Sonos - Heads Up

[kingston12]

Greg66 said:

Ah.

Having Sonos blinkers well and truly bolted on, I don't really know what competition there is now and what it does/doesn't do.

Anyone want to offer a quick run down?

I changed all of my Sonos gear for Chromecast Audio for the simple reason that it uses the 5ghz band which Sonos cannot. I suffered for years with constant dropouts from Sonos which the Chromecast immediately cured.

The Chromecast Audio is a direct replacement for the Sonos Connect (ZP90) but is a lot more compact and costs £30 instead of £349.

It does multiroom and streams your own collection as well as most of the main streaming services. The one downside is that there is no all-in-one app like there is for Sonos i.e. if you want to stream Spotify you do so from the Spotify app itself.

I'd never suggest anyone sets up a Sonos system from scratch now, but whether it is actually worth changing from Sonos if you already have it is another question entirely. For me it was definitely worth it because Sonos didn't work and Chromecast did. The resale value of Sonos is also very good (in the context of AV/Hifi equipment), so I banked a few hundred pounds even after upgrading the sound in every zone.

There are a lot more options available now, but nothing that will tempt me away from Chromecast Audio yet.

[bristolracer]

Greg66 said:

Ah.

Having Sonos blinkers well and truly bolted on, I don't really know what competition there is now and what it does/doesn't do.

Anyone want to offer a quick run down?

Yamaha Musiccast
Denon Heos
are 2, as well as stand alone speakers all their new av amps have the system built in. Denon also do a 4 zone amp,for not much more than 2 connect amps will now cost you.

Plenty of others out there now,samsung.lg,and loads of specialist stuff.
As others have pointed out the chromecast can be plugged into most things with an aux input.

Sonos is slick but its getting dated now.

[Markbarry1977]

kmpowell said:

New prices as from the 23rd of Feb, due to the significant change on the US Dollar to GBP exchange rate. Old prices in brackets:

PLAY:1 - (£169) £199
PLAY:3 - (£259) £299
PLAY:5 - (£429) £499
PLAYBAR - (£599) £699
SUB - (£599) £699
CONNECT - (£279) £349
CONNECT:AMP - (£399) £499
BOOST - (£79) £99
Wallmount - (£35) £39

F**k that, that's the end of me buying any more sonos gear. I have a JBL extreme that is portable and Bluetooth and it sounds better than the sonos. I believe the JBL is all Harmon Kardon inside anyway from the limited research I did.

[thebraketester]

I think they have priced themselves out of the market. Sonos are OK, but they are not 'that' good to warrant such an increase

[Speed 3]

Markbarry1977 said:

kmpowell said:

New prices as from the 23rd of Feb, due to the significant change on the US Dollar to GBP exchange rate. Old prices in brackets:

PLAY:1 - (£169) £199
PLAY:3 - (£259) £299
PLAY:5 - (£429) £499
PLAYBAR - (£599) £699
SUB - (£599) £699
CONNECT - (£279) £349
CONNECT:AMP - (£399) £499
BOOST - (£79) £99
Wallmount - (£35) £39

F**k that, that's the end of me buying any more sonos gear. I have a JBL extreme that is portable and Bluetooth and it sounds better than the sonos. I believe the JBL is all Harmon Kardon inside anyway from the limited research I did.

GBP/USD is -14% last 12 months so add in a bit of inflation and 17% is about right for a company based in the US. Competition pricing will depend on source currency and its relation to the country of manufacture. Sonos always was a bit Apple in commanding premium pricing for not always convincing benefit (aside from mostly intuitive interfaces) but now there's similar capabilities and sound quality available they'll start to struggle in the UK. I like what I've got for convenience but it won't be expanding. Just treated myself to a Rega turntable made in Essex, great value compared to what I paid back in the 90's. If only my tech savvy kids could work out what that arm on the right does......

[paulrockliffe]

kingston12 said:

The one downside is that there is no all-in-one app like there is for Sonos i.e. if you want to stream Spotify you do so from the Spotify app itself.

Whether that's a downside is quite subjective though, I don't think it is personally. I can see why it's good to go to one app, but app coverage on Chromecast is better than on Sonos because of this, the developer pretty much ticks a box to add Chromecast support and that's all there is to it. I've not seen the Sonos app, but I presumed that once you were in the App you'd have to select the source one way or another, you just do that in the Android environment rather than the Sonos App.

Re Alexa integration, I'm sure Google rebranding Chromecast as Home is the first step in smashing Alexa out of the park. They're miles ahead in terms of the technology they have access to and the developer network, they just need to apply that to come up with a much better product. Think your phone automatically connecting when you're on the WiFi network and interacting with everything, using Chromecast to deal with audio out, remote microphones to deal with sound in, rather than having to buy an Alexa for every room. Plus whatever other hardware you can think of all talking to each other.

I have to say I've been perplexed as to why anyone would have investing in the Sonos setup when it was so obviously going to be destroyed by the likes of Google, who can back it up with integrated data, as soon as it gained any traction. They're definitely going the wrong way on price and they'll be on a downward slide from now on I'd expect.

[anonymous-user]

paulrockliffe said:

Whether that's a downside is quite subjective though, I don't think it is personally. I can see why it's good to go to one app, but app coverage on Chromecast is better than on Sonos because of this, the developer pretty much ticks a box to add Chromecast support and that's all there is to it. I've not seen the Sonos app, but I presumed that once you were in the App you'd have to select the source one way or another, you just do that in the Android environment rather than the Sonos App.

Re Alexa integration, I'm sure Google rebranding Chromecast as Home is the first step in smashing Alexa out of the park. They're miles ahead in terms of the technology they have access to and the developer network, they just need to apply that to come up with a much better product. Think your phone automatically connecting when you're on the WiFi network and interacting with everything, using Chromecast to deal with audio out, remote microphones to deal with sound in, rather than having to buy an Alexa for every room. Plus whatever other hardware you can think of all talking to each other.

I have to say I've been perplexed as to why anyone would have investing in the Sonos setup when it was so obviously going to be destroyed by the likes of Google, who can back it up with integrated data, as soon as it gained any traction. They're definitely going the wrong way on price and they'll be on a downward slide from now on I'd expect.

In terms of sources you have the library that is stored on your PC/Network, you can register various online sources with Sonos to access and search directly from within Sonos (eg Spotify/Deezer) and you can play stuff stored locally on the device you are using as ther controller. Theoretically you could plug a Chromecast into the connect or Play 3/5 and get access to everything else - although that would be silly.

We have one turntable and we can play a record and have the sound come out in a completely different room. Of course we could also just rip the record.


So I suppose the main advantage is that you can build a playlist from multiple sources and mulitple devices.

But I am pretty sure I wouldn't start with Sonos know when you could buy standard kit and "network" it with something like Chromecast and then change if/when something better than Chromecast came along, leaving your audio kit in situ.

If I was to change now I would have to replace speakers/amps in 5 rooms as well as the networking bit

[mikeiow]

Slightly sad really - the SONOS solution does work REALLY well for multiple rooms - as others have said, you have your music library, maybe ones on google music, spotify (& family members can use their own). tune-in radio, Soundcloud, etc etc.... all neatly from one nice app which works on phone/ipad/laptop......build a playlist from those multiple sources pretty easily, all-in I would say very nice....
.....but the cost is now ludicrous!

Glad we got ours a few years back - as others have said, this will likely be the nail in the coffin for UK sales for them....shame, I'd like to see them continue to do well (future app updates kind of rely on them surviving, eh!).
Looking forward to the Alexa integration later in the year (not bothered enough to faff around with the Yonomi stuff).

If I did it again, not entirely sure what I would do - we chose SONOS *because* it was a simple 'turnkey' solution that would be easy for anyone here to use.

[dmsims]

Unless it's changed since last year i found the searching in Sonos was crap compared to Spotify

Frequently get zero results - same search in Spotify found it with no problem

[gizlaroc]

If they updated their system to justify the new pricing fair enough, but it is starting to feel outdated against the competition.

It needs to play at least 24/96 and it needs to decode MQA, if they are going to ask a premium price they need to at least match what the other are doing.

[page3]

paulrockliffe said:

kingston12 said:

The one downside is that there is no all-in-one app like there is for Sonos i.e. if you want to stream Spotify you do so from the Spotify app itself.

Whether that's a downside is quite subjective though, I don't think it is personally. I can see why it's good to go to one app, but app coverage on Chromecast is better than on Sonos because of this, the developer pretty much ticks a box to add Chromecast support and that's all there is to it. I've not seen the Sonos app, but I presumed that once you were in the App you'd have to select the source one way or another, you just do that in the Android environment rather than the Sonos App.

Re Alexa integration, I'm sure Google rebranding Chromecast as Home is the first step in smashing Alexa out of the park. They're miles ahead in terms of the technology they have access to and the developer network, they just need to apply that to come up with a much better product. Think your phone automatically connecting when you're on the WiFi network and interacting with everything, using Chromecast to deal with audio out, remote microphones to deal with sound in, rather than having to buy an Alexa for every room. Plus whatever other hardware you can think of all talking to each other.

I have to say I've been perplexed as to why anyone would have investing in the Sonos setup when it was so obviously going to be destroyed by the likes of Google, who can back it up with integrated data, as soon as it gained any traction. They're definitely going the wrong way on price and they'll be on a downward slide from now on I'd expect.

I believe having one App is a massive benefit and it's (almost) the only reason I stay with Sonos, especially as their App seems to get worse with each release. Basically, I use the global search where a single search will interrogate all your music sources. The idea of having to search on each service individually really seems a massive backwards step. As soon as someone else provides this functionality with local, Deezer and Apple music it's goodbye Sonos.

• Controller software buggy
• new queue functionality flawed
• hardware controller functionality depreciated
• Apple Music integration simplistic and missing functionality.
• track limit
• withdrawal of Audible support over 2 years ago. Still being "worked on"!
• No hi-def
• Connect is expensive and antique. No bluetooth. No Airplay. Out of date power-saving credentials.
• No bedside speaker (with clock / alarm)
• No battery based speaker
• OSX software ancient (no idea re. Windows)

[Leggy]

Sonos will just be the first of most manufactures to raise prices due to exchange rates. So their prices will no doubt still be in line with others. They just blinked first.

[troc]

Leggy said:

Sonos will just be the first of most manufactures to raise prices due to exchange rates. So their prices will no doubt still be in line with others. They just blinked first.

Yep, I think 2017 will be the year that we see HUGE price increases in almost all walks of live in the UK as the reality of the devalued pound bites.

[TheGuru]

I've got a house full of Sonos, including the sound bar and sub for the TV. I still don't think there is a competing system that ties it all together so nicely and simply. Especially when sharing it with 3 other family members who use it all the time too.

For those unaware, you can use Sonos directly from Spotify too, so you don't need to use the Sonos app.

Also bought it for my 87yo grandmother for a couple of rooms in her house - very easy for her.

Another benefit of Sonos is it plays independently, unlike other methods like bluetooth. I can play my music and still use my iPad or phone for games or other sound source without it stopping playback.

It is expensive but I'd be interested in hearing what the genuine alternatives are? Let's take the Play 5, it does have very good sound quality and I'm not sure what would be as good, without having to buy a separate amp & speakers with Chromecast (I think the Play 5 is better than any bluetooth speaker I've heard) - which is nowhere near as elegant and crap for multiple rooms. The Bose/Denon stuff is also similarly priced, the LG/Samsung/Panasonic/Phillips stuff is just not up to scratch sound wise.

Edited by TheGuru on Wednesday 15th February 07:49

Edited by TheGuru on Wednesday 15th February 07:50

[kingston12]

TheGuru said:

It is expensive but I'd be interested in hearing what the genuine alternatives are? Let's take the Play 5, it does have very good sound quality and I'm not sure what would be as good, without having to buy a separate amp & speakers with Chromecast (I think the Play 5 is better than any bluetooth speaker I've heard) - which is nowhere near as elegant and crap for multiple rooms. The Bose/Denon stuff is also similarly priced, the LG/Samsung/Panasonic/Phillips stuff is just not up to scratch sound wise.

One of the advantages to me of moving away from Sonos was a better range of speakers.

I had 2 Play 3s in a stereo pair in my kitchen (I much prefer a stereo pair rather than sound blasting out from one corner of the room). I replaced them with a pair of Q Acoustics BT3 and a Chromecast Audio and the sound is much better than the Play 3 pair, probably approaching a pair of Play 5s.

With the new prices the Play 3 pair would cost £600 and the my current set up would be £230 (£200 for the speakers, £30 for the CCA).

In another zone, I replaced an (old) Play 5 pair) with a pair of Ruark MR1 speakers and a B&W subwoofer. This is a bit more expensive system (£650), but still cheaper and better than the Play 5 at £1k.

[chasingracecars]

I am considering getting some Yamaha units, they have a similar control to Sonos, similar features but add airplay. They are however much cheaper.

Power output equivalent of a Play5 is £199.
Power output equivalent of a Play 1 is £149

There are connect equivalent units too these are £299
Then the amps equivalent are £429

Soundbar and Sub come in at £799 (thats for both units though!)

I have three Play5's a Playbar, Sub, Two Play 1's and might sell all of it. Price uplift makes it difficult to justify more rooms to the existing system.

I can supply all of the above slightly below the list pricing so may get some in to try out.

[kingston12]

chasingracecars said:

I am considering getting some Yamaha units, they have a similar control to Sonos, similar features but add airplay. They are however much cheaper.

Power output equivalent of a Play5 is £199.
Power output equivalent of a Play 1 is £149

There are connect equivalent units too these are £299
Then the amps equivalent are £429

Soundbar and Sub come in at £799 (thats for both units though!)

I have three Play5's a Playbar, Sub, Two Play 1's and might sell all of it. Price uplift makes it difficult to justify more rooms to the existing system.

I can supply all of the above slightly below the list pricing so may get some in to try out.

The resale value of the Sonos is very healthy as well, and might even go up a bit after this announcement, making the changeover even cheaper.

[anonymous-user]

kingston12 said:

One of the advantages to me of moving away from Sonos was a better range of speakers.

This is the main reason I prefer the Connects and Connect Amps. Our main listening area has a Connect wired to a Yamaha Avantage AV receiver and a load of Anthony Gallo speakers. The dining room/ kitchen runs off a ZP120 and a pair of AG Strada 2s. I have no complaints about sound quality.

P5/3 are ok for bedrooms, but I think of them as glorified ghetto blasters (a bit unfair, I know, but I can't think of a better expression. Perhaps glorified ipod docks might be a little bit fairer).

[kingston12]

Greg66 said:

kingston12 said:

One of the advantages to me of moving away from Sonos was a better range of speakers.

This is the main reason I prefer the Connects and Connect Amps. Our main listening area has a Connect wired to a Yamaha Avantage AV receiver and a load of Anthony Gallo speakers. The dining room/ kitchen runs off a ZP120 and a pair of AG Strada 2s. I have no complaints about sound quality.

I agree, but the Connect and Connect Amps are the units where Sonos really start to lose the plot price-wise for me.

The Connect is going to be £350 now and does the same job as a £30 Chromecast Audio. The Connect Amp is £500 and it bettered in my opinion by the £300 Denon PMA-50 which has a similar footprint.

I think the Play units are pretty good as standalone speakers go, and their real strength is that they can be used as a stereo pair. The problem is that because the Sonos tech has to be packed into both speakers (rather than having one 'dumb' monitor like everyone else does) means that they are too expensive.

A pair of Play 5s really give an excellent sound, but not really good enough for £1k.

[chasingracecars]

kingston12 said:

chasingracecars said:

I am considering getting some Yamaha units, they have a similar control to Sonos, similar features but add airplay. They are however much cheaper.

Power output equivalent of a Play5 is £199.
Power output equivalent of a Play 1 is £149

There are connect equivalent units too these are £299
Then the amps equivalent are £429

Soundbar and Sub come in at £799 (thats for both units though!)

I have three Play5's a Playbar, Sub, Two Play 1's and might sell all of it. Price uplift makes it difficult to justify more rooms to the existing system.

I can supply all of the above slightly below the list pricing so may get some in to try out.

The resale value of the Sonos is very healthy as well, and might even go up a bit after this announcement, making the changeover even cheaper.

Exactly my thoughts, plus I am in the trade and I can actually make something on anything other then Sonos. My last deal on a Play1 was a whole £7 trade discount. By the time I worked out shipping and my time they are not worth it, send people to currys