Ceiling speakers and fire hoods
Discussion
Hi all - I've had a bit of a search, but not found anything that helps a great deal - forgive me if this has been asked in the past. I'm currently installing some ceiling speakers in my kitchen, and feel I should also install fire hoods (given that we're in a bungalow and that the ceiling goes directly to the loft).
I've seen the hoody products, but they do seem rather pricey. Are JCC any good? The speakers are monitor audio pro-ic 65, so the cutout diameter is 200 (wish) mm.
Any thoughts, recommendations would be gratefully received.
I've seen the hoody products, but they do seem rather pricey. Are JCC any good? The speakers are monitor audio pro-ic 65, so the cutout diameter is 200 (wish) mm.
Any thoughts, recommendations would be gratefully received.
It's very much a grey area, and we will be releasing a guide on this soon hopefully!
I do sell the Hoody ones but they are very expensive and most people opt to go without them! I have another version coming out at about £30 each soon and also an acoustic fire rated box at about £120, but it's 3 months away.
JCC are for down lights, I have a load in my stores but reluctant to position them as speaker hood covers as that's not what they're designed for, very grey area!
However, the regs do state that a bungalow doesn't require fire rating as there is no living space above.....(BASED ON 2010 info!!, might be incorrect!!)
https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/files/documents/spotl...
I do sell the Hoody ones but they are very expensive and most people opt to go without them! I have another version coming out at about £30 each soon and also an acoustic fire rated box at about £120, but it's 3 months away.
JCC are for down lights, I have a load in my stores but reluctant to position them as speaker hood covers as that's not what they're designed for, very grey area!
However, the regs do state that a bungalow doesn't require fire rating as there is no living space above.....(BASED ON 2010 info!!, might be incorrect!!)
https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/files/documents/spotl...
For fire only hoods we use the Ansel range as they do ones that are big enough to cover a 240mm opening and a rated for thier size.
Only recently used Hoodys, which work well on speakers with rooms above.
I did get your message NB but so busy catching up after the theft of my laptop.
I'll email you soon.
V.
Only recently used Hoodys, which work well on speakers with rooms above.
I did get your message NB but so busy catching up after the theft of my laptop.
I'll email you soon.
V.
MrSparks said:
It's very much a grey area, and we will be releasing a guide on this soon hopefully!
I do sell the Hoody ones but they are very expensive and most people opt to go without them! I have another version coming out at about £30 each soon and also an acoustic fire rated box at about £120, but it's 3 months away.
JCC are for down lights, I have a load in my stores but reluctant to position them as speaker hood covers as that's not what they're designed for, very grey area!
However, the regs do state that a bungalow doesn't require fire rating as there is no living space above.....(BASED ON 2010 info!!, might be incorrect!!)
https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/files/documents/spotl...
What do you mean by grey area? The hood are designed to stop the spread of fire through the hole you've created thats penetrated the fire barrier... whether its for downlights or speakers isnt that material surely?I do sell the Hoody ones but they are very expensive and most people opt to go without them! I have another version coming out at about £30 each soon and also an acoustic fire rated box at about £120, but it's 3 months away.
JCC are for down lights, I have a load in my stores but reluctant to position them as speaker hood covers as that's not what they're designed for, very grey area!
However, the regs do state that a bungalow doesn't require fire rating as there is no living space above.....(BASED ON 2010 info!!, might be incorrect!!)
https://www.charnwood.gov.uk/files/documents/spotl...
And youre correct regarding bungalows, fire hoods are to prevent the quick spread of fire to above rooms and increase escape likelyhood, so no regulatory requirement for them in a bungalow, although there are noise/thermal considerations.
Thanks all. I too am a little confused by the distinction in application between downlighters and speakers - I guess my question would be: Would anything bad happen if I did use a hood designed for downlighters?
Fire prevention is the primary concern - I'd also like to protect the back of the speaker units from ingress of dust and the general muck in the loft space. If there's a bit of noise isolation then great, but I am not too worried about that.
I'll take a look at the ansel hoods...
Fire prevention is the primary concern - I'd also like to protect the back of the speaker units from ingress of dust and the general muck in the loft space. If there's a bit of noise isolation then great, but I am not too worried about that.
I'll take a look at the ansel hoods...
The problem with putting a fire dome on an open backed speaker is you affect the acoustic performance, you're creating a speaker cabinet, most likely to affect the bass frequencies.
Why not look at an 'enclosed' ceiling speaker? One with a built in back box that's acoustically designed. I think Monitor Audio do them.
As said, in a bungalow you don't need to worry about fire hoods.
Why not look at an 'enclosed' ceiling speaker? One with a built in back box that's acoustically designed. I think Monitor Audio do them.
As said, in a bungalow you don't need to worry about fire hoods.
Driller said:
I have 8 pairs of ceiling speakers on 3 floors and none of them have hoods.
Way overpriced and anyway a waste of money IMO and about as much use as those little wooden cable supports some people put under their hifi cables
Waste of moneys relative; you could remove all the seatbelts and airbags from your car and ebay them on the basis you've never had need to use one, but others may prefer to keep them just in case.Way overpriced and anyway a waste of money IMO and about as much use as those little wooden cable supports some people put under their hifi cables
Driller said:
Airbags and seatbelts are useful.
What about removing the little wooden cable supports from underneath the hifi cables?
Why not put safety nets at the bottom of stairs?
Are these things actually scientifically proven to have a significantly positive effect in a fire?
I think you need to spend 5 minutes researching what they are and how they function and why they're a legal requirement sbefore you comment further.What about removing the little wooden cable supports from underneath the hifi cables?
Why not put safety nets at the bottom of stairs?
Are these things actually scientifically proven to have a significantly positive effect in a fire?
http://www.chelsealightingdesign.co.uk/faq.php?id=...
I have Monitor Audio Controlled Performance (enclosed back) speakers which seemed to me to be a better idea than open back ones. The enclosure volume is designed with the driver in mind, it keeps dust and crap off the back of the cone and negates the requirement for fire hoods.
I don't really get why so many ceiling speakers are offered as open back designs.
I don't really get why so many ceiling speakers are offered as open back designs.
hairyben said:
Driller said:
Airbags and seatbelts are useful.
What about removing the little wooden cable supports from underneath the hifi cables?
Why not put safety nets at the bottom of stairs?
Are these things actually scientifically proven to have a significantly positive effect in a fire?
I think you need to spend 5 minutes researching what they are and how they function and why they're a legal requirement sbefore you comment further.What about removing the little wooden cable supports from underneath the hifi cables?
Why not put safety nets at the bottom of stairs?
Are these things actually scientifically proven to have a significantly positive effect in a fire?
http://www.chelsealightingdesign.co.uk/faq.php?id=...
What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
Driller said:
When we bought and restored our house we knocked down all the (fashionable at the time in 1893) deviding walls on the ground floor to create one big open space. Does that mean I have to put all these walls back up then as they acted as fireproofing?
What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
You need to decide if your argument is technical in nature or an unwillingness to pay for the less bling things. What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
Right now you sound like the guy whose fitted linglongs to his car and needs to try to convince everyone theres no difference to premium tyres.
VEX said:
Depending on how the enclosure is fitted to the speaker and what it is made of, it may still technically need a fire hood. Just not an acoustic hood.
V.
Since the space above the ones in my bathroom is a kitchen with 1.2m X 1.2m X 12mm porcelain floor tiles and the space above the ones in my kitchen is a roof terrace I think they will be fine. I applied logic and common sense rather than slavishly following a rule. V.
Do all the doors in your house have automatic closers? Mine certainly don't.
I just checked the instillation manual and the safety instructions don't say they require fire hoods anyway.
hairyben said:
Driller said:
When we bought and restored our house we knocked down all the (fashionable at the time in 1893) deviding walls on the ground floor to create one big open space. Does that mean I have to put all these walls back up then as they acted as fireproofing?
What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
You need to decide if your argument is technical in nature or an unwillingness to pay for the less bling things. What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
Right now you sound like the guy whose fitted linglongs to his car and needs to try to convince everyone theres no difference to premium tyres.
It's both: technically it's just overkill (as others have suggested) as there are sufficiently numerous other "hazards" around the house to render them pointless and they cost a ridiculous amount of money so even though I can afford them, they are very hard to justify.
Driller said:
hairyben said:
Driller said:
When we bought and restored our house we knocked down all the (fashionable at the time in 1893) deviding walls on the ground floor to create one big open space. Does that mean I have to put all these walls back up then as they acted as fireproofing?
What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
You need to decide if your argument is technical in nature or an unwillingness to pay for the less bling things. What about if I remove half the ceiling and make a duplex?
Don't get me wrong, I did look at these things at the tine and decided against them.
I think this is a step too far and when you consider the frankly outrageous prices for the things, you can only draw one conclusion IMO.
Right now you sound like the guy whose fitted linglongs to his car and needs to try to convince everyone theres no difference to premium tyres.
It's both: technically it's just overkill (as others have suggested) as there are sufficiently numerous other "hazards" around the house to render them pointless and they cost a ridiculous amount of money so even though I can afford them, they are very hard to justify.
As for the cost only you can decide whether your safety is worth you paying for, to me a few hundred spent maintaining fire barriers to allow decent escape times seems like a small amount relative to a scale of project where multiple walls are being removed, but we all have our own priorities. Id be curious to know your workings for cost justification though, none of us ever plan to be running from burning buildings, its a difficult thing to gauge risk which is why we rely on building regs to set standards as they have a far bigger overview and dataset to our individual experiences.
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