Technics SL-1200/1210 MK2 Turntable.
Discussion
Miguel Alvarez said:
What do you want from the turntable? The reason I ask is different needles bring different things to the table.
I had a love hate relationships with Ortofons. The connectors are a little shorter than the Technic headshells (or used to be). I also found Ortofons would speed up cue burn on my records. Some of the records I have from a certain time frame have terrible fuzz at certain points from constant scratching and cueing. [technical moment] the pin at the top of the cart used to shear off as well if screwed in to tight [/technical moment]. On the plus side. I preferred the sound quality on the Ortofons. They had a wider sound.
Shure M44-7 are what I used most of the time. Standard needle. Not much to say really. Not as wide sounding as some of the Ortofon range but they last ages and are pretty easy on the vinyl if you're scratching loads. There was a replica stylus which I tried out once. I didn't try a home test but for club work I didn't notice any difference. The only downside was they didn't last as long as the M44-7. I remember replacing them in half the time I usally bought the M44-7s.
Again there are better options if you just want them for listening to music with at home.
I am a sucker for classic stuff, to the Techy is what I want.I will be using it for listening to music via the aforementioned Denon. I want to extract as much detail from my vinyl collection as possible ie: Deep bass & Clear treble hence me seeking advice on cartridges. I don't care for scratching or anything else, just listening to music and I tend to do that at high volumes. Yes I know the Mitsubishi Evo is better than the E type, but it's the latter I want!I had a love hate relationships with Ortofons. The connectors are a little shorter than the Technic headshells (or used to be). I also found Ortofons would speed up cue burn on my records. Some of the records I have from a certain time frame have terrible fuzz at certain points from constant scratching and cueing. [technical moment] the pin at the top of the cart used to shear off as well if screwed in to tight [/technical moment]. On the plus side. I preferred the sound quality on the Ortofons. They had a wider sound.
Shure M44-7 are what I used most of the time. Standard needle. Not much to say really. Not as wide sounding as some of the Ortofon range but they last ages and are pretty easy on the vinyl if you're scratching loads. There was a replica stylus which I tried out once. I didn't try a home test but for club work I didn't notice any difference. The only downside was they didn't last as long as the M44-7. I remember replacing them in half the time I usally bought the M44-7s.
Again there are better options if you just want them for listening to music with at home.
I went through the same process about 3 years ago.
I trawled ebay for ages and eventually found one that was totally unused from a private seller. It was pricey compared to the ex-DJ stuff that was for sale, but I expect it is worth more now than I paid. It is worth keeping up with the search!
I moved from the Technics to my 'dream' deck, a Michell Gyro SE, and I love it. My Technics is back in the box for the moment until I find a house big enough for two hifi systems.
I trawled ebay for ages and eventually found one that was totally unused from a private seller. It was pricey compared to the ex-DJ stuff that was for sale, but I expect it is worth more now than I paid. It is worth keeping up with the search!
I moved from the Technics to my 'dream' deck, a Michell Gyro SE, and I love it. My Technics is back in the box for the moment until I find a house big enough for two hifi systems.
The pioneer PLX is utter rubbish
Too heavy, very poorly made inside (mostly a single PCB - good luck with that in a couple of years!), plastic chassis instead of rubber, and of most concern it gives feedback at a lot more frequencies that the 1200/1210s don't do. Even the frequencies that do commonly appear on the 1200/1210s are much,much more prominent on the pioneer and require a lot of reduction. The pitch is also awful and more like a CDJ than a 1200/1210.
Comically, pioneer have also put a detachable ground on there.....that you don't actually need to use
Having set them up, used them, and compared them back to back with the technics that I know inside and out over a proper system, it is very apparent how many corners have been cut, but that doesn't really surprise me any more. I did not mince my words with my friend at pioneer when I was sent them and asked my opinions!
I would suggest;
Get the best 1200/1210 you can find - Mk2s are still great, although something like an M3D or 5G improves it slightly with the quartz lock button instead of the click, but these cost more. A good unit should be relatively easy to find on ebay if you know what to look for.
Get a decent length of van damme cable, some quality phono plugs, and a new phono PCB (the tracks can often lift when you de/resolder the old cables) , rip out the old factory cables, fit this lot and at the same time ground it internally. You should also look into a set of insonoe feet with the sorbothane boots (no glass) which make a huge difference. Even just the sorbothanes are worthwhile by themselves.
Spares for everything are readily available and not bank-busting, so I would perhaps lean towards superior cosmetic condition as being one of the more important than most things when looking - it is also a good sign that it has been looked after and not a battered ex-club/rental unit. You would be amazed at the state of some of the units I have seen that still work perfectly! You can pick up unused ones but they command a premium for fairly obvious reasons...
Shure M44-7 are far superior to ortofon in every way- especially with heavy bass and at high volume.
Having said all that, there is an event in germany in two days, with the tagline 'technics is back', so you may well be able to buy a new one again shortly...
Too heavy, very poorly made inside (mostly a single PCB - good luck with that in a couple of years!), plastic chassis instead of rubber, and of most concern it gives feedback at a lot more frequencies that the 1200/1210s don't do. Even the frequencies that do commonly appear on the 1200/1210s are much,much more prominent on the pioneer and require a lot of reduction. The pitch is also awful and more like a CDJ than a 1200/1210.
Comically, pioneer have also put a detachable ground on there.....that you don't actually need to use
Having set them up, used them, and compared them back to back with the technics that I know inside and out over a proper system, it is very apparent how many corners have been cut, but that doesn't really surprise me any more. I did not mince my words with my friend at pioneer when I was sent them and asked my opinions!
I would suggest;
Get the best 1200/1210 you can find - Mk2s are still great, although something like an M3D or 5G improves it slightly with the quartz lock button instead of the click, but these cost more. A good unit should be relatively easy to find on ebay if you know what to look for.
Get a decent length of van damme cable, some quality phono plugs, and a new phono PCB (the tracks can often lift when you de/resolder the old cables) , rip out the old factory cables, fit this lot and at the same time ground it internally. You should also look into a set of insonoe feet with the sorbothane boots (no glass) which make a huge difference. Even just the sorbothanes are worthwhile by themselves.
Spares for everything are readily available and not bank-busting, so I would perhaps lean towards superior cosmetic condition as being one of the more important than most things when looking - it is also a good sign that it has been looked after and not a battered ex-club/rental unit. You would be amazed at the state of some of the units I have seen that still work perfectly! You can pick up unused ones but they command a premium for fairly obvious reasons...
Shure M44-7 are far superior to ortofon in every way- especially with heavy bass and at high volume.
Having said all that, there is an event in germany in two days, with the tagline 'technics is back', so you may well be able to buy a new one again shortly...
Edited by GCH on Wednesday 22 April 18:06
I loved my 1210s back in the day, started with a Kam 2 channel mixer, then Intimidation Blue and then a Vestax PCM05 I think it was, which I loved.
However, for listening to tunes at home I had a Rega (RP3 I think), so much nicer in every way, smoother sound, bigger sound stage, far more detail and dynamic range were all better. You can do some upgrades on a 1200 though to get it sounding more hifi.
However, for listening to tunes at home I had a Rega (RP3 I think), so much nicer in every way, smoother sound, bigger sound stage, far more detail and dynamic range were all better. You can do some upgrades on a 1200 though to get it sounding more hifi.
GCH said:
The pioneer PLX is utter rubbish
Too heavy, very poorly made inside (mostly a single PCB - good luck with that in a couple of years!), plastic chassis instead of rubber, and of most concern it gives feedback at a lot more frequencies that the 1200/1210s don't do. Even the frequencies that do commonly appear on the 1200/1210s are much,much more prominent on the pioneer and require a lot of reduction. The pitch is also awful and more like a CDJ than a 1200/1210.
Comically, pioneer have also put a detachable ground on there.....that you don't actually need to use
Having set them up, used them, and compared them back to back with the technics that I know inside and out over a proper system, it is very apparent how many corners have been cut, but that doesn't really surprise me any more. I did not mince my words with my friend at pioneer when I was sent them and asked my opinions!
totally agree, on the surface all looks good till you start dissecting the Pioneer.It's a shame that such a big brand does things on the cheap, Chinese takeover maybe? Who knows.Too heavy, very poorly made inside (mostly a single PCB - good luck with that in a couple of years!), plastic chassis instead of rubber, and of most concern it gives feedback at a lot more frequencies that the 1200/1210s don't do. Even the frequencies that do commonly appear on the 1200/1210s are much,much more prominent on the pioneer and require a lot of reduction. The pitch is also awful and more like a CDJ than a 1200/1210.
Comically, pioneer have also put a detachable ground on there.....that you don't actually need to use
Having set them up, used them, and compared them back to back with the technics that I know inside and out over a proper system, it is very apparent how many corners have been cut, but that doesn't really surprise me any more. I did not mince my words with my friend at pioneer when I was sent them and asked my opinions!
GCH said:
I would suggest;
Get the best 1200/1210 you can find - Mk2s are still great, although something like an M3D or 5G improves it slightly with the quartz lock button instead of the click, but these cost more. A good unit should be relatively easy to find on ebay if you know what to look for.
Sound advice, I am willing to pay extra just to get that illusive "virgin" turntable. There are a couple on Ebay for a Grand each and it's claimed they are "new" but I am a bit suspicious when it comes to Ebay. Get the best 1200/1210 you can find - Mk2s are still great, although something like an M3D or 5G improves it slightly with the quartz lock button instead of the click, but these cost more. A good unit should be relatively easy to find on ebay if you know what to look for.
GCH said:
Get a decent length of van damme cable, some quality phono plugs, and a new phono PCB (the tracks can often lift when you de/resolder the old cables) , rip out the old factory cables, fit this lot and at the same time ground it internally. You should also look into a set of insonoe feet with the sorbothane boots (no glass) which make a huge difference. Even just the sorbothanes are worthwhile by themselves.
Now you are getting way ahead of me! I will be too scared to open a Techy 1210 and start fiddling with PCBs and the likes 
GCH said:
Spares for everything are readily available and not bank-busting, so I would perhaps lean towards superior cosmetic condition as being one of the more important than most things when looking - it is also a good sign that it has been looked after and not a battered ex-club/rental unit. You would be amazed at the state of some of the units I have seen that still work perfectly! You can pick up unused ones but they command a premium for fairly obvious reasons...
Agree and I will take that advice onboard and apply it as the last resort if no new units were found.GCH said:
Shure M44-7 are far superior to ortofon in every way- especially with heavy bass and at high volume.
Excellent, thanks for that, and thank you for taking your time, your advice is very valuable. 
GCH said:
Having said all that, there is an event in germany in two days, with the tagline 'technics is back', so you may well be able to buy a new one again shortly...
That would be great news!allnighter said:
am a sucker for classic stuff, to the Techy is what I want.I will be using it for listening to music via the aforementioned Denon. I want to extract as much detail from my vinyl collection as possible ie: Deep bass & Clear treble hence me seeking advice on cartridges. I don't care for scratching or anything else, just listening to music and I tend to do that at high volumes. Yes I know the Mitsubishi Evo is better than the E type, but it's the latter I want!
To be honest I don't think you'll go wrong with M44-7s. They've been great for me djing. I used them for sampling as well along with alot of other hip hop producers as well. They're pretty standard. Silver Smudger said:
TwigtheWonderkid said:
I have an Audio Technica LP-120. Basically it's a copy of the SL1200. Love it.
It does look the part, is it as well built? Sounds as nice? I am tempted as it gets good reviews as a budget deck...TBH, I bought it because as a kid I always wanted an SL-1200 but never got close to having one. It looks cool in the dark, with the strobe and the guide light.
The 1200/1210's were never built for outright sound quality. However, ss has been stated, they were built for club use and are practically indestructible.
For me, and for less money, i would be looking at something like this...
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=essenti...
For me, and for less money, i would be looking at something like this...
http://www.project-audio.com/main.php?prod=essenti...
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