Bi Amp & Bi Wire Question

[Red 5]

Yes Mike,
You need two amps (producing power) to Bi-Amp in any shape or form. (There is no 'sort of' bi-amp or 'true' bi-amp)

This, along with four cores (two runs) of speaker cable to each speaker :-)

Search for another Arcam power amp (similar vintage would be best)
Check the spec to make sure the gain is the same, or one will play slightly louder than the other!

[jamesh764]

StuntmanMike said:

Yes your right, this comes from drinking on a empty head.
I have a Delta 290 integrated amp and a Delta 290 power amp, If I am understanding this thread correctly to truly bi amp I would have to have two 290 power amps?

The Delta 290 integrated is effectively a pre-amp and power amp "integrated" into one box.

Therefore you have two sets of power amplifiers - one standalone and one built in to the integrated amp. If you connect the preamplifier out terminals from your integrated amplifier to the power amp in terminals on your power amplifier, and then run speaker cables from the bass terminals on your speakers to one amp, and the treble terminals to the other (having removed the links on the speakers first) then you will be bi-amping.

[NDA]

Red 5 said:

Yes Mike,
You need two amps (producing power) to Bi-Amp in any shape or form. (There is no 'sort of' bi-amp or 'true' bi-amp)

This, along with four cores (two runs) of speaker cable to each speaker :-)

Search for another Arcam power amp (similar vintage would be best)
Check the spec to make sure the gain is the same, or one will play slightly louder than the other!

^ this.

I run mono block amps rather than bi-amping. A few years ago I tried try-amping, it was a lot of fuss and I ran for a couple of years this way. Eventually changed speakers (to Ruarks as it happens) and run one amp for left and one for right - it sounds good to my tired old ears.

[Red 5]

NDA said:

Red 5 said:

Yes Mike,
You need two amps (producing power) to Bi-Amp in any shape or form. (There is no 'sort of' bi-amp or 'true' bi-amp)

This, along with four cores (two runs) of speaker cable to each speaker :-)

Search for another Arcam power amp (similar vintage would be best)
Check the spec to make sure the gain is the same, or one will play slightly louder than the other!

^ this.

I run mono block amps rather than bi-amping. A few years ago I tried try-amping, it was a lot of fuss and I ran for a couple of years this way. Eventually changed speakers (to Ruarks as it happens) and run one amp for left and one for right - it sounds good to my tired old ears.

I don't think either is a fuss or tricky in any way. It all comes down to the quality of the products used, as to the results you achieved.
Running a Monoblock system just means you have cleanly seperate L / R sides, each with their own individual power supplies. So a 50w mono feed should be better than the same power from a single chassis (if they were the same quality)

Running a Monoblock system doesn't preclude you from upgrading to a Bi-Amp set up though!
Two mono amp chassis per speaker can still be a huge upgrade from where you are now. :-)

So a Monoblock system isn't like, or even instead, of a Bi-amp configuration. It's actually like using a very good single stereo power amp. (One output per speaker)
As your speakers have seperatable HF/LF (four posts on the back) you can still upgrade :-)

The only time this isn't possible, is if your chosen brand of speaker don't like that approach to their X-over. So a Dynaudio speaker for example, only has a singe set of + / - on the back. So you can't use two / four more affordable amps to bi-amp.

If you want lots of high quality power into those, you'll spend more!

[Red 5]

NDA said:

Red 5 said:

Yes Mike,
You need two amps (producing power) to Bi-Amp in any shape or form. (There is no 'sort of' bi-amp or 'true' bi-amp)

This, along with four cores (two runs) of speaker cable to each speaker :-)

Search for another Arcam power amp (similar vintage would be best)
Check the spec to make sure the gain is the same, or one will play slightly louder than the other!

^ this.

I run mono block amps rather than bi-amping. A few years ago I tried try-amping, it was a lot of fuss and I ran for a couple of years this way. Eventually changed speakers (to Ruarks as it happens) and run one amp for left and one for right - it sounds good to my tired old ears.

I don't think either is a fuss or tricky in any way. It all comes down to the quality of the products used, as to the results you achieved.
Running a Monoblock system just means you have cleanly seperate L / R sides, each with their own individual power supplies. So a 50w mono feed should be better than the same power from a single chassis (if they were the same quality)

Running a Monoblock system doesn't preclude you from upgrading to a Bi-Amp set up though!
Two mono amp chassis per speaker can still be a huge upgrade from where you are now. :-)

So a Monoblock system isn't like, or even instead, of a Bi-amp configuration. It's actually like using a very good single stereo power amp. (One output per speaker)
As your speakers have seperatable HF/LF (four posts on the back) you can still upgrade :-)

The only time this isn't possible, is if your chosen brand of speaker don't like that approach to their X-over. So a Dynaudio speaker for example, only has a singe set of + / - on the back. So you can't use two / four more affordable amps to bi-amp.

If you want lots of high quality power into those, you'll spend more!

Edited by Red 5 on Monday 5th October 07:10

[NDA]

I'm not sure I'd go to the trouble these days.... I used to be very keen.

It was a bit of a fuss running tri-amps partly because I used different grades of cable for each drive unit. The cables running to the speakers were massive - as were the speakers. I had a very understanding girlfriend at the time.

I also tried different combinations of mono block bass units, bi-amped tweeters etc etc. Spent hours listening for various nuances.

I'm very happy with my Ruarks by the way - lovely speakers and beautifully made.

[StuntmanMike]

Thanks for the replies, I may play around with the wiring next weekend, as for a second power Amp we will see what Mr Ebay has to say on it.

[lostmotel]

Can't see if this has been raised, but the setup you have at the moment is called passive bi-amping. In this setup, you're providing the full range signal to each power amp, which is getting amplified and then subsequently sent to the HF and LF sections of the speakers' crossovers. There's a lot of FUD out there about the possible merits of the setup, and whether it's a waste of power or "cleans up the sound" etc. I've auditioned an Arcam P85 bolted to my A85 and didn't really hear much difference.

The most sensible advice seems to be to put all the money into a better integrated (so in my case - if I had the money - an Arcam FMJ A29 rather than A85 + P85), or go all out and go for an active bi-amp system where the crossover is implemented before the amplification. Linn Aktiv's system does this, but I think you have to buy into the whole Linn thing, at least for your amplification and speakers.

[StuntmanMike]

lostmotel said:

Can't see if this has been raised, but the setup you have at the moment is called passive bi-amping. In this setup, you're providing the full range signal to each power amp, which is getting amplified and then subsequently sent to the HF and LF sections of the speakers' crossovers. There's a lot of FUD out there about the possible merits of the setup, and whether it's a waste of power or "cleans up the sound" etc. I've auditioned an Arcam P85 bolted to my A85 and didn't really hear much difference.

The most sensible advice seems to be to put all the money into a better integrated (so in my case - if I had the money - an Arcam FMJ A29 rather than A85 + P85), or go all out and go for an active bi-amp system where the crossover is implemented before the amplification. Linn Aktiv's system does this, but I think you have to buy into the whole Linn thing, at least for your amplification and speakers.

You make a good point, the addition of a DAC to my CD player made far more of a difference than adding a power amp.
Adding a power amp sounds a little bigger but that's it, I do think the B&W speakers I have seem to be happier with a power amp, I don't quite think the single integrated one was quite up to the job.
Adding a DAC made a huge difference and its only an old Cambridge Audio Dacmagic 11.