Cowon X7 vs AK120

Author
Discussion

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
All the players seem a compromise of one sort or another - whether it be poor battery life, limited expansion or a poor UI. Frustrating that 1 manufacturer can't get them all right, however much they charge for the end product.

Perfect player (for me):
Wide variety of formats
A battery life quoted in double figures, not single figures.
128gb or greater storage
A screen larger than a couple of inches wide
A UI that isn't buggy and allows display of album art at a size larger than a postage stamp, with readable text and easy navigation to browse by either artists, albums, genre and album artist if possible
A hold button
Great sound quality

Nothing seems to do them all. At the moment, the iBasso players seem to have the most acceptable combination of those features for me. Youtube is a great resource to get a look at the UIs of the players available (even if most of the "unboxing" and "reviews" are very dull!).

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Everything is a compromise though, you just need to decide what can be sacrificed on the "must have list" smile

The iBasso players have lots going for them, but they aren't the end it all perfect player either.

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
Everything is a compromise though, you just need to decide what can be sacrificed on the "must have list" smile

The iBasso players have lots going for them, but they aren't the end it all perfect player either.
Agree on both points smile The first one is especially frustrating though. Maybe in my next life I can come back as a designer of high end portable audio... smile

Podie

46,630 posts

274 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
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The st UI thing annoys me, but I found after a while that you do get used to it.

TBH, I tend to listen to an album or a playlist, so I only deal with the UI briefly.

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Podie said:
The st UI thing annoys me, but I found after a while that you do get used to it.

TBH, I tend to listen to an album or a playlist, so I only deal with the UI briefly.
I guess it IS a minor thing - at least with Cowons its possible to download 3rd party UIs which vastly improve the UI (and in the X7's case, correct some display bugs). I tend to want to find an album and then listen to it all the way through before moving on. But having spent a long time finding album art for all my CDs and downloaded music, it would be nice to see it ok. Silly little thing, I know. I wish this OCD would bugger off... laugh

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
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If you want a usable and even quite nice UI (at least once you've gotten used to it) get a player that can be Rockboxed, you can tailor the player to match your preferences with plenty of themes available and plenty of tweaks for the sound as well.

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Thanks Finlandia - I guess part of today will be spent googling rockbox now. You did say you had the cheaper of the iBasso players with rockbox? Its the iBasso at the moment which is looking the most likely I think.

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Yes, I have the DX50 with dual boot Rockbox firmware on, can't really fault it at the price, sounds very nice in a old school British Hi-Fi kind of way, mellow, warm, great detail and very musical.

And as said, with Rockbox you can set it up pretty much as you like, there are a few niggles though, the most annoying being that on start up the sound stutters for a second or two before the electronics inside have gotten up to temperature, or something.

SGirl

Original Poster:

7,918 posts

260 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Thanks C&C - I'll check them out. Might be a good place to buy from even if I don't go for the Hifiman.

As for the rest - well. I'm now thoroughly confused. smile I know what I want:

1) Excellent sound quality
2) Lots of storage
3) A decent UI that doesn't require me to have fingers the size of matchsticks or a degree in Finding The Non-obvious
4) Something which isn't going to die forever if I forget to charge it
5) Ideally a decent battery life into double figures
6) I'm not bothered about cover display, I have cover art for most of my albums but I don't really look at the player while I'm listening to it. smile A UI with decent text size is always helpful, though, on account of me being somewhat myopic!

I didn't think that was too much to ask, but reading through this lot it looks like I'm not going to get it in a single player. I think the solution will be to keep the X7 for times I need lots of battery life, and get something that suits my other requirements more for times when an hour or two will do. If the X7 hadn't got this bricking problem and a UI that is at least marginally improved with third-party input, it would be ideal. But it's not.

I must look into Rockbox, thanks for the info. I was thinking about it when I bought the X7, but I was too idle to follow it up back then!

I wonder if this means I've ruled out the AK120 now??

StuH

2,557 posts

272 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
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Are you guys using the Onkyo HF app?

I think my solution of iPhone6+ with HF Player into Chord Hugo is finally the solution I've been looking for! A UI that no DAP can match with best of breed dac/amp biggrin

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
StuH said:
Are you guys using the Onkyo HF app?

I think my solution of iPhone6+ with HF Player into Chord Hugo is finally the solution I've been looking for! A UI that no DAP can match with best of breed dac/amp biggrin
But then you have two devices to lug around (even if they may be smaller and lighter than some of the high end DAPs) smile

The Chord Hugo is one great piece of equipment though, makes me think of the old Pioneer slogan, have an eargasm hehe

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
I think having a 3rd party box to lug around alongside a player - especially one that costs SO MUCH - would rule out the Chord Hugo for me. My ears are almost 51 years old - they'll never appreciate it anyway. smile

Still wavering towards an iBasso at the moment. Will read up on rockbox later today when I get a few mins spare. Great thread! Thank you for all the input so far. smile Even if it ends up costing me money I didn't know I was going to spend... laugh

SGirl

Original Poster:

7,918 posts

260 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
StuH said:
Are you guys using the Onkyo HF app?

I think my solution of iPhone6+ with HF Player into Chord Hugo is finally the solution I've been looking for! A UI that no DAP can match with best of breed dac/amp biggrin
The Chord Hugo - how much??!! eek Nice bit of kit though. I was using a Fiio with my iPod, that was how I got into all this high-end stuff in the first place. Always room for improvement!

Hmm, I wonder... X7 with Chord Hugo. Nope! Still doesn't work for me, the X7 and its dodgy service life is the sticking point.

But a Chord Hugo with something else - that might be interesting. iPod Classic even? Or is that chucking good money after - less good?

Flip, I'd be interested to know what you come up with re. the iBasso. Specifically as regards UI and reliability!

This is why I like PH - so many people on here are very knowledgeable about the most obscure of topics, and you can find out all sorts of stuff on here that you didn't know you needed to know. Without you guys, I'd have stumped up £700 for a device a couple of weeks ago and been regretting it by now. wink So thank you all!

Hey, how about Chord Hugo + AK120?

Edited by SGirl on Tuesday 14th April 14:12

Finlandia

7,803 posts

230 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
SGirl said:
Without you guys, I've have stumped up £700 for a device a couple of weeks ago and been regretting it by now. wink So thank you all!
Don't be silly, we will have you spend £2700, at least hehe

Can't remember now, but does the X7 or AK120 have digital out in any shape or form? You need something that can give out a digital signal to get the Chord to convert it, that's when you get the sublime sound.


SGirl

Original Poster:

7,918 posts

260 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Finlandia said:
Don't be silly, we will have you spend £2700, at least hehe
Yes, but at least I'll like what I get for my £2700, whereas if I'd bought the AK120 I'd be cheesed off with it by now. biggrin

Finlandia said:
Can't remember now, but does the X7 or AK120 have digital out in any shape or form? You need something that can give out a digital signal to get the Chord to convert it, that's when you get the sublime sound.
I don't know, I'll have to check. I don't think the X7 has it - but I might be wrong on that.

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Seriously - don't buy ANYTHING specifically to support the X7! It WILL fail on you...

Will report back once I've sat and done a bit of research.

StuH

2,557 posts

272 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
Flip Martian said:
I think having a 3rd party box to lug around alongside a player - especially one that costs SO MUCH - would rule out the Chord Hugo for me. My ears are almost 51 years old - they'll never appreciate it anyway. smile
Well it depends how you look at it. I ALWAYS have my Phone on me, so when I was using the AK120 as well, I still had 2 boxes, and the AK is a bit chunky! To me the real achilles of all the DAP's is the poor UI, so using the iPhone with it's superb UI as the player solves that problem. In addition I can download from TIDAL in lossless for offline use, Soundcloud, Spotify etc, and the real clincher, Onkyo HF, which allows me to stream native DSD and other HD audio (not sampled to PCM).

http://www.whathifi.com/news/onkyo-hf-player-app-p...

Of course the achilles of the Iphone is the DAC and amp. So now that the iPhone can be used as a HD digital transport you just need to bypass the inbuilt DAC and amp. Admittedly the HUGO is quite pricey - although it's so good it's now in use in my main home system, which to me makes it an absolute bargain.

A more reasonable partner might be the OPPO HA-2. I now use this as my main mobile/travel/gym setup. Top quality Sabre DAC and superb amp with adjustable gain for IEMs/Over-ears. It also has an analogue volume control so the signal remains bit-perfect with no loss of accuracy as is the case with digital attenuation.

http://www.digitalaudioreview.net/2015/02/oppo-ha-...

To me the iPhone/Onkyo HF ----> Oppo HA-2 ----> Sennheiser IE800 is about as good as it gets for mobile audio and betters the AK120 for sound quality - I would go as far as to say that it achieves Finlandia's 'Eargasm' on a regular basis biggrin - Plus the units TOGETHER are smaller than the AK.



Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Tuesday 14th April 2015
quotequote all
StuH said:
To me the iPhone/Onkyo HF ----> Oppo HA-2 ----> Sennheiser IE800 is about as good as it gets for mobile audio and betters the AK120 for sound quality - I would go as far as to say that it achieves Finlandia's 'Eargasm' on a regular basis biggrin - Plus the units TOGETHER are smaller than the AK.
Fair enough, but it should provide the regular "eargasm" for the price you paid. Sounds like you get good use out of it so for you at least, its worth the money clearly. My budgets are a bit more modest. smile


EDIT: should have read the post properly - sorry. Clearly the HA-2 is far more sensibly priced. Something else to google...

Edited by Flip Martian on Tuesday 14th April 20:56

Flip Martian

19,503 posts

189 months

Wednesday 15th April 2015
quotequote all
Still researching - just found what looked like a player with a lovely looking UI. And then I found it was the A & K AK240. And then I looked up the price.

Oh well. Research continues laugh

iBasso DX90 is looking a steal at around £260 via some websites. Battery life is less than the DX50 but with replaceable batteries that's less of an issue. General feedback seems to be that the build quality is better than the 50, UI is more responsive too - not to mention the more developed sound.

SGirl

Original Poster:

7,918 posts

260 months

Wednesday 15th April 2015
quotequote all
Flip Martian said:
Still researching - just found what looked like a player with a lovely looking UI. And then I found it was the A & K AK240. And then I looked up the price.

Oh well. Research continues laugh
Ah. Now we come to it. I had exactly this experience when I arrived at the notion of buying the AK120 initially. I'd all but forgotten the AK240, but now you've reminded me and my credit card fingers are itching...! It certainly seems to do everything, and with 256GB internal storage + 128GB card slot and a decent UI but "only" 14 hours of battery life. But what is it they say, now - buy cheap, buy twice? yes

One of the review sites listed the downsides as no online browsing option (don't need that), can't yet upload songs directly from browser (don't need that either), mediocre battery life (14 hours isn't that bad, is it?) and expensive (can't dispute that one...). It does everything I want it to do, just the price is a little - enthusiastic. Is it really that much better than the AK120? I haven't decided.

Well. I was considering the Hugo at £1400 yesterday, which would be an add-on to something else (definitely not the X7!), so all in all Finlandia's £2700 estimate doesn't seem to be all that far off the mark. hehe

Flip Martian said:
iBasso DX90 is looking a steal at around £260 via some websites. Battery life is less than the DX50 but with replaceable batteries that's less of an issue. General feedback seems to be that the build quality is better than the 50, UI is more responsive too - not to mention the more developed sound.
Thanks Flip, I'll check it out. Just as soon as I've got the notion of the AK240 out of my head. wink