Home AV Network - Where to start?
Discussion
Evening All - I'm about to move house and would love to have some form of AV network in the new home.
Not looking for anything overly complex but simply put 6 rooms each with TV's in them that I would like to be able to supply with my SKY HDR feed, a SKY HDR multi box, Apple TV, Freeview and have the ability to use a remote in each room to control all functions. Happy to installl isome cables or what ever it takes.
Just not exactly sure what kit I should be looking for and indeed where to start.
Thanks in advance.
Not looking for anything overly complex but simply put 6 rooms each with TV's in them that I would like to be able to supply with my SKY HDR feed, a SKY HDR multi box, Apple TV, Freeview and have the ability to use a remote in each room to control all functions. Happy to installl isome cables or what ever it takes.
Just not exactly sure what kit I should be looking for and indeed where to start.
Thanks in advance.
Hi,
Our company specialises in this, not sure if it's allowed so won't mention by name just yet!
I'll try to help by posing a few questions and comments, the kind of thing we ask all of our potential customers. It should help to think about the house as a whole a give you a good basis for researching what's possible beyond AV switching to create a truly integrated "smart" home... God that sounds like a sales pitch, we only stopped yesterday so still winding down, sorry! That said our goal is always to inform first and worry about the shiny bits later.
Anything is possible and can be achieved either on day 1 or later on. The key is to design a suitable infrastructure, wired, wireless, inside and out. Prices are coming down all the time and most "home automation" solutions have seen drastic changes in the availability and cost of the technology in the past few years.
Here we go;
What level of control would you like; Heating, Lighting, Shading, Audio, Video, Security... Fridge, Kettle, Spar, Hidden underground Batcave entrance!?
How important are each of the above to you in terms of control and ability to automate, program and tweak?
Do you have a central area in the home where you can locate AV / "comms" hardware?
What kind of property is it and how will you use it?
Do you consider yourself "techy", are your family the same?
How do you want to interact with the various services in your home environment and how often? Do you like to play with technology or merely want to consolidate control to make things simpler?
You mention remote control, how about iPhone, iPad, Android?
That's a start anyway
Best,
Our company specialises in this, not sure if it's allowed so won't mention by name just yet!
I'll try to help by posing a few questions and comments, the kind of thing we ask all of our potential customers. It should help to think about the house as a whole a give you a good basis for researching what's possible beyond AV switching to create a truly integrated "smart" home... God that sounds like a sales pitch, we only stopped yesterday so still winding down, sorry! That said our goal is always to inform first and worry about the shiny bits later.
Anything is possible and can be achieved either on day 1 or later on. The key is to design a suitable infrastructure, wired, wireless, inside and out. Prices are coming down all the time and most "home automation" solutions have seen drastic changes in the availability and cost of the technology in the past few years.
Here we go;
What level of control would you like; Heating, Lighting, Shading, Audio, Video, Security... Fridge, Kettle, Spar, Hidden underground Batcave entrance!?
How important are each of the above to you in terms of control and ability to automate, program and tweak?
Do you have a central area in the home where you can locate AV / "comms" hardware?
What kind of property is it and how will you use it?
Do you consider yourself "techy", are your family the same?
How do you want to interact with the various services in your home environment and how often? Do you like to play with technology or merely want to consolidate control to make things simpler?
You mention remote control, how about iPhone, iPad, Android?
That's a start anyway
Best,
Hi - thanks so much for the detailed reply.
Right answers-
What level of control would you like; Heating, Lighting, Shading, Audio, Video, Security... Fridge, Kettle, Spar, Hidden underground Batcave entrance!?
Heating, CCTV and TV set up as per the original post - I'm bought in to a Sonos system already for audio.
How important are each of the above to you in terms of control and ability to automate, program and tweak?
TV system would be the most important and the primary reason for doing this. I could live without the heating etc
Do you have a central area in the home where you can locate AV / "comms" hardware?
Not moved in yet but under the stairs looked like a good spot - alternatively we are building up and out so could incorporate something.
What kind of property is it and how will you use it?
4 bed detached - 2 floors going to 3 floors - family home primarily - work from home office but only really need wifi and a printer.
Do you consider yourself "techy", are your family the same?
Yes - I'd say quite techy.
How do you want to interact with the various services in your home environment and how often? Do you like to play with technology or merely want to consolidate control to make things simpler?
It would be multiple times daily - we have a busy home - I love mucking around with technology but simple makes sense.
You mention remote control, how about iPhone, iPad, Android?
It would be iPhone/iPad - no android devices.
Thanks.
Right answers-
What level of control would you like; Heating, Lighting, Shading, Audio, Video, Security... Fridge, Kettle, Spar, Hidden underground Batcave entrance!?
Heating, CCTV and TV set up as per the original post - I'm bought in to a Sonos system already for audio.
How important are each of the above to you in terms of control and ability to automate, program and tweak?
TV system would be the most important and the primary reason for doing this. I could live without the heating etc
Do you have a central area in the home where you can locate AV / "comms" hardware?
Not moved in yet but under the stairs looked like a good spot - alternatively we are building up and out so could incorporate something.
What kind of property is it and how will you use it?
4 bed detached - 2 floors going to 3 floors - family home primarily - work from home office but only really need wifi and a printer.
Do you consider yourself "techy", are your family the same?
Yes - I'd say quite techy.
How do you want to interact with the various services in your home environment and how often? Do you like to play with technology or merely want to consolidate control to make things simpler?
It would be multiple times daily - we have a busy home - I love mucking around with technology but simple makes sense.
You mention remote control, how about iPhone, iPad, Android?
It would be iPhone/iPad - no android devices.
Thanks.
No problem, a big part of me starting the company was my frustration at the industry in general, there's some truly excellent technology out there and some great people to work with but finding them can be a challenge sometimes! You seem like you are at the right time to be thinking about this and getting it right now will avoid any hassle integrating new technology in future. Obviously every project is different and I'd have to look over the plans in detail before offering any definitive solution but there are things we always try to achieve at a minimum, regardless of the size of build, to achieve an infrastructure that will support as much as possible in a future we can only take an educated guess at.
All a bit of a brain fart after a long weekend (year!) so bear with me and ask away... My wife couldn't honestly have expected the keyboard tapping to stop for Xmas, could she!?
Plan your cable runs early, try to achieve runs that interconnect and could allow access at a later date. The idea of course is that you won't need to to but I'm being selfish, there's nothing worse than a new build with no cable infrastructure! Avoid running power next to data / AV. Pick a good place for your system to expand if you're techy (it's addictive...) and make sure it's ventilated properly and sound isolated as much as possible.
Use good quality CAT6 and speaker cable, have it terminated professionally by a CI engineer even if you aren't spending thousands on gear with them, they take pride in their work as it's generally more visible (sometime by design) than electrical / mechanical.
4 x CAT6 + 2 x 240v to each TV point. We also try to run multicore Fibre where possible. If they're going on the walls, sink in the sockets as much as possible. Depending on what you're trying to achieve TV's can be hidden entirely in walls, counter tops, beds, ceilings - None of it needs to be super expensive, or even needs doing right away but at least wire for it now. We never wire a single CAT6 if we can help it, minimum 2, don't forget exterior Wireless Access Points / Cameras / Sensors.
Heating and Lighting have a massive range of solutions dependant on budget and desired effect and control level, a few of the links below will get you thinking and happier to go into more detail about individual systems. Watch the cheaper stuff, lack of support can be painful with buggy products and you don't want to loose the simplicity of hitting a switch and the lights just working, neither will your MIL on a early hour toilet run. Use good quality LED everywhere if possible to avoid dimming range / flickering issues. Think about external lighting and the grand scheme when finished, you don't have to fit every fitting right away, just hide the tail away.
Automated shades are great as part of a connected environment, something we seem to be doing a lot of at the moment. Probably part of a deeper automation discussion but not to be forgotten about, wireless is possible if a little pricy but really worth thinking about, especially in the bedroom and living / entertaining spaces.
Extra 4 CAT6 to another point or 2 in the room for phones, WAPs, RF repeaters, thermostats, sensors.
Whatever you do, get a real IP Network Engineer to sort your network, wired and wireless also remote access, you won't regret it. If there's one thing you do, do this.
Home Cinema is a whole discussion of it's own except to say do your research and watch the snake oil. Again happy to go into more detail separately but as far a wiring we generally go high up and at least 7.2, think about projector / screen requirements the same as a TV at both ends and don't buy speakers / amps you haven't listened to. Focus on streaming, from network to AV output, conventional TV is dead (OK, nearly, dying...).
Switching HD sources around the home in a way that does't make you want to tear your eyes out can be expensive but worth it. beware of cheap switches having HDCP issues and other acronyms... This is a big part of what we do and relies on everything from the source in the rack to the quality of cable and how it's terminated.
Cameras and Security Lighting can now be one and the same - Think about positioning early. No point in having them if I sneak under and snip the cable or cut the power. Have the connections inside. You be surprised what can be achieved as part of a broader automation solution, especially if you like tweaking.
Beware of secure access / alarm solutions and their implications for insurance. Sometimes simpler is better and anything can be engineered at a low level to alert you to the alarm going off etc.. In short, some of this "smart lock" crap is just that.
iPad / iPhone, iOS in general are our integration device of choice, but don't forget about physical buttons, as convenient as it is always having the control in your pocket, you can still hit a switch faster than you can unlock your iPhone.
Sonos is a good choice, there's a lot out there but nothing spectacularly different to get hung up on. They also have the same high level investor as my favourite automation system and some exciting things in the pipeline ;c)
Products we're excited about, and installing a lot of right now, a massive range of price ranges here!
Lighting & Shades:
Phillips Hue - Retrofit, Colour change, Wireless lighting.
Lutron - Grafik Eye QS, Homeworks QS, Sivoia, Triathlon.
Mode eDin - Lighting / motor control system
OceanAir - Window treatments using Lutron motors
Heating:
Heatmiser Neo
Honeywell Evohome
Cameras:
Axis, Dlink, Lilin
Mac servers, RAID enclosure CCTV, feed it into the switching matrix via. HDMI and to the device over IP.
AV / Home Theatre I'll stay away from for now for fear of starting a war.
Hope that helps and feel free to ask away, did;t expect to be writing this tonight but t'was fun
All a bit of a brain fart after a long weekend (year!) so bear with me and ask away... My wife couldn't honestly have expected the keyboard tapping to stop for Xmas, could she!?
Plan your cable runs early, try to achieve runs that interconnect and could allow access at a later date. The idea of course is that you won't need to to but I'm being selfish, there's nothing worse than a new build with no cable infrastructure! Avoid running power next to data / AV. Pick a good place for your system to expand if you're techy (it's addictive...) and make sure it's ventilated properly and sound isolated as much as possible.
Use good quality CAT6 and speaker cable, have it terminated professionally by a CI engineer even if you aren't spending thousands on gear with them, they take pride in their work as it's generally more visible (sometime by design) than electrical / mechanical.
4 x CAT6 + 2 x 240v to each TV point. We also try to run multicore Fibre where possible. If they're going on the walls, sink in the sockets as much as possible. Depending on what you're trying to achieve TV's can be hidden entirely in walls, counter tops, beds, ceilings - None of it needs to be super expensive, or even needs doing right away but at least wire for it now. We never wire a single CAT6 if we can help it, minimum 2, don't forget exterior Wireless Access Points / Cameras / Sensors.
Heating and Lighting have a massive range of solutions dependant on budget and desired effect and control level, a few of the links below will get you thinking and happier to go into more detail about individual systems. Watch the cheaper stuff, lack of support can be painful with buggy products and you don't want to loose the simplicity of hitting a switch and the lights just working, neither will your MIL on a early hour toilet run. Use good quality LED everywhere if possible to avoid dimming range / flickering issues. Think about external lighting and the grand scheme when finished, you don't have to fit every fitting right away, just hide the tail away.
Automated shades are great as part of a connected environment, something we seem to be doing a lot of at the moment. Probably part of a deeper automation discussion but not to be forgotten about, wireless is possible if a little pricy but really worth thinking about, especially in the bedroom and living / entertaining spaces.
Extra 4 CAT6 to another point or 2 in the room for phones, WAPs, RF repeaters, thermostats, sensors.
Whatever you do, get a real IP Network Engineer to sort your network, wired and wireless also remote access, you won't regret it. If there's one thing you do, do this.
Home Cinema is a whole discussion of it's own except to say do your research and watch the snake oil. Again happy to go into more detail separately but as far a wiring we generally go high up and at least 7.2, think about projector / screen requirements the same as a TV at both ends and don't buy speakers / amps you haven't listened to. Focus on streaming, from network to AV output, conventional TV is dead (OK, nearly, dying...).
Switching HD sources around the home in a way that does't make you want to tear your eyes out can be expensive but worth it. beware of cheap switches having HDCP issues and other acronyms... This is a big part of what we do and relies on everything from the source in the rack to the quality of cable and how it's terminated.
Cameras and Security Lighting can now be one and the same - Think about positioning early. No point in having them if I sneak under and snip the cable or cut the power. Have the connections inside. You be surprised what can be achieved as part of a broader automation solution, especially if you like tweaking.
Beware of secure access / alarm solutions and their implications for insurance. Sometimes simpler is better and anything can be engineered at a low level to alert you to the alarm going off etc.. In short, some of this "smart lock" crap is just that.
iPad / iPhone, iOS in general are our integration device of choice, but don't forget about physical buttons, as convenient as it is always having the control in your pocket, you can still hit a switch faster than you can unlock your iPhone.
Sonos is a good choice, there's a lot out there but nothing spectacularly different to get hung up on. They also have the same high level investor as my favourite automation system and some exciting things in the pipeline ;c)
Products we're excited about, and installing a lot of right now, a massive range of price ranges here!
Lighting & Shades:
Phillips Hue - Retrofit, Colour change, Wireless lighting.
Lutron - Grafik Eye QS, Homeworks QS, Sivoia, Triathlon.
Mode eDin - Lighting / motor control system
OceanAir - Window treatments using Lutron motors
Heating:
Heatmiser Neo
Honeywell Evohome
Cameras:
Axis, Dlink, Lilin
Mac servers, RAID enclosure CCTV, feed it into the switching matrix via. HDMI and to the device over IP.
AV / Home Theatre I'll stay away from for now for fear of starting a war.
Hope that helps and feel free to ask away, did;t expect to be writing this tonight but t'was fun
There are quite a few of us Custom Installer / AV / Integration Companies on here. So I will comment as well.
I agree with most of what has been said so far by Firebox although I think initial his market position is quite high, this might well be where you are looking, but equally it may not.
Budgets for systems can really start low to get your initial cable structure in which you can then add to over time and as budget allows. The flip side is building something that really integrates with the way you and your family live, it can climb in cost quite quickly, but by talking them through fully you can choose what are priorities and what you want and can wait for.
Happy to chat here or off line if you want to.
V.
I agree with most of what has been said so far by Firebox although I think initial his market position is quite high, this might well be where you are looking, but equally it may not.
Budgets for systems can really start low to get your initial cable structure in which you can then add to over time and as budget allows. The flip side is building something that really integrates with the way you and your family live, it can climb in cost quite quickly, but by talking them through fully you can choose what are priorities and what you want and can wait for.
Happy to chat here or off line if you want to.
V.
I should have said, this is what we've been using for 3 years since deciding it was the solution to take things forward and I must say I'm impressed coming from an IP Engineering / Unix background.
https://www.savant.com
A bit of an advert I guess but prices have just dropped dramatically and (not saying you're cheap!) it's just opened home automation up to normal people levels of numberwang. In fact I'll be putting a system in my own home for the first time soon and I'm no powerfully built company director of manmaths!
It's all about tying things together in this whole "Internet of Things", Savant work with the best manufacturers in their sectors bring them together into a scene button on an iPad or a workflow triggered by anything you can imagine (and connect to!) I always position Savant as the Conductor in command of a very talented Orchestra... Now that sounds like a sales pitch but it really makes sense... And I'm an engineer anyway, promise!
Best of luck with your project and have a great new year!
https://www.savant.com
A bit of an advert I guess but prices have just dropped dramatically and (not saying you're cheap!) it's just opened home automation up to normal people levels of numberwang. In fact I'll be putting a system in my own home for the first time soon and I'm no powerfully built company director of manmaths!
It's all about tying things together in this whole "Internet of Things", Savant work with the best manufacturers in their sectors bring them together into a scene button on an iPad or a workflow triggered by anything you can imagine (and connect to!) I always position Savant as the Conductor in command of a very talented Orchestra... Now that sounds like a sales pitch but it really makes sense... And I'm an engineer anyway, promise!
Best of luck with your project and have a great new year!
VEX said:
There are quite a few of us Custom Installer / AV / Integration Companies on here. So I will comment as well.
I agree with most of what has been said so far by Firebox although I think initial his market position is quite high, this might well be where you are looking, but equally it may not.
Budgets for systems can really start low to get your initial cable structure in which you can then add to over time and as budget allows. The flip side is building something that really integrates with the way you and your family live, it can climb in cost quite quickly, but by talking them through fully you can choose what are priorities and what you want and can wait for.
Happy to chat here or off line if you want to.
V.
Hi, totally agree with this and don't mean to step on any toes round here.I agree with most of what has been said so far by Firebox although I think initial his market position is quite high, this might well be where you are looking, but equally it may not.
Budgets for systems can really start low to get your initial cable structure in which you can then add to over time and as budget allows. The flip side is building something that really integrates with the way you and your family live, it can climb in cost quite quickly, but by talking them through fully you can choose what are priorities and what you want and can wait for.
Happy to chat here or off line if you want to.
V.
Our market position is historically quite high but you know will know as well as I do where the market is heading. Equally, the right cable infrastructure does not have to be a major cost factor if designed with care. The industry is moving fast and I'd be the last person investing in purely high end right now, there's a balance to be achievd on every project and it's certainly not all about money for us.
Peace
I have been through the process of creating an automated home and have been in for a couple of years. It can get expensive but after much research and discussion with Vex I found the most important thing was getting the infrastructure in place. Hardware costs were coming down a couple of years ago let alone now. Happy to chat by mail or phone if you wish.
I am not picking on Firebox at all, I don't know him or his installs, this is just pointers for those looking at these types of systems.
The biggest problem with any system that has a customised front end it (layout and presentation) is purely down to how it is programed.
There are a lot of poorly executed systems out there, I once reviewed a Creston system that had its sky control that meant you had to switch between two different pages for basic control, it was useless.
With any system like this, make sure you see what they have produced in the past and you like their style.
V.
The biggest problem with any system that has a customised front end it (layout and presentation) is purely down to how it is programed.
There are a lot of poorly executed systems out there, I once reviewed a Creston system that had its sky control that meant you had to switch between two different pages for basic control, it was useless.
With any system like this, make sure you see what they have produced in the past and you like their style.
V.
Firebox7 said:
Hi, totally agree with this and don't mean to step on any toes round here.
Our market position is historically quite high but you know will know as well as I do where the market is heading. Equally, the right cable infrastructure does not have to be a major cost factor if designed with care. The industry is moving fast and I'd be the last person investing in purely high end right now, there's a balance to be achievd on every project and it's certainly not all about money for us.
Peace
Don't worry about any toes on here Mr FireBox (I think I know who your company is) the forums on here are for exactly this type of discussion and always happy to learn from others and debate ideas.Our market position is historically quite high but you know will know as well as I do where the market is heading. Equally, the right cable infrastructure does not have to be a major cost factor if designed with care. The industry is moving fast and I'd be the last person investing in purely high end right now, there's a balance to be achievd on every project and it's certainly not all about money for us.
Peace
Hi Rex, good to see you pop up again. how is the house?
V.
Absolutely, I've seen good and bad from many, many systems over the years. Contractor and Integrator make or break it every time. Hardware / Manufacturer / Brand choice is also a major factor right now too, no point in investing heavily in brands that isolate themselves and die off while others play nice, merge and conquer. Just look what happened with Blackberry,..
Obviously it interests me otherwise I wouldn't be in the trade but I do understand the perils from a consumer point of view as I am one. Building a "smart" home should be satisfying, fun, and actually achieve something for you, Use your imagination and research wisely, it's time well spent.
Obviously it interests me otherwise I wouldn't be in the trade but I do understand the perils from a consumer point of view as I am one. Building a "smart" home should be satisfying, fun, and actually achieve something for you, Use your imagination and research wisely, it's time well spent.
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff