Disappointing speaker demo - may just move to Sonos?

[Jodyone]

Sonos looking pretty good in hi-fi terms:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php...

I like fiddling with old-fashioned kit too much, so they're not for me- but acoustically fantastic, by this highly respected account at least.

[njw1]

fasimew said:

£10k? Materials cost may be a few hundred if I was to build a pair of floor standers using high quality drivers. For a manufacturer it would be substantively less. Where does the other £9500+ go? Don't tell me r&d. Any tom, dick or harry can look up TS parameters for their drivers and input them in winisd or other freely available calculator.

Exactly, I've a pa system in a local venue that will output near enough 140db continuously and sound good doing it, the whole system; Speakers, amps, processing, cases, cables, everything, cost less than £10k. I did build the bass cabinets myself which kept costs down but still used birch ply throughout and high quality drivers.

I know that comparing a pro audio system with hifi is like comparing chalk and cheese (is it though...?) all said and done a speaker is nothing more than a bit of cardboard flapping around in a wooden box, there's nothing magical going on! I can't get my head around how a speaker system that can literally shake the walls of a nightclub costs less than a pair of speakers you'd stick in your living room....

[Sheets Tabuer]

I don't want to get in to the whole hifi bullst but to get a speaker to output a huge amount of sound isn't difficult. What is difficult is to get it to pick out the finger plucking of a violin or guitar, to pick out the depth of soundstsge, that's what you are paying for.

Seriously go down the hifi shop and listen to a hagel amp with some B&W 603.

As I've said before when I want the nightclub experience I fireup the sonos and a sub, if I want wicked game acoustic I stick on my focal stellia.

[legzr1]

njw1 said:

Exactly, I've a pa system in a local venue that will output near enough 140db continuously and sound good doing it, the whole system; Speakers, amps, processing, cases, cables, everything, cost less than £10k. I did build the bass cabinets myself which kept costs down but still used birch ply throughout and high quality drivers.

I know that comparing a pro audio system with hifi is like comparing chalk and cheese (is it though...?) all said and done a speaker is nothing more than a bit of cardboard flapping around in a wooden box, there's nothing magical going on! I can't get my head around how a speaker system that can literally shake the walls of a nightclub costs less than a pair of speakers you'd stick in your living room....

One makes a lot of noise, the other is capable of a lot of music.

There’s the chance that someone spending time listening to noise at 140dB may not have the remaining hearing needed to actually be aware of the difference.

[legzr1]

Jodyone said:

Sonos looking pretty good in hi-fi terms:

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php...

I like fiddling with old-fashioned kit too much, so they're not for me- but acoustically fantastic, by this highly respected account at least.

I read it as not too bad for what it is - a lifestyle product.

Some of the distortion and resonances in those plots are crazy.

[fasimew]

Sheets Tabuer said:

I don't want to get in to the whole hifi bullst but to get a speaker to output a huge amount of sound isn't difficult. What is difficult is to get it to pick out the finger plucking of a violin or guitar, to pick out the depth of soundstsge, that's what you are paying for.

Seriously go down the hifi shop and listen to a hagel amp with some B&W 603.

As I've said before when I want the nightclub experience I fireup the sonos and a sub, if I want wicked game acoustic I stick on my focal stellia.

There are only two factors which affect this. The driver and the cabinet. You buy the best driver you can afford, and you make a cab in a way that it has minimal detrimental affect to SQ. There are plenty of guides on how to do this. It's actually quite simple in principle and in practice.

[njw1]

legzr1 said:

njw1 said:

Exactly, I've a pa system in a local venue that will output near enough 140db continuously and sound good doing it, the whole system; Speakers, amps, processing, cases, cables, everything, cost less than £10k. I did build the bass cabinets myself which kept costs down but still used birch ply throughout and high quality drivers.

I know that comparing a pro audio system with hifi is like comparing chalk and cheese (is it though...?) all said and done a speaker is nothing more than a bit of cardboard flapping around in a wooden box, there's nothing magical going on! I can't get my head around how a speaker system that can literally shake the walls of a nightclub costs less than a pair of speakers you'd stick in your living room....

One makes a lot of noise, the other is capable of a lot of music.

There’s the chance that someone spending time listening to noise at 140dB may not have the remaining hearing needed to actually be aware of the difference.

So just because it goes loud it can't be musical? Said system never gets used at the levels it's capable of anyway in the venue it's currently in as that sort of SPL just isn't needed, that means lots of headroom and lots of headroom = good sound IME.

[Red 5]

Tim Cognito said:

Derail away...

My clearly uninformed opinion is that once you get over about £10k for hifi speakers it's 100% marketing and subjective opinion on what type of sound you prefer, I'm sure someone will shortly post some frequency response charts or something to prove me wrong.

Edited by Tim Cognito on Saturday 23 March 19:08

This is the audio equivalent of……
Are all 100% marketing above £25K. Anything above an MX5 is a waste of money and nothing is as fast as a second hand 340d.
My Hyundai 4x4 leaves all BMWs for dead in town.

Golf clubs are a waste of money. I’ve seen Caddy Shack and you’re all idiots buying those marketed expensive crap. It’s just a stick with a bit on the end.

[Boom78]

Going back to the OPs initial question, I’m in the process of moving house and when I do I’m going Sonos (plus a Sonos amp to link in one of my technics 1210s to the ecosystem). Maybe it’s an age thing but I can’t be bothered faffing with wires and filling a room with big floor standing speakers anymore. All my DJ and hifi stuff will probably end up in a garden man cave for occasional use. Saying that, even today with my various set ups still active my ‘go to’ for general music listening is my humble JBL Flip Bluetooth speaker and Spotify/radio apps via my iPhone, tech has given away for ease for me.

Edited by Boom78 on Sunday 24th March 07:32

Edited by Boom78 on Sunday 24th March 07:39

[legzr1]

njw1 said:

legzr1 said:

njw1 said:

Exactly, I've a pa system in a local venue that will output near enough 140db continuously and sound good doing it, the whole system; Speakers, amps, processing, cases, cables, everything, cost less than £10k. I did build the bass cabinets myself which kept costs down but still used birch ply throughout and high quality drivers.

I know that comparing a pro audio system with hifi is like comparing chalk and cheese (is it though...?) all said and done a speaker is nothing more than a bit of cardboard flapping around in a wooden box, there's nothing magical going on! I can't get my head around how a speaker system that can literally shake the walls of a nightclub costs less than a pair of speakers you'd stick in your living room....

One makes a lot of noise, the other is capable of a lot of music.

There’s the chance that someone spending time listening to noise at 140dB may not have the remaining hearing needed to actually be aware of the difference.

So just because it goes loud it can't be musical? Said system never gets used at the levels it's capable of anyway in the venue it's currently in as that sort of SPL just isn't needed, that means lots of headroom and lots of headroom = good sound IME.

You seemed to be making a point of the volume it’s capable of, a level that would introduce permanent deafness in a short period of time.

I understand the need for headroom. After all, dynamics are vital to music if its to sound convincing.

I agree, there are PA systems out there capable of excellent quality as well as quantity. Filling a venue with good sound isn’t easy. But, it isn’t cheap either. £10K for the whole system sounds like a stretch to me.

[AC43]

Boom78 said:

Going back to the OPs initial question, I’m in the process of moving. Maybe it’s an age thing but I can’t be bothered faffing with wires and filling a room with big floor standing speakers anymore.

No, you've got this all wrong. I moved house four times between 2007 and 2017 and, each time, I made sure I had all the speaker & sub cabling run as part of the refurb. Also, each time I'd take the opportunity to upgrade various components - be it one of the TVs, one of the amps, some of the surround sound speakers, whatever. As far as my wife is concerned, most of it is just "black boxes".
As long as it's all reasonably discrete, she's not bothered. And she doesn't notice the upgrades. Happy days.

[Tony1963]

AC43 said:

No, you've got this all wrong. I moved house four times between 2007 and 2017 and, each time, I made sure I had all the speaker & sub cabling run as part of the refurb. Also, each time I'd take the opportunity to upgrade various components - be it one of the TVs, one of the amps, some of the surround sound speakers, whatever. As far as my wife is concerned, most of it is just "black boxes".
As long as it's all reasonably discrete, she's not bothered. And she doesn't notice the upgrades. Happy days.

Do you chuckle to yourself when slipping a new box into place?

[AC43]

Tony1963 said:

AC43 said:

No, you've got this all wrong. I moved house four times between 2007 and 2017 and, each time, I made sure I had all the speaker & sub cabling run as part of the refurb. Also, each time I'd take the opportunity to upgrade various components - be it one of the TVs, one of the amps, some of the surround sound speakers, whatever. As far as my wife is concerned, most of it is just "black boxes".
As long as it's all reasonably discrete, she's not bothered. And she doesn't notice the upgrades. Happy days.

Do you chuckle to yourself when slipping a new box into place?

Yeah of course. It's very satisfying.

My OH will always resist the cost of something like that. But she always appreciates the output later on. It's a long game.

[OutInTheShed]

njw1 said:

legzr1 said:

njw1 said:

Exactly, I've a pa system in a local venue that will output near enough 140db continuously and sound good doing it, the whole system; Speakers, amps, processing, cases, cables, everything, cost less than £10k. I did build the bass cabinets myself which kept costs down but still used birch ply throughout and high quality drivers.

I know that comparing a pro audio system with hifi is like comparing chalk and cheese (is it though...?) all said and done a speaker is nothing more than a bit of cardboard flapping around in a wooden box, there's nothing magical going on! I can't get my head around how a speaker system that can literally shake the walls of a nightclub costs less than a pair of speakers you'd stick in your living room....

One makes a lot of noise, the other is capable of a lot of music.

There’s the chance that someone spending time listening to noise at 140dB may not have the remaining hearing needed to actually be aware of the difference.

So just because it goes loud it can't be musical? Said system never gets used at the levels it's capable of anyway in the venue it's currently in as that sort of SPL just isn't needed, that means lots of headroom and lots of headroom = good sound IME.

Audio in a 'venue' will likely have one or more amps and speakers per instrument/vocal.
That's a world apart from putting everything into one mid-range cone, when it comes to 'intermodulation' and so forth.

An electric guitar speaker can be allowed to 'distort' and add harmonics, it's part of the instrument.
Put the vocals into the same cone at the same time, and the distortion becomes a very different thing.

My local 100-seat venue can produce a great sound for say a jazz quartet, it can be pretty loud.
The same PA playing a stereo recording of a jazz quartet would sound terrible at the same level.