Looking at changing my Celestion A2s...but to what?

[Funk]

I've had my A2s for over a decade now and they continue to sound brilliant. However, I'm starting to fancy a change, I don't know why but I've just got a bee in my bonnet about it. It's been a long time since I looked at the speaker market so I thought i would turn to the font of all knowledge that is the PH forum.



I'll be honest, on a number of occasions I've considered just upgrading to the A3s which I'd hope would be more of the same but.....bigger. That said, my room is probably the limiting factor and I have a sneaking concern that the A3s need space to breathe along with something a little beefier in the amp department. Speaking of which, the source for this is my vast array of FLACs played in JRiver. This feeds into a Creative X-Fi HD 24/96 external soundcard which I appreciate probably isn't the height of audiophile nirvana but it's certainly impressive as an upgrade over the internal soundcard on the PC.

The amp is a Cyrus 8vs2 which I bought as a 'stop-gap' for about £700 when I sold my Naim and it's never left. It doesn't struggle to control the A2s which is the main thing. They're nominally a pretty easy ride - 91dB sensitivity and a 4 ohm load if memory serves, although I understand that it's better to have more power than not enough when it comes to amps. It puts out about 70w/ch into 8ohms and 110 into 4.

I don't think it'll be man enough for the A3s, so what other speaker options are there out there to consider when looking at used and a price point of around £500-1000ish? I'd like to buy something I can run whilst hanging onto my A2s just in case I realise I've made a horrendous mistake! I may shift the A2s on at a later date. I don't have to spend that much if there are some good options available for less, it's just that the A2s will still fetch around £400 and I could 'top up' if required.

Sound-wise I like a solid but not overpowering bass. I used to be a drummer so punchy but deep drums (especially kicks) and bass tickle my bits. I'd like a little more clarity in the midrange and treble, although my hearing may well be the ultimate limiting factor on this front as I know the hearing in my left ear is declining a little already. I listen to pretty much anything right through from solo acoustic guitars to funk (natch), blues, jazz, prog metal, rock, pop, classical - basically I'm looking for something that covers most of the bases rather than being particularly good at only a few. Whatever I go for next will have to have some serious weight so stand-mount speakers are definitely out.

Prior to purchasing the A2s I auditioned - and discounted - a lot of speakers so it may help with giving an idea of what I didn't go for at the time:

Naim Credos - as a Naim owner at the time, I listened to these when they were new. They were great with jazz and classical but didn't really know how to let rip and boogie with more bassy, harder stuff.

Kef Reference 2 - These were probably the only other speakers at the time that got close to pipping the Celestions. I recall them sounding great.

B&W 804 (I think!) - I really liked the B&Ws. They sounded pretty great on the end of the demo system in the shop's dem room but on the end of the Naim it wasn't quite so harmonious, they sounded too forward. I think it was the Naim/B&W combo rather than a flaw in either component. I'd certainly look at B&W again.

I'm aware that many of the above will sound very different on the end of the Cyrus rather than the Naim.

I do wonder if I'm setting off on something of a fool's errand..? The A2s were very underrated at the time and as I say, they don't do anything wrong at all. I think I just have an itch to scratch after having the same speakers for so long!

I've just been looking at a pair of Sonus Faber Toy Towers for £850, does anyone have any experience of them?

Over to you guys - any recommendations or 'must-hears'?

Edited by Funk on Wednesday 22 May 00:35

[gibbon]

Just out of curiosity where can you get the Sonus Faber Toy Towers for that price?

Many thanks.

[Funk]

If I told you that, I'd do myself out of a pair of Toy Towers....! They're lightly used, not new, probably not too hard to find if you look though..! I think they're about £1400 new?

[gibbon]

Funk said:

If I told you that, I'd do myself out of a pair of Toy Towers....! They're lightly used, not new, probably not too hard to find if you look though..! I think they're about £1400 new?

Ah yes, I know what you mean now.

Don't worry, im not about to buy them from under your nose.

[Funk]

Any experience of them at all?

[Crackie]

Three for the auditioning shortlist if buying new.......... All available from Richer for £1k.

Kef Q700
Q acoustics Concept 40
Cambridge Aeromax 6.

£500-£1000 budget on e-bay is likely to get you much better sound but auditioning before buying is an issue. Just had a quick look and found various impressive S/H bargains from PMC, Proac, B&W, ATC, Harbeth, Epos.

Hope you find something to suit you.

[legzr1]

Kef reference 3.2 are excellent and will offer a good upgrade to the A2's - sweeter treble, brilliant mid thanks to the UniQ driver and more heft than the smaller 2.2.

I owned a pair from new for years but sold them and moved to ML electrostatics (fantastic for acoustic and vocal stuff but couldn't compete with the Kefs with anything with bass).
I moved from the MLs to Celestion A3's - they're huge, heavy and fairly demanding of amplifiers - the 4ohm rating is nominal - they can drop below 3ohms in the bass so your amp might not be too happy.
The treble on the Celestions never sounded quite 'right' so I moved to Kef ref 4.2's and have been happy for 5 years now - got them for a bargain too.

I thoroughly recommend the Kef ref range - they're very, very good with all types of music going from light plinky jazz through female vocal all the way to thrash and dub step - haven't found anything to trip them up.

[Funk]

Looks like I may need to revisit KEF again then. I'll definitely be buying used, you get so much more for your money and if you don't like them, you shouldn't take a hit moving them on pretty quickly...

[telecat]

If a bigger sound is required then maybe look at the Tannoy Precision Series? They may need care over positioning or cables though. Even the DCT6 would be a good idea. I would also take a look at the Studio 5 JBL's with the caveat that they seem difficult to get hold of.

[Crackie]

Some potential choices for the shortlist.........

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/PMC-GB1i-Speakers-Preown...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Monitor-Audio-Silver-8-F...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/B-W-CDM9NT-Speakers-Imma...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Acoustic-Energy-AE3-Stan...

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Focal-Chorus-826-V-Floor...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/kef-reference-10...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/pmc-fb1-speakers...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/pmc-fb1-for-sale...

http://www.gumtree.com/p/speakers/neat-motive-1-fl...

[kenny.R400]

Hi Funk. I've recently sold a set of A2s and must say they are a very nice speaker, build quality is excellent too and not to be confused with the later F series that look similar. A real quality piece of kit that are so well built.
You'd have no problem selling them either, I put mine on Fleabay and they were fighting for them.

I got the A2's by default really as I was buying some Naim amplification and the guy wouldn't split the package, glad he never now as it was great to hear them and give them a whirl.

On to what you'd like better. The A2's were played back to back with my Naim Arivas and the Arivas did give a better rendition of what your after, ie a tighter all round feel with great clarity at the top end/treble...........the high hats and snares etc. is very impressive,these will be for sale if you're local and needed to try them, I bought them new in 2004.

I've now bought myself a set of the ubiquitous Naim SBLs, now these are simply exactly what you'd love, I know it. No false bass and so tight and fast it's incredible......top end is a dream, think of Linn Kans with a true bass.

Taking things a bit further I've also got a few smaller speakers I use on other systems which are sublime and crash the hi hats out whilst giving tight and realistic bass.

Royd Minstrels and Royd Eden spring to mind, they defy their size and you wonder how the cabinets are so petit.

The A2s are great but just try to get to listen to the Arivas or SBLs, as I say my offer of a brew and a "speaker kick" stands, I am just a mad collector/hoarder of these things

[StuH]

Hi Funk,

I think we've discussed our mutual love of the A series on here before. I'm a huge fan and since I started buying and selling s/h hifi on eBay i seem to be accumulating speakers at an alarming rate! Currently just with A's I have 2 sets of A3's, A2's and 2 sets of A1's. However like you I'm often keen to try something new, but most gear tends not to hang around too long. My opinion is that you should do what you suggest, get a pair of A3's as they give exactly what you describe, a 'bigger' A2 sound, same character but with huge bass slam and depth, which underpins the music, providing more 'air' in the midrange and treble. Just brilliant for what they cost s/h, relative to what you'd get new for that money. Caveat, would be that they need a lot of quality power amplification to give of their best.

Personally I think your Cyrus is a long way short of getting the best out of your A2's let alone A3's. They truly are reference level speakers, that most people just don't have knowledge of. The A2's will just keep getting better as you improve both amplification and front-end. The really respond to high-current, improving not just grip (as you'd expect) but also timing, imaging, and what I tend to describe as 'sparkle' - that lovely treble leading edge that give sound a realism but without becoming harsh, forward or bright. By way of example, I drive my A2's with a Meridian 557 (bargains to be found on fleabay- which produces 200w of effortless power), I originally used an Arcam Alpha 10/10p combo but the Merdian just opens up the whole sountstage. And my A3's currently with a Meridian 559.

Then with front-end i'd be looking at something like an Audiolab M-Dac or Rega Dac, which i've used with the A2's previously and worked well. A real bargain currently, if one comes up the Bay, is the Arcam D33 - it didn't get a lot of love in the hifi press so consequently they go for circa £800 s/h versus £2.2k new. I now use this with a pair of the A3's and its just a wonderful DAC, at least on a par with the NAIM DAC it replaced and with a more dynamic character. I now use the NAIM DAC with my 802's as its smoother character helps tame the B&W's tendency to brightness.

Most of the speakers suggested so far in this thread will be a step backwards imo, For instance, in respective ranges I would say you'd need to be looking at OB1's from PMC, as the A2's outperformed a pair of GB1's I had for a few months, and B&W 8 series below the 802, will sound a little bass light in comparison, and the 802's lose out to the A3's in this regard. In terms of character probably the closest with be KEF's Reference ranges as already suggested. I almost pulled the trigger on some REF 4.2's recently after someone suggested them on here as an alternative to A3's and in the demo they sounded fantastic, but I wasn't able to arrange shipping I was happy with, so hopefully a pair will come up more locally in the New Year.

Let us know how you get on and what you end switching to

Edited by StuH on Saturday 29th November 08:42

[Crackie]

Funk said:

I've had my A2s for over a decade now and they continue to sound brilliant. However, I'm starting to fancy a change,



Sound-wise I like a solid but not overpowering bass. I used to be a drummer so punchy but deep drums (especially kicks) and bass tickle my bits. I'd like a little more clarity in the midrange and treble, I listen to pretty much anything right through from solo acoustic guitars to funk (natch), blues, jazz, prog metal, rock, pop, classical - basically I'm looking for something that covers most of the bases rather than being particularly good at only a few.

I do wonder if I'm setting off on something of a fool's errand..? The A2s were very underrated at the time and as I say, they don't do anything wrong at all. I think I just have an itch to scratch after having the same speakers for so long!

You mention hoping to find a little more clarity in the mid and treble; the A2's bass/mid drivers are relatively large and their size dictates their off axis dispersion and power response. It may be that a good 3 way design with a dedicated mid driver could deliver what you're looking for.

Understood regarding having an itch to scratch ; the grass is always greener, no matter how happy you are with your system. I have some Impulse H2 speakers and also pair of Duntech Marquis; these are both excellent designs imho (they both employ dedicated mids ) but no matter how good they are, they leave me wanting speakers that combine the very best characteristics of both.

Edited by Crackie on Saturday 29th November 17:24

[Funk]

Dammit. Now I'm sat here listening to Allan Taylor's "Colour To The Moon" and thinking how utterly brilliant the whole thing sounds.

Damn and double damn. Perhaps I've just become a little blasé about just how good these speakers are...

[kenny.R400]

Nice one Funk, it's great when that happens, I reckon it must be the mood of the listener. Plenty of bunfights on hifi forums as to how a system can sound ordinary one time and it'll sing the next.

This A series range does seem to have a hard core following. The bloke I sold mine to was a superb chap and he also already had A1's and A3's and wanted the A2's to complete the set.
As I say I really liked them. Last year I backed to backed them with the Arivas using a variety of integrated and pre/power setups I had at the time.
Both performed well but the Arivas were just that bit faster and tighter with no mudiness in the midrange when cranked up, they were also that bit more pronounced with the high end cymbal crash and hi hats.
That said most of the kit used for that demo was Naim, a friend brought his Exposure gear round and the A2's seemed to appreciate them more........whereas those amps did nothing for the Arivas...........all down to system matching I guess.

Glad you like them again though, you'd need to spend a lot on new ones to match them.

[StuH]

Funk said:

Dammit. Now I'm sat here listening to Allan Taylor's "Colour To The Moon" and thinking how utterly brilliant the whole thing sounds.

Damn and double damn. Perhaps I've just become a little blasé about just how good these speakers are...

Sorted then

Tbh - Often the best way to make your stereo sound better is to sit down, crack open a bottle and dim the lights..

[Crackie]

Funk said:

Dammit. Now I'm sat here listening to Allan Taylor's "Colour To The Moon" and thinking how utterly brilliant the whole thing sounds.

Damn and double damn. Perhaps I've just become a little blasé about just how good these speakers are...

Pleased to hear the system is working well for you again.......

If the urge to improve things returns ............you mentioned above that " my room is probably the limiting factor, the source is my vast array of FLACs played in JRiver. This feeds into a Creative X-Fi HD 24/92 external soundcard."

One of these http://www.minidsp.com/products/dirac-series/ddrc-... might be of interest. Dirac's correction algorithm is arguably the best there is ( Rolls Royce, Bentley, Naim and OPPO use Dirac ). It could be used in two ways;
1. To correct your room's standing waves / modes which will improve bass.
2. Subtly change the sound balance of your system to suit precisely your own personal taste. You can store 4 different system response curves; one of these could be used to tweek the mid and treble more to your liking.

[Funk]

Thread bump...! Four years later I'm still running my A2s in the same setup but.......a pair of A3s in cherry have popped up on ebay.

The starting bid is £1,100 which I think is a little high (a mate of mine sold his rosewood A3s for £950 a year ago and I doubt A3s are appreciating!) and the fact he's had zero bids on this and his first listing with a starting bid of £1350 shows I'm not alone in thinking they're a little over the odds.

I also have reservations about paying through ebay prior to seeing/hearing them. I've messaged the seller and he's said I'd be welcome to hear them but he's already sold the rest of his gear so it would involve taking a source, amp and cabling up if I were to win. I'm also not sure what the process would be if I decided they didn't sound right - I'd have to get the transaction cancelled as I obviously wouldn't take them away and wouldn't want to leave without the money back in my Paypal account.

If I decide they're too good to pass up, what's the best way to proceed here chaps? I'm more used to turning up with cash, demo and inspect then hand over the readies.

[gizlaroc]

I have not read through all the replies, so sorry if I repeat or contradict earlier replies.

For starts, you have never heard what the A2s can do, not on that amp.
I had A2s and at one point had them on a Cinepro 3k6 amp bridged, when you hear them with that amount power they really come alive.

I would say first I would upgrade your amp to something much better.

I would also say go for the A3s, they are just nicer, the disappear more and sound more effortless.

[gizlaroc]

I should add, I think it is the extra bass that opens the soundstage more, I always add a sub for this reason.
Try your 2s with a sub maybe?

Old Rel Strata for £75 would be perfect.