Warm sounding AV receiver?
Discussion
PTE993 said:
Depending on your budget I would look at the Arcam. I was about to buy the Marantz myself and then listened to the new Arcam kit and I was blown away. Mainly this was down to their use of Dirac EQ. Compared to the Denon I've used for years plus a recent test of the Pioneer offerings the Arcam was superior. Warmer, more detailed, controlled...whatever superlatives you want to use really. I ended up spending more than I had budgeted for but I have no regrets. Not an Arcam fanboy by the way. Loved my Denon for years but this was something else.
This. Totally.wormus said:
Thanks guys, is the Yamaha really comparable or better than the Marantz for sound? There's quite a big difference in price for the 2 models mentioned and a quality 5.1 system that's great with stereo hifi is more important than bells and whistles, Atmos etc. My system is used every day, all day for TV, film and music. Music is probably the most important.
The Yammy 1050 I was talking about is the same price at the Marantz sr7010, I think the Marantz retails at £1200 and the Yammy £1000, both can be had for around £900. The other one I really like is the Nad T758, really nice sound, a bit more hifi than many other, if a bit more basic on features.
Sevenoaks have them down at £599 and £699 a the mo too.
http://www.sevenoakssoundandvision.co.uk/c-118-avr...
Yamaha AS700 here driving Tannoy Mercury F4 Custom floorstanders. Nice and neutral sound from this combo, big soundstage and quite detailed. Not clinical like some but Iisten through it for hours at the weekend while ironing etc. I'm sure they do an AV equivalent.
Edited by checkmate91 on Monday 18th April 08:43
Ok, thanks for all the advice. After lots of careful consideration and a conversation with the wife, I'm off to Sevenoaks tomorrow to get a Yamaha RX-A1050 Aventage. Everything I've read about my speakers is they reward better quality equipment so fingers crossed!
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 16th April 12:05
Yamaha RX-V765 here...... I use the through option to my Rokasan Caspian 3 stereo amp for powering my floor standing Monitor Audio Silver 5i's
I got the Yamaha cheap as they had just bought out a new model, I had gone to the shop to look a model lower down then range (again end of line and v cheap) which they had sold out of despite assuring me on the phone they had (shop 30 miles from where I live), the manager came out and tried to sell me some Denon stuff but it didn't have the through option which I wanted... ended up with the Yamaha at the same price as what I'd initially gone to look at...
Ok mines an old model now, but if you like your speakers invest in decent stereo amp, and av with through on it
I got the Yamaha cheap as they had just bought out a new model, I had gone to the shop to look a model lower down then range (again end of line and v cheap) which they had sold out of despite assuring me on the phone they had (shop 30 miles from where I live), the manager came out and tried to sell me some Denon stuff but it didn't have the through option which I wanted... ended up with the Yamaha at the same price as what I'd initially gone to look at...
Ok mines an old model now, but if you like your speakers invest in decent stereo amp, and av with through on it
Well I picked my new toy up today. Plugged in all the wires, ran the automatic set up and tried some music. All I can say is WOW, this thing makes my old Sony sound like a transistor radio. Sound is punchy, warm and yet sooooo detailed. Interestingly it set all my speakers to large and I set them to small on my Sony because the sound and bass was so flat. Watched world war Z and the gun shots had me diving for cover. My speakers absolutely sing and the surround is out of this world. What a difference! You absolutely 100% should consider one of these amps, they are unbelievable!
.....oh and it looks great too. I'm one happy chappy!
.....oh and it looks great too. I'm one happy chappy!
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 16th April 18:14
Most surprising thing is the way the speakers have reacted. Complete personality change, gone from OK to fantastic sounding. Taut bass, punchy mid range and sparking top end. They sound as good as all the reviews said they should and I just want to sit down and listen. Really chuffed! 
Edited by anonymous-user on Saturday 16th April 22:09
I always spend more on the amps than speakers, around 2-4x as much, have done it the other way but never works as well.
You need power to get the speakers singing.
We were playing around with some Mission 731le speakers at Arcam a few years back, these were £99 at Richer Sounds at the time. We rewired them internally with some very high end Audioquest cable, sounded a bit smoother, and actually really nice on an Alpha 7 amp.
We then put them on an Alpha 9 amp and they sounded pretty amazing.
Then we bi amped them with two Alpha 10 power amps, and they sounded unreal, a hell of a lot better than the acclaimed 751 sitting on an Alpha 9 amp.
Of course most people won't stick £3k worth of amps on £99 speakers, but I am amazed at how many seem to buy £1000 speakers and shove a £400 amp on them, when you hear them you just know how shut in they are sounding.
The last time I had passive speakers I ran Dunlavey, and I ran them bridged from a Cinepro 3K6, it is a 6 channel amp which can put out 3000 watts with all speakers driven, 425w per channel. I however ran it in bridged mode giving my front 3 speakers 1200watts each.
The dynamics on that system were still the best I have heard with the exception of one other system, James Soanes from Oppo, who ran the bigger Dunlavey speakers and upgraded from the Cinepro to Mark Levison Monoblocks.
But that system used to make you hold your breathe at times, it made 2 people cry and everyone who heard it was stunned.
Amplification is everything imho.
I'm sure if you added a power amp to that Yamaha at a later date you would take it to the next level, bigger sound stage, deeper more controlled bass and the more power you give it the smoother it sounds.
People always used to say "Why do you need 1200 watts, my amp with 110w goes really loud?"
Yeah it does, but think how good your music sounds when you are listening at night, when everything is quiet, you probably play it at -25 rather than -17db, so less than half the volume, and it sounds superb, never shrill, always controlled, great soundstage. It is nice when it sounds exactly like that but at 3 time the volume. I could only tell how loud it was when I wasn't in the room, and my wife never said "Turn it down a bit" which I think tells you a lot about how clean a system sounds. Not enough power means it needs to be cranked up to sound good, but when you crank it up it starts to sound shrill, being able to sound the same at all volumes, that's what more power brings you.
You need power to get the speakers singing.
We were playing around with some Mission 731le speakers at Arcam a few years back, these were £99 at Richer Sounds at the time. We rewired them internally with some very high end Audioquest cable, sounded a bit smoother, and actually really nice on an Alpha 7 amp.
We then put them on an Alpha 9 amp and they sounded pretty amazing.
Then we bi amped them with two Alpha 10 power amps, and they sounded unreal, a hell of a lot better than the acclaimed 751 sitting on an Alpha 9 amp.
Of course most people won't stick £3k worth of amps on £99 speakers, but I am amazed at how many seem to buy £1000 speakers and shove a £400 amp on them, when you hear them you just know how shut in they are sounding.
The last time I had passive speakers I ran Dunlavey, and I ran them bridged from a Cinepro 3K6, it is a 6 channel amp which can put out 3000 watts with all speakers driven, 425w per channel. I however ran it in bridged mode giving my front 3 speakers 1200watts each.
The dynamics on that system were still the best I have heard with the exception of one other system, James Soanes from Oppo, who ran the bigger Dunlavey speakers and upgraded from the Cinepro to Mark Levison Monoblocks.
But that system used to make you hold your breathe at times, it made 2 people cry and everyone who heard it was stunned.
Amplification is everything imho.
I'm sure if you added a power amp to that Yamaha at a later date you would take it to the next level, bigger sound stage, deeper more controlled bass and the more power you give it the smoother it sounds.
People always used to say "Why do you need 1200 watts, my amp with 110w goes really loud?"
Yeah it does, but think how good your music sounds when you are listening at night, when everything is quiet, you probably play it at -25 rather than -17db, so less than half the volume, and it sounds superb, never shrill, always controlled, great soundstage. It is nice when it sounds exactly like that but at 3 time the volume. I could only tell how loud it was when I wasn't in the room, and my wife never said "Turn it down a bit" which I think tells you a lot about how clean a system sounds. Not enough power means it needs to be cranked up to sound good, but when you crank it up it starts to sound shrill, being able to sound the same at all volumes, that's what more power brings you.
Hi Wormus, pleased that you're enjoying your Yamamha amp 
Hi Gizlaroc, I missed the last few posts on this thread first time round, apologies for the resurrection.
Interesting, I always spend a lot more on the speakers than amps...... usually5-10x as much. Impulse H2s driven by a 25w Cyrus One amp in dining room, Duntech Marquis driven by 60w Yamaha 377 on the TV and a big custom built active system driven by, a relatively low cost, 250w of Rotel power per driver.
Hi Gizlaroc, I missed the last few posts on this thread first time round, apologies for the resurrection.
gizlaroc said:
I always spend more on the amps than speakers, around 2-4x as much, have done it the other way but never works as well. You need power to get the speakers singing.
Interesting, I always spend a lot more on the speakers than amps...... usually5-10x as much. Impulse H2s driven by a 25w Cyrus One amp in dining room, Duntech Marquis driven by 60w Yamaha 377 on the TV and a big custom built active system driven by, a relatively low cost, 250w of Rotel power per driver. gizlaroc said:
Amplification is everything imho. I'm sure if you added a power amp to that Yamaha at a later date you would take it to the next level, bigger sound stage, deeper more controlled bass and the more power you give it the smoother it sounds.
Amplification can be very important but the speaker load is a huge factor when looking at the amps influence; surely it is generalising to say "the more power you give it the smoother it sounds." Early B&W 801s or 802s are notoriously difficult to drive; its not hard to understand why if you take a look at their impedance, phase and EPDR measurements. Extremely load tolerant amps are needed to make those 802s and 802s perform well. Alternatively, if you choose speakers with a relatively benign loads then amp performance is less of a factor. There are many horn speaker advocates who follow the 'high efficiency speaker + low amp power' route and their systems are also capable of startling dynamics and genuinely realistic ( ~ 120db ) SPLs. gizlaroc said:
People always used to say "Why do you need 1200 watts, my amp with 110w goes really loud?"
Yeah it does, but think how good your music sounds when you are listening at night, when everything is quiet, you probably play it at -25 rather than -17db, so less than half the volume, and it sounds superb, never shrill, always controlled, great soundstage.
Most people appreciate that their system sounds best in the wee small hours but in my experience this is due to far cleaner mains supply and much lower electrical noise floor at that time, nothing to do amplifier power per se. Extra watts are no indicator of good sound quality. How many more stars can you see at night when you're out in the middle of nowhere and there is no light pollution? Listening at 3.00am is similar; ambient clues, notes decaying, subtle background noises and playing techniques are revealed anew in the early hours. The fadeout of familiar tracks goes on for 5 or so seconds longer...........the amp is running fractions of a milliwatt at that point; big power is irrelevant then. THD, SNR, IMD, power supply noise rejection, output impedance are all very important factors.Yeah it does, but think how good your music sounds when you are listening at night, when everything is quiet, you probably play it at -25 rather than -17db, so less than half the volume, and it sounds superb, never shrill, always controlled, great soundstage.
Edited by Crackie on Monday 23 May 09:05
Crackie said:
Stuff...
Don't disagree with any of what you said, but you are talking about H2s which are so easy to drive.The majority of 'everyday' set ups can always benefit from a decent amp with enough power to allow the speakers to breathe.
What you say about at night is also true, but my example still stands.
Rather than use the example at night then, in a car is a good one, someone gets their set up sounding sweet, they want more, often people want to upgrade speakers, however, upgrading the amp tends to bring better gains. It isn't how much louder it goes, but how much more control there is when playing at the level you want to play at.
I have had this argument for years with audio guys, not that I think it is an argument, there are different ways of going about it, both can work, however, my point is, I would say that 90% of the systems I hear which are a bit lacking it is the amp that lets them down, people have bought some pretty high end speakers compared with the amp they have driving them.
Anyway, I went Meridian DSP, and would find it very hard to move back now.
Gassing Station | Home Cinema & Hi-Fi | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff