Plasma / LED - why do people put up with it?
Discussion
gizlaroc said:
I think the problem with most LCDs is just how bright they can go, which means they tend to be cranked up in stores and often people don't set them properly when they get them home.
You can calibrate an LCD to look very natural, but it often means a lot of the settings are much lower than on a plasma.
Y'know in all fairness I dont know I've spent much time looking at LCD sets I know for a fact have been properly calibrated, although I tend to run my telly slightly more muted than the norm anyway, I find most bright light distracting/fatiguing.You can calibrate an LCD to look very natural, but it often means a lot of the settings are much lower than on a plasma.
hairyben said:
Y'know in all fairness I dont know I've spent much time looking at LCD sets I know for a fact have been properly calibrated, although I tend to run my telly slightly more muted than the norm anyway, I find most bright light distracting/fatiguing.
Yeah I run mine undersaturated. I like a very natural look to the image. However, I do like it to be able to get the scene right, and if that is say a snow scene I want it to be able to handle it, which most plasmas can't, they simply can't show a 100% white screen without reducing the overall drive of the screen. It is not about making an over bright image, it is about dynamic range and being able to to do certain screens. I had a few guys from avforums over and we compared the Pioneer 5090 with the Sony W905 and a lot of them were really surprised at just how good the Sony was.
There are not many LCDs I don't like though, but then many I have given up on before getting it 'right'. Problem I find is when I calibrate them it looks too bright, I have to manually calm it down to get it looking like a phosphor based display.
cheddar said:
Even my local Panasonic dealer recommended that I repair my broken GT50 rather than try and sell me a new TV, he still thinks there's no better picture quality than the last of the high end Panasonic plasmas
How long until OLED/whatever surpasses plasma?
OLED is already better than plasma. How long until OLED/whatever surpasses plasma?
cheddar said:
Even my local Panasonic dealer recommended that I repair my broken GT50 rather than try and sell me a new TV, he still thinks there's no better picture quality than the last of the high end Panasonic plasmas
How long until OLED/whatever surpasses plasma?
Already happened last year with the LG/Panasonic which surpassed even the ZT Pannies plasmas in most people's eyes.How long until OLED/whatever surpasses plasma?
This year LG have upped their game and Loewe have joined the party.
Go have a look at some of the NASA demo stuff in 4K HDR.
legzr1 said:
Already happened last year with the LG/Panasonic which surpassed even the ZT Pannies plasmas in most people's eyes.
This year LG have upped their game and Loewe have joined the party.
Go have a look at some of the NASA demo stuff in 4K HDR.
Noted, thanks to both above, I'm a bit out of touchThis year LG have upped their game and Loewe have joined the party.
Go have a look at some of the NASA demo stuff in 4K HDR.
So, how far will prices fall? Only a couple of years ago the high end OLED's were £6k+, now they're less than half that, will we see top quality 50"/60" 4k/OLED tv's for under £1k soon?
cheddar said:
Noted, thanks to both above, I'm a bit out of touch
So, how far will prices fall? Only a couple of years ago the high end OLED's were £6k+, now they're less than half that, will we see top quality 50"/60" 4k/OLED tv's for under £1k soon?
Probably. So, how far will prices fall? Only a couple of years ago the high end OLED's were £6k+, now they're less than half that, will we see top quality 50"/60" 4k/OLED tv's for under £1k soon?
Plasmas went from £10k for a non full-hd 40" panel to sub £1k for a decent 1080 50" set in a very short time, 5 years or so.
After enjoying my old, I'm guessing about 15 years give or take, B&O 32" CRT TV I have just bought an LG OLED.
About 8 or so years ago I did buy whatever was the top of the line according to AV forums Panasonic Plasma 42 and didn't have a great experience, The set obviously had HD and deeper blacks but was inconsistent overall. I had it set up next to the B&O which had a very pleasing picture, I could get the Plasma to match and then if I change channel from a film say, to a news channel, it was awful compared to the very forgiving B&O, especially skin tones, faces looked 3 dimensional but on the Plasma faces looked flat and plastic. However, maybe I had a faulty set as there was a 1mm line down the screen about 1/4 of the way in, so I sent it back.
Looking at friend's LCDs skin tones (I accept the screens may not have been set up properly), never impressed so when when the tube went pop in The B&O I did buy an LCD, not an expensive one, but it was awful so spent £600 on a new tube for the B&O. Another factor was the great built in sound quality of the B&O, all of the flat panels were, unsurprisingly, bad, without bolting on bars....
I do have a home cinema system with a Sim2 projector for the full experience but have been watching more films casually and the 32 SD is a bit lacking, so thought I take a chance on a new TV. So after lots of research OLED sounded right up my street. I never looked at one in a store so just read all the reviews. The conclusion was something like a 55 E6 would be great for me, all of the problems with the older models sounded like they had been more or less cured, but didn't fancy the price tag.
So I thought I'd take a gamble on one of the older models as a stop gap and perhaps the reviewers were being ultra critical and maybe for every day casual viewing I could live with the negatives of banding, crushed dark detail near the blacks, vignetting etc. So I had my eye on the 55 LG930V at John Lewis as the price dropped, from £1299 to £1099, I thought it might go down another £100, but every day I checked stock, more than 10 in stock, 10 in stock, next day it said 8 in stock so I pressed the button....
.... Out of the box with factory settings it wasn't that nice, but I expected that. However, after adjusting the settings I have to say I'm very pleased with the picture. Interestingly, I am not experiencing any of the problems I was expecting, no banding, no vignetting and detail is held in very dark areas just above black. Also interesting that some of the settings previously on at default (according to reviews) are now switched off, so i wonder if the engineers at LG were looking at solutions to the criticisms during it's manufacturing cycle and the later models received some tweaks... or maybe I just got lucky....
I wasn't bothered about 4k, my old Sim2 is only 720P and will project a very nice image to 100". If I was to go for a 65"+ TV i would consider 4k but I don't sit 2' away from the screen and not sure I want a TV that big dominating the lounge so am looking at a new projector for big screen viewing.
So all in all I think I bagged a bargain, The blacks are black
and even the sound is better than expected for casual viewing. SD is ugly though, I wish there was a setting to show the picture at pixel to pixel rather than upscaling. The screen has a curve, not something I particularly wanted, but it is subtle and the design quite elegant. It will do for now, but will be interesting how things pan out and technologies progress, I will be very interested in what Loewe bring out...
YMMV...
About 8 or so years ago I did buy whatever was the top of the line according to AV forums Panasonic Plasma 42 and didn't have a great experience, The set obviously had HD and deeper blacks but was inconsistent overall. I had it set up next to the B&O which had a very pleasing picture, I could get the Plasma to match and then if I change channel from a film say, to a news channel, it was awful compared to the very forgiving B&O, especially skin tones, faces looked 3 dimensional but on the Plasma faces looked flat and plastic. However, maybe I had a faulty set as there was a 1mm line down the screen about 1/4 of the way in, so I sent it back.
Looking at friend's LCDs skin tones (I accept the screens may not have been set up properly), never impressed so when when the tube went pop in The B&O I did buy an LCD, not an expensive one, but it was awful so spent £600 on a new tube for the B&O. Another factor was the great built in sound quality of the B&O, all of the flat panels were, unsurprisingly, bad, without bolting on bars....
I do have a home cinema system with a Sim2 projector for the full experience but have been watching more films casually and the 32 SD is a bit lacking, so thought I take a chance on a new TV. So after lots of research OLED sounded right up my street. I never looked at one in a store so just read all the reviews. The conclusion was something like a 55 E6 would be great for me, all of the problems with the older models sounded like they had been more or less cured, but didn't fancy the price tag.
So I thought I'd take a gamble on one of the older models as a stop gap and perhaps the reviewers were being ultra critical and maybe for every day casual viewing I could live with the negatives of banding, crushed dark detail near the blacks, vignetting etc. So I had my eye on the 55 LG930V at John Lewis as the price dropped, from £1299 to £1099, I thought it might go down another £100, but every day I checked stock, more than 10 in stock, 10 in stock, next day it said 8 in stock so I pressed the button....
.... Out of the box with factory settings it wasn't that nice, but I expected that. However, after adjusting the settings I have to say I'm very pleased with the picture. Interestingly, I am not experiencing any of the problems I was expecting, no banding, no vignetting and detail is held in very dark areas just above black. Also interesting that some of the settings previously on at default (according to reviews) are now switched off, so i wonder if the engineers at LG were looking at solutions to the criticisms during it's manufacturing cycle and the later models received some tweaks... or maybe I just got lucky....
legzr1 said:
The reviewer goes on to say that motion processing is great on the LG - anyone who owns or has interest in an LG oLED knows the first thing you do after powering on for the first time is to turn TruMotion off/zero !
Yes, I read that too, so had a play. The reviews said the default was smooth, however the set was already set to clear. I did turn TrueMotion to zero but while watching films I had recorded in HD, just to enjoy again and look at the picture critically, there is a scene in About a Boy early in the film where a crane shot slowly pans and lowers across the front of the school and building took on the appearance of a jerky juddering rolling shutter affect, not nice at all. I did play with the settings manually and kept replaying the scene but in the end have found the clear setting to be agreeable so have left it on that. Other problems with motion I have noticed is when people walk past vertical venetian blinds or fine brick work and the background 'tears' a bit, but trying manual settings does nothing to improve things, but fortunately it is a rare occurrence.I wasn't bothered about 4k, my old Sim2 is only 720P and will project a very nice image to 100". If I was to go for a 65"+ TV i would consider 4k but I don't sit 2' away from the screen and not sure I want a TV that big dominating the lounge so am looking at a new projector for big screen viewing.
So all in all I think I bagged a bargain, The blacks are black
and even the sound is better than expected for casual viewing. SD is ugly though, I wish there was a setting to show the picture at pixel to pixel rather than upscaling. The screen has a curve, not something I particularly wanted, but it is subtle and the design quite elegant. It will do for now, but will be interesting how things pan out and technologies progress, I will be very interested in what Loewe bring out...YMMV...
hairyben said:
RobDickinson said:
Yeah but they spent a lot of time above that too.
I remember seeing a mono (orange) 42" plasma up for £25-30k
That was never really a consumer product though was itI remember seeing a mono (orange) 42" plasma up for £25-30k
hairyben said:
cheddar said:
Noted, thanks to both above, I'm a bit out of touch
So, how far will prices fall? Only a couple of years ago the high end OLED's were £6k+, now they're less than half that, will we see top quality 50"/60" 4k/OLED tv's for under £1k soon?
Probably. So, how far will prices fall? Only a couple of years ago the high end OLED's were £6k+, now they're less than half that, will we see top quality 50"/60" 4k/OLED tv's for under £1k soon?
Plasmas went from £10k for a non full-hd 40" panel to sub £1k for a decent 1080 50" set in a very short time, 5 years or so.
However, now other makers are buying the panels to add their technology to control them, here is hoping the prices head south. 2015 OLED started to get there but if you watched the price in Currys, just before the 2016 models came out, they went up appreciably! Then dropped (usual reason).
I suppose the bottom line is what LG will sell them on for + new manufacturer add on for their build?
I'm still gutted that my trusty 42" Panasonic plasma broke for the second time after 8 years a few months ago, went out to JL, Currys and the like with all intentions of buying a replacement but the only thing I'd part money with for at present are the LG OLED, but I've got an alcove that it needs to fit in and a 55" just won't work.
I'm currently using the 32" from our bedroom in the lounge because I just won't pay for something that is worse than I've had.
I'm currently using the 32" from our bedroom in the lounge because I just won't pay for something that is worse than I've had.
gizlaroc said:
I would much prefer a 47-50", 55" for TV viewing is a bit too much imho. I am in a 22x22' room as well.
My lounge is frankly oversized for the footprint of the house (the previous owner extended it). I have a 42" panny and it looks like a portable telly on the wall and is completely swamped by the room.
I guess what I should really do is have a screen and projector - the room would definitely take it.
Hmmmmm.
There is a huge difference though between a modern 47-50" and a 42" plasma, you get so much more screen real estate with a nice neat bezel.
This is a 47" which again looks pretty small, but that is how I like it, I don't want it looking huge, and from 10' viewing distance it is a decent size imho.
That would suit a projector however, I have had two cinema rooms before and never really used them, had a superb NEC CRT projector and the the JVC DiLA, great images on a 10' screen, but I just don't like sitting in the dark, even with films.
This is a 47" which again looks pretty small, but that is how I like it, I don't want it looking huge, and from 10' viewing distance it is a decent size imho.
That would suit a projector however, I have had two cinema rooms before and never really used them, had a superb NEC CRT projector and the the JVC DiLA, great images on a 10' screen, but I just don't like sitting in the dark, even with films.
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