpack everything, and place and setup the system and then fiddle around with it until I was happy. Great service!
Problem for him is, however, that he sold me such decent gear at the time, that none of it has gone wrong, and I have never felt the need to upgrade, lol!
Anyway I bought Arcam Alpha separates - an Alpha 8 CD player, and two Alpha 8 amps, which provide a bi-wiring system supplying my KEF Q35 floor-standing speakers. With finally an Alpha radio source.
Having moved house a few times, this gear can be tuned by fiddling about with the bases for the speakers (sometimes into carpet via the spikes - sometimes having to sit on outdoor paving slabs etc.) but I've always managed to get a great result in any house.
I spent the requisite 10% on interconnects - Chord Cobra RCA's with silver OFC speaker cable. I've not tried anything different, I'll admit - but if longevity is a benchmark for the cables, then 17 years' of perfect service without a failure is possibly a good measure at least!
So yeah - I bought into 'good hifi' back then, and the total spend was in the region of £2,500. A drop in the ocean compared to what some spend....but for me, a considerable investment - but one which still brings me pleasure some 17 years later. So worth every penny for me.
Been a music lover since my early teens. Been in a load of different bands over the years too.
Back in 1997, I had managed to achieve a decent position in my company paying decent wages. I decided it was about time I bought myself a system to be proud of.
I went to a local audio dealer. Yes I could have wasted their time and then gone and bought the stuff online etc. etc. - but after they spent an entire afternoon with me sitting in their sound booth, bringing in different separates and speakers for me to listen to, I didn't have the heart, and besides, I wanted the aftersales back-up. Which, I might add, they still provide to me today, nearly 20 years later, because my spend helped to ensure their survival.
The chap who spent all that time with me that day is still working in the shop, and still recognises me when I occasionally visit. And when I do nothing is too much trouble. One of the things I really liked is that after buying all the gear, he insisted on coming round to my house that evening to deliver it all, unpack everything, and place and setup the system and then fiddle around with it until I was happy. Great service!
Problem for him is, however, that he sold me such decent gear at the time, that none of it has gone wrong, and I have never felt the need to upgrade, lol!
Anyway I bought Arcam Alpha separates - an Alpha 8 CD player, and two Alpha 8 amps, which provide a bi-wiring system supplying my KEF Q35 floor-standing speakers. With finally an Alpha radio source.
Having moved house a few times, this gear can be tuned by fiddling about with the bases for the speakers (sometimes into carpet via the spikes - sometimes having to sit on outdoor paving slabs etc.) but I've always managed to get a great result in any house.
I spent the requisite 10% on interconnects - Chord Cobra RCA's with silver OFC speaker cable. I've not tried anything different, I'll admit - but if longevity is a benchmark for the cables, then 17 years' of perfect service without a failure is possibly a good measure at least!
So yeah - I bought into 'good hifi' back then, and the total spend was in the region of £2,500. A drop in the ocean compared to what some spend....but for me, a considerable investment - but one which still brings me pleasure some 17 years later. So worth every penny for me.
Bradgate said:
That sounds like something written by the marketing department of a hi-fi dealer!
Not really - see point 10*Bradgate said:
If you can actually hear the difference, expensive kit is money well spent. If you can't really hear a noticeable difference, you're wasting your money.
- Agreed - again see point 10 - if you can't hear a difference there's no point and as we all hear things differently, its only worth it if you can hear the difference yourself. We can't argue with that :-)
Mouse1903 said:
I'm not a fan of iPod docks and sound bars, they just aren't the same quality as a proper stereo or separates set-up. I'd love an expensive separates set-up, but can't afford it, so I did the next best thing and bought vintage
Not the best pic:
Nice set-up that. Pioneer SA-7800 or SA-8800 if I'm not mistaken (even rarer than the SA-9800 now!)Not the best pic:
mikees said:
Dug out the old arcam and B&W set up to ebay today. It blows my Sonos into the weeds. Gonna keep it and use it (circa 300 CDs ) . Amazing that I forgot.
Glad the manifesto may have helped slightly in your desire to listen to the kit before eBaying it and keep it rather than sell it. If the manifesto can bring a bit more good sound to the world, then it'll do us proud!Ray Luxury-Yacht said:
Haha yeah, I think this is pretty spot-on, more or less.
Been a music lover since my early teens. Been in a load of different bands over the years too.
Back in 1997, I had managed to achieve a decent position in my company paying decent wages. I decided it was about time I bought myself a system to be proud of.
I went to a local audio dealer. Yes I could have wasted their time and then gone and bought the stuff online etc. etc. - but after they spent an entire afternoon with me sitting in their sound booth, bringing in different separates and speakers for me to listen to, I didn't have the heart, and besides, I wanted the aftersales back-up. Which, I might add, they still provide to me today, nearly 20 years later, because my spend helped to ensure their survival.
The chap who spent all that time with me that day is still working in the shop, and still recognises me when I occasionally visit. And when I do nothing is too much trouble. One of the things I really liked is that after buying all the gear, he insisted on coming round to my house that evening to deliver it all, unpack everything, and place and setup the system and then fiddle around with it until I was happy. Great service!
Problem for him is, however, that he sold me such decent gear at the time, that none of it has gone wrong, and I have never felt the need to upgrade, lol!
Anyway I bought Arcam Alpha separates - an Alpha 8 CD player, and two Alpha 8 amps, which provide a bi-wiring system supplying my KEF Q35 floor-standing speakers. With finally an Alpha radio source.
Having moved house a few times, this gear can be tuned by fiddling about with the bases for the speakers (sometimes into carpet via the spikes - sometimes having to sit on outdoor paving slabs etc.) but I've always managed to get a great result in any house.
I spent the requisite 10% on interconnects - Chord Cobra RCA's with silver OFC speaker cable. I've not tried anything different, I'll admit - but if longevity is a benchmark for the cables, then 17 years' of perfect service without a failure is possibly a good measure at least!
So yeah - I bought into 'good hifi' back then, and the total spend was in the region of £2,500. A drop in the ocean compared to what some spend....but for me, a considerable investment - but one which still brings me pleasure some 17 years later. So worth every penny for me.
No matter some people spend more, £2500 is still a good investment on a hi-fi and you can get a lot for that money. Nice story too, thanks for sharing!Been a music lover since my early teens. Been in a load of different bands over the years too.
Back in 1997, I had managed to achieve a decent position in my company paying decent wages. I decided it was about time I bought myself a system to be proud of.
I went to a local audio dealer. Yes I could have wasted their time and then gone and bought the stuff online etc. etc. - but after they spent an entire afternoon with me sitting in their sound booth, bringing in different separates and speakers for me to listen to, I didn't have the heart, and besides, I wanted the aftersales back-up. Which, I might add, they still provide to me today, nearly 20 years later, because my spend helped to ensure their survival.
The chap who spent all that time with me that day is still working in the shop, and still recognises me when I occasionally visit. And when I do nothing is too much trouble. One of the things I really liked is that after buying all the gear, he insisted on coming round to my house that evening to deliver it all, unpack everything, and place and setup the system and then fiddle around with it until I was happy. Great service!
Problem for him is, however, that he sold me such decent gear at the time, that none of it has gone wrong, and I have never felt the need to upgrade, lol!
Anyway I bought Arcam Alpha separates - an Alpha 8 CD player, and two Alpha 8 amps, which provide a bi-wiring system supplying my KEF Q35 floor-standing speakers. With finally an Alpha radio source.
Having moved house a few times, this gear can be tuned by fiddling about with the bases for the speakers (sometimes into carpet via the spikes - sometimes having to sit on outdoor paving slabs etc.) but I've always managed to get a great result in any house.
I spent the requisite 10% on interconnects - Chord Cobra RCA's with silver OFC speaker cable. I've not tried anything different, I'll admit - but if longevity is a benchmark for the cables, then 17 years' of perfect service without a failure is possibly a good measure at least!
So yeah - I bought into 'good hifi' back then, and the total spend was in the region of £2,500. A drop in the ocean compared to what some spend....but for me, a considerable investment - but one which still brings me pleasure some 17 years later. So worth every penny for me.
HiFi yes, recording quality nope.
Modern recordings are terrible clipped, compressed crap. There are exceptions but very few.
This is the reason HiFi has effectively died and everyone uses crappy MP3, the CD doesn't sound better any more. It's just as bad.
Try and get a recording from a local band straight from the desk at a gig not studio.
You will be staggered.
The victim of the Loudness War is us and the HiFi industry which the UK ruled the world in for a many, many years.
Modern recordings are terrible clipped, compressed crap. There are exceptions but very few.
This is the reason HiFi has effectively died and everyone uses crappy MP3, the CD doesn't sound better any more. It's just as bad.
Try and get a recording from a local band straight from the desk at a gig not studio.
You will be staggered.
The victim of the Loudness War is us and the HiFi industry which the UK ruled the world in for a many, many years.
The_Burg said:
HiFi yes, recording quality nope.
Modern recordings are terrible clipped, compressed crap. There are exceptions but very few.
This is the reason HiFi has effectively died and everyone uses crappy MP3, the CD doesn't sound better any more. It's just as bad.
Try and get a recording from a local band straight from the desk at a gig not studio.
You will be staggered.
The victim of the Loudness War is us and the HiFi industry which the UK ruled the world in for a many, many years.
With respect you can't generalise so much though and its not all doom and gloom with modern recordings - great quality recordings are out there if you know where to look. Some (a lot) of the music on Spotify sounds great, HDTracks and many other online sources exist for high res stuff and you'd be shocked if I told you how much vinyl we're selling now compared to over the last 5 years (more than ever).Modern recordings are terrible clipped, compressed crap. There are exceptions but very few.
This is the reason HiFi has effectively died and everyone uses crappy MP3, the CD doesn't sound better any more. It's just as bad.
Try and get a recording from a local band straight from the desk at a gig not studio.
You will be staggered.
The victim of the Loudness War is us and the HiFi industry which the UK ruled the world in for a many, many years.
We've seen a huge increase in interest in hi-fi in general over the last year from the "next generation of listeners" and while its certainly not an everyday thing in the way it was in the 1970s (nowadays thats the iPhone or the iPod, but what hasnt changed?) its interesting to see the next gen listeners discover hi-fi fresh. We wrote the manifesto to fuel more of these very conversations!
Don't forget point 11 though - if it sounds good it can't be bad.
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff