Is Hi-Fi dead

[loudlashadjuster]

kingston12 said:

I'd definitely agree that Sonos is a lot better than the mini/midi systems of 25 years ago, but it is also a lot more expensive in real terms.

You'd be surprised. Here's a scan from a 1988 Argos catalogue.



The Philips thing is a portable but is exactly what many laypersons would have considered a 'good hifi' in those days, but at £180 it cost the equivalent of over £450 in 2015 money! Hardly seems feasible, does it?

Even the cheapo Sanyo at £64.99 equates to about £160, coincidentally about the price of a Sonos Play 1. Now the cheapest Sonos is far from hifi, but you can imagine how it would stomp all over a tinny boombox from 1998.

And that's without even looking at the cost of pseudo-hifi stacks from Technics etc., they'd be much more, probably not far off a 1:1 in terms of price with today's pricier lifestyle kit from the likes of B&W.

You're right though in that the gap in price between consumer crap and real hifi was much greater in those days, and is probably effectively zero now, but even so it is quite obviously a hard sell if the drive to actually seek out better quality is missing.

Edited by loudlashadjuster on Thursday 12th November 17:33

[dmsims]

Apples and oranges ?

[bristolracer]

kingston12 said:

The problem with Sonos is the expense of the 'Connect' units that allow you to access the system through a proper system. £264 is too much for that in my opinion, and it only seems to have come down £15 in all the time it has been out.

Have you considered Gramofon?

https://gramofon.com/

[MarshPhantom]

I still play CDs, got an iPod with over 3000 tunes on, the problem I have is constantly thinking about what to listen to next.

[MarshPhantom]

sparkyhx said:

Can't say I've noticed a reduction in 'Hifi' shops, shops that sell stereo equipment yes.

No, but I bet Richer Sounds sell more TVs than HiFi seperates.

[craigjm]

I replaced all my kit with Ruark Audio kit in each room and I'm frankly amazed at the quality of the sound from such small units playing CD quality MP3's. I dont want huge equipment taking up loads of space anymore. My listening needs have changed and mostly now its out of the house in headphones or in the car.

[qube_TA]

loudlashadjuster said:

kingston12 said:

I'd definitely agree that Sonos is a lot better than the mini/midi systems of 25 years ago, but it is also a lot more expensive in real terms.

You'd be surprised. Here's a scan from a 1988 Argos catalogue.



The Philips thing is a portable but is exactly what many laypersons would have considered a 'good hifi' in those days, but at £180 it cost the equivalent of over £450 in 2015 money! Hardly seems feasible, does it?

Edited by loudlashadjuster on Thursday 12th November 17:33

No-one thought the Argos efforts would have been 'hi-fi', they were just cheap general consumer electronics. Yes they cost a lot compared to stuff now but an 80's Midi system would have set you back at least £500.

You'd be looking at those systems that are a single unit but designed to look like separates

My sister had one similar to this, certainly wasn't bought from a hi-fi shop:

[loudlashadjuster]

That's what I alluded to in the comment about Technics stacks and effective parity with 2015 pounds.

I'd also say that for a fair chunk of society, then as now, "hifi" is whatever box makes the music happen, regardless of its quality or provenance. They may be loosely aware of separates but have never experienced them, and may not even appreciate them if they did. This doesn't change their opinion of their system, it's still hifi.

These kind of people would never even think to question whether what they buy on the high street is actually worthy of the name. It is about the right size, has a recognisable brand on the front, the requisite marketing-led buttons and graphics, and makes sounds. Job done.

[bodhi]

bristolracer said:

Have you considered Gramofon?

https://gramofon.com/

Yes, but will it play my old 78's?

[legzr1]

qube_TA said:

Likewise, sad thing is I bought it as it matched the amp

I love the amp and it got good reviews but I just bought it without listening to one first.

I owned the K.I versions of the CD and PM 17 some years ago and have also owned a (non A) N50 pioneer streamer - still miss the Marantz pairing even though they struggled a little into large, multi-driver and low impedance floorstanders but they had a lush, easy to listen to quality into more sensible speakers (NOT ML electrostatics !!).

I'm actually seeking a DAC to add to a Cambridge SM6 to get back some warmth.

The Marantz were head and shoulders above anything the Pioneer delivered - I found it dull and shut-in as if the top end was being rolled off - perhaps the 'A' added some sparkle?

[sparkyhx]

MarshPhantom said:

sparkyhx said:

Can't say I've noticed a reduction in 'Hifi' shops, shops that sell stereo equipment yes.

No, but I bet Richer Sounds sell more TVs than HiFi seperates.

I wouldn't put Richer sounds in the 'Hifi shop' category - they are one of the 'stereo equipment' retailers and perhaps the only one to have really survived. Comet/Currys/Tandy were the main 'stereo equipment' people in the olden days, they don't really do separates these days or are out of business.

[qube_TA]

legzr1 said:

I owned the K.I versions of the CD and PM 17 some years ago and have also owned a (non A) N50 pioneer streamer - still miss the Marantz pairing even though they struggled a little into large, multi-driver and low impedance floorstanders but they had a lush, easy to listen to quality into more sensible speakers (NOT ML electrostatics !!).

I'm actually seeking a DAC to add to a Cambridge SM6 to get back some warmth.

The Marantz were head and shoulders above anything the Pioneer delivered - I found it dull and shut-in as if the top end was being rolled off - perhaps the 'A' added some sparkle?

Mine are the standard Mk1 models, they power a pair of B&W 603 floorstanders, the whole set-up is really quite old now but I enjoy the sound.

AFAIK the A was the same but had improved software to make it compatible with Spotify, not a service I use so can't comment if it's good at it.

There's various different modes to how it handles the media with upscaling and all that stuff, I find that if it's fed a 320kbps MP3 it sounds pretty much as good as a CD. I don't have a huge amount of love for digital formats as they're always overly dynamically compressed these days, but for convenience you can't beat having a ton of music available at a push of a button.

[Crackie]

sparkyhx said:

I wouldn't put Richer sounds in the 'Hifi shop' category - they are one of the 'stereo equipment' retailers.

They might sell TVs etc etc but their latest 851 series, if Hi-Fi News and Hi-Fi Choice reviews are to be believed, are 'high end' performers. Certainly not to be lumped in with Matsui / Itchyfanny 'stereo equipment'.

The Cambridge 600 series amps I've listened to sounded great and measured extremely well too.

[Monty Python]

sparkyhx said:

I wouldn't put Richer sounds in the 'Hifi shop' category - they are one of the 'stereo equipment' retailers and perhaps the only one to have really survived. Comet/Currys/Tandy were the main 'stereo equipment' people in the olden days, they don't really do separates these days or are out of business.

I'd certainly put the Roksan Caspian amp/Cd players, the Project RPM 9.2 and the Focal Aria speakers into the hi-fi category.

[sparkyhx]

Monty Python said:

sparkyhx said:

I wouldn't put Richer sounds in the 'Hifi shop' category - they are one of the 'stereo equipment' retailers and perhaps the only one to have really survived. Comet/Currys/Tandy were the main 'stereo equipment' people in the olden days, they don't really do separates these days or are out of business.

I'd certainly put the Roksan Caspian amp/Cd players, the Project RPM 9.2 and the Focal Aria speakers into the hi-fi category.

I'd still consider them a "pile it high" retailer who dabbles in some medium level items from a handful of major manufacturers. Many lines they do are end of life. They are not selling medium-high end niche products with extensive listening rooms. Anyway its largely irrelevant Richer, Superfi, Sevenoaks and Fanshaws are all pretty similar selling brands not products.

[Monty Python]

sparkyhx said:

I'd still consider them a "pile it high" retailer who dabbles in some medium level items from a handful of major manufacturers. Many lines they do are end of life. They are not selling medium-high end niche products with extensive listening rooms. Anyway its largely irrelevant Richer, Superfi, Sevenoaks and Fanshaws are all pretty similar selling brands not products.

Let's face it - when you're into the "high end" stuff, you don't tend to chop and change very frequently, so there are very few dealers who sell only the top end because they're not likely to sell much. RS may be a "pile it high" retailer, but it's a business model that works - sell loads of cheap stuff to support the more expensive.

[MarshPhantom]

Shocked to find no CD player in my new Vito.

I must be getting old.

[sparkyhx]

Monty Python said:

sparkyhx said:

I'd still consider them a "pile it high" retailer who dabbles in some medium level items from a handful of major manufacturers. Many lines they do are end of life. They are not selling medium-high end niche products with extensive listening rooms. Anyway its largely irrelevant Richer, Superfi, Sevenoaks and Fanshaws are all pretty similar selling brands not products.

Let's face it - when you're into the "high end" stuff, you don't tend to chop and change very frequently, so there are very few dealers who sell only the top end because they're not likely to sell much. RS may be a "pile it high" retailer, but it's a business model that works - sell loads of cheap stuff to support the more expensive.

I've nothing against them at all. I've bought stuff off them and would continue to do so, but equally I've bought from Hifi shops in the past and sat down in a room swapping in and out different options. The original point is that the 'high street' is now no longer around as it was 20 years ago, replaced by the likes of those I mentioned. All the specialist 'hifi' shops I've bought from in the past still exist, obviously some have gone by the wayside, but not to the same extent as the high street retailers who don't exist anymore or have pretty much stopped selling 'hifi' in favour of systems and digital stuff.

[Crackie]

sparkyhx said:

I'd still consider them a "pile it high" retailer who dabbles in some medium level items from a handful of major manufacturers. Many lines they do are end of life. They are not selling medium-high end niche products with extensive listening rooms. Anyway its largely irrelevant Richer, Superfi, Sevenoaks and Fanshaws are all pretty similar selling brands not products.

Agreed their shop facilities are usually pants but products like this are not entry level. https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/851/851w#r...

A slightly cynical view but high end is often just competent gear in a party frock.

[qube_TA]

Crackie said:

sparkyhx said:

I'd still consider them a "pile it high" retailer who dabbles in some medium level items from a handful of major manufacturers. Many lines they do are end of life. They are not selling medium-high end niche products with extensive listening rooms. Anyway its largely irrelevant Richer, Superfi, Sevenoaks and Fanshaws are all pretty similar selling brands not products.

Agreed their shop facilities are usually pants but products like this are not entry level. https://www.cambridgeaudio.com/products/851/851w#r...

A slightly cynical view but high end is often just competent gear in a party frock.

The first bit of hi-hi I bought was from Richer, a NAD 7020 receiver


I thought it was killer back then Powered a pair of Wharfdale Delta 30's (which I swapped later for some Celestion 7's) and a Pioneer PL112d turntable, all bar the turntable I bought from Richer.