Is Hi-Fi dead

[toon10]

mackie1 said:

Really interesting presentation dispelling some myths I believed until recently:

https://xiph.org/video/vid2.shtml

Back on topic. Is it dead? Well the premium headphone market has grown massively. OK, it's owned by Beats and Bose right now but their products are OK, if somewhat overpriced. Philips deserve a much larger share, shame they aren't "cool"

I recently spent a couple of hundred on a headphone/amp+dac combo (Fiio Q1 + Fidelio X2) and I've never heard my music sound this good before. The fact you can have such amazing fidelity for such sensible outlay is fantastic and makes it accessible to pretty much all.

Any headphone geeks on here? I keep on eyeing up $500+ headphones and the Chord Mojo.

I have a bit of a thing for headphones. Got some Bayerdynamic DT's for home use and B&W P5's for everything else. For the price, nothing came close. I had some Senn's for 3 days before getting my money back and getting the P5's. I did try some Grado's which were superb but kind of pointless as they were open backed and everyone could hear what you're bopping along too. I use my iPhone a lot for music (alongside my Hi-Fi setup) so was thinking of getting a slimline DAC+amp that would work with the phone but not looked into what's good and what's not.

[dmsims]

mackie1 said:

Well the premium headphone market has grown massively. OK, it's owned by Beats and Bose right now but their products are OK, if somewhat overpriced. Philips deserve a much larger share, shame they aren't "cool"

I am going to fix that quote

Well the premium headphone market has grown massively. OK, it's owned by Audeze and Hifiman right now but their products are amazing not like the rubbish that is Beats and Bose

[kingston12]

toon10 said:

I have a bit of a thing for headphones. Got some Bayerdynamic DT's for home use and B&W P5's for everything else. For the price, nothing came close. I had some Senn's for 3 days before getting my money back and getting the P5's. I did try some Grado's which were superb but kind of pointless as they were open backed and everyone could hear what you're bopping along too. I use my iPhone a lot for music (alongside my Hi-Fi setup) so was thinking of getting a slimline DAC+amp that would work with the phone but not looked into what's good and what's not.

Chord Mojo is apparently the one to beat. I haven't tried it yet as I recently bought an Oppo HA-2 and a pair of their PM-3 headphones. A brilliant combination for me, and definitely the best 'on-the-go' set up I have owned but the headphones themselves are very big compared to something like the P5.

[toon10]

kingston12 said:

Chord Mojo is apparently the one to beat. I haven't tried it yet as I recently bought an Oppo HA-2 and a pair of their PM-3 headphones. A brilliant combination for me, and definitely the best 'on-the-go' set up I have owned but the headphones themselves are very big compared to something like the P5.

I think I'll have to do some research. I love my P5's so whatever I get would have to compliment those. The P7's are great too but just a bit too big for when I'm travelling. There's lots of places on the high street to test headphones but I've not seen many DAC's available to test. How do people test these or do they just go off reviews?

Seems this thread is costing me money. Off to browse the net for Chord Mojo and alternatives!

[mackie1]

dmsims said:

I am going to fix that quote

Well the premium headphone market has grown massively. OK, it's owned by Audeze and Hifiman right now but their products are amazing not like the rubbish that is Beats and Bose

I was talking about market share. Ofcourse the manufacturers that "own it" are the the ones you describe (along with Sennheiser, Stax etc etc). I guess the point I was making is that people seem to be willing to spend on headphones these days, they're just going for fashionable (and only OK) kit right now. Maybe that will change in time.

[mackie1]

toon10 said:

I think I'll have to do some research. I love my P5's so whatever I get would have to compliment those. The P7's are great too but just a bit too big for when I'm travelling. There's lots of places on the high street to test headphones but I've not seen many DAC's available to test. How do people test these or do they just go off reviews?

Seems this thread is costing me money. Off to browse the net for Chord Mojo and alternatives!

I bought the Q1 on feature set and price. I was originally looking at an Oppo HA-2 and Sennheiser HD600 combo but went with the cheaper Fiio Q1 and Fidelio X2 combo to ease myself in.

For ultimate portability the HA-2 has it. If I was spending more than that I think I'd want to hear it first. If you find anywhere that can do Mojo auditions then I'm (if you pardon the pun) all ears.

I also have some Sony MDR-1ABTs for office/portable use and I tend to use those wirelessly using their proprietary lossless bluetooth codec. Pretty impressive sound for a little internal amp. 30h battery life too!

[bristolracer]

mackie1 said:

I guess the point I was making is that people seem to be willing to spend on headphones these days, they're just going for fashionable (and only OK) kit right now.

Most of them have overpriced gear plugged into devices playing music at mp3 quality.
I also suspect there are many listening on ebay fake beats/bose stuff. All show and no go.

[mackie1]

Yeah it's a shame that people are willing to stump up for fashion but don't know what they're missing re audio quality. I guess many don't care but many probably don't even realise what's possible.

[The_Burg]

mackie1 said:

Yeah it's a shame that people are willing to stump up for fashion but don't know what they're missing re audio quality. I guess many don't care but many probably don't even realise what's possible.

Apple syndrome, some folk believe the appalling iEarPhones are actually OK. For the ridiculous cost of an iPhone you think they could do a deal with Sennheiser or someone who actually make decent ones for low prices.

[theboss]

The_Burg said:

mackie1 said:

Yeah it's a shame that people are willing to stump up for fashion but don't know what they're missing re audio quality. I guess many don't care but many probably don't even realise what's possible.

Apple syndrome, some folk believe the appalling iEarPhones are actually OK. For the ridiculous cost of an iPhone you think they could do a deal with Sennheiser or someone who actually make decent ones for low prices.

What's the point - I use IE800's with my iPhone and it still sounds st! It's okay using an external DAC/amp with a laptop but sometimes I really don't want to carry any more than my phone around. It'll be interesting to see what happens if/when they abolish the 3.5mm analogue jack and force the use of a discreet DAC/amp stage connected by lightning.

[mackie1]

I was under the impression that your typical iDevice analog output was of pretty high quality in general. Now apple own Beats they're even less likely to bundle decent earphones I'd have thought.

[theboss]

On the contrary I've always thought Apple phones sound very poor - currently I'm using an iPhone 6+ and before that a 5S. For comparison the analogue headphone jack on my iPad Air is better, my 15" retina MBP sounds miles better than both and I keep a Meridian Explorer in my case which sounds better still (with the laptop).

I'm going to pick up a Mojo and the iPhone adapter I think. I listened to the IE800 through my stepfather's Hugo once and was totally blown away.

[toon10]

I'm looking into some FiiO E11's as a cheap intro to the world of headphone amps. It means I can also charge it a work on my laptop.

[bodhi]

theboss said:

On the contrary I've always thought Apple phones sound very poor - currently I'm using an iPhone 6+ and before that a 5S. For comparison the analogue headphone jack on my iPad Air is better, my 15" retina MBP sounds miles better than both and I keep a Meridian Explorer in my case which sounds better still (with the laptop).

I'm going to pick up a Mojo and the iPhone adapter I think. I listened to the IE800 through my stepfather's Hugo once and was totally blown away.

It's not just the phone, ime this goes all the way back to the iPod, and their uncanny ability to sound like the speakers have been placed under a pillow when connected up to any decent sort of system. One of the many reasons I've given their kit a wide berth.

[theboss]

bodhi said:

theboss said:

On the contrary I've always thought Apple phones sound very poor - currently I'm using an iPhone 6+ and before that a 5S. For comparison the analogue headphone jack on my iPad Air is better, my 15" retina MBP sounds miles better than both and I keep a Meridian Explorer in my case which sounds better still (with the laptop).

I'm going to pick up a Mojo and the iPhone adapter I think. I listened to the IE800 through my stepfather's Hugo once and was totally blown away.

It's not just the phone, ime this goes all the way back to the iPod, and their uncanny ability to sound like the speakers have been placed under a pillow when connected up to any decent sort of system. One of the many reasons I've given their kit a wide berth.

Fair enough - I don't really expect any smartphone to have a high quality analogue audio stage [compared to proper headphone DAC/amps] so it's not really a priority when choosing one - and whatever my personal preference, I have a whole household now using Apple devices and consuming shared apps/media so feel it would be a nightmare trying to change ecosystems.

What I'd really like is a snap-on iPhone 6S+ amp/DAC rather like the Arcam music boost but for the larger phone, with Mojo level sound quality and no doubt 6 times the cost.

[benz0]

Lg g4 sound quality is excellent to my ears.

[InductionRoar]

mackie1 said:

Any headphone geeks on here? I keep on eyeing up $500+ headphones and the Chord Mojo.

Not a geek but I use Grado RS1s through a Pathos Aurium.

Sounds nice and warm with a good level of detail but doesn't get much use to be honest. I generally listen to the speakers in preference to waiting for the headphone amp to warm up properly.

Looks pretty though.

[Crackie]

mackie1 said:

I was under the impression that your typical iDevice analog output was of pretty high quality in general.

I was under that impression too..........

I've never owned any Apple gear but have often used a 5 or 5S as an analogue source; in my experience sound quality from the line out stage is extremely good. I agree that the apple earphones are pants but, imho, the line stage is superb if the file compression is kept to a minimum.

Here is a review of an IPhone5 which includes some objective measurements rather than subjective anecdotal opinion. http://www.kenrockwell.com/apple/iphone-5/audio-qu... .

Output impedance, jitter, THD, dynamic range are good full stop not just good for a phone. Residual noise is very low ( battery power ). With the exception of the relatively low maximum output voltage, this is a very good measurement set.

Edited by Crackie on Thursday 10th March 19:55

[theboss]

Maybe it is good relative to other phones/portables - but I find it distinctly dissatisfying compared to just about any other headphone output I use regularly, which includes my Apple laptop as well as kit with 'decent' headphone stages (Meridian Explorer, Linn ADSM, Sennheiser HDVD800).

I'm picking up a Mojo tomorrow so will try that. I'm sure partnered with the iPhone via USB it will be brilliant.

Everything I'm listening to is either ALAC or high bitrate AAC.

Edited by theboss on Thursday 10th March 18:58

[gizlaroc]

The problem with the iPhone is the output level, it just can't drive 99% of headphones properly.

But try a Westone W40 or W60 on an iPhone and it will impress.