Seperates vs All in One streamer…

[adsk]

The advantage of an active speaker is that one of the most difficult jobs of putting a system together (amp + speaker synergy) has been done for you and in a way that a passive speaker+amp would struggle to do. Modern DSP controlled active systems go even further in this, e.g. extracting deeper bass than a traditional active system can do.

Having had a traditional separates system for 3 decades I switched to a Burchardt Audio A500 nearly 4 years ago with zero regrets. It costs similar to your basket and replaced a large floor-stander/ 400w amp/streaming pre-amp.

In your ballpark budget, for your situation the KEFLS50+sub/KEF LS60 would probably work well, , System Audio Legend Silverback 5.2 or 40.2 , Dynaudio Focus 10 or 30. As has been suggested earlier in this thread, a traditional active system in the form of the ATC SCM19/40A.

And someone has mentioned JBL earlier in the thread...JBL 4329P is a bit of a bargain and has very positive reviews and it would definitely fill a very large space.

Edited by adsk on Sunday 7th April 16:34

[d_a_n1979]

DoubleSix said:

I can totally see the use case for an active speaker set up on a desk (like i have) or perhaps a teenagers bedroom… im just not convinced its the the uncompromising solution for a “main” set up in a large space.

My JBLs are not desk friendly



They're the only place I can put them; not ideal next to a glass pane, but it is what it is and thankfully it doesn't vibrate as it's well sealed in!

The Atacama stands are mass loaded with atabites, the speakers sing very well on them indeed...

For an 'office system' it doesn't do too bad...

I've gone down the desktop route etc; it's just not as good... I reduced the size of my desk and I was able to better my system

I've no room for separates; so actives suit me well...

I am currently toying with the idea of a set of ADAM A8Xs...

[Tony1963]

DoubleSix said:

It was a question more than a statement really Tony. To me, logically, cramming everything in a user friendly box must introduce compromises. Correct me if im wrong.

Similarly, those KEF LS50 speakers with everything built-in are less £££ than the speakers alone that i listed in my OP. So, i would need someone to explain, convincingly why they are even comparable. You know, beyond “i have them and they sound nice”. One mans Mercedes is another mans Hyundai etc

I really haven’t got time for a journey sadly. I just want someone to say, “thats great gear” or “have a look at this comparable option”. I not sure the options here are necessarily comparable, hence my question above.

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 16:19

Ok.

Firstly I’ll just say that I don’t envy you in your position. Large rooms and/or high ceilings can be notoriously difficult to ‘energise’. Will you want to play complex rock music loud? Or are you after ‘musical wallpaper” but played well? Lots of hard/reflective surfaces? Carpets? Rugs? Lots of glass?

I can see that you pretty much just want it to be ‘ok’ enough, and your chosen components probably would be.

Just one thing: from a quick read, that streamer is also a pre amp, so that duplicates a large part of the integrated amp. Or have I read about the wrong components? If the streamer does contain a pre, active speakers would make perfect sense. It’s just a matter of finding the right ones.

[DoubleSix]

Loads of very hard surfaces, glass, porcelain. Crazy roof angles etc. Horrendous for listening basically

Those Buchardt A500s look right up my street but show as sold out. The point someone made about room correction seems especially relevant to my space. The KEF stuff doesn’t seem to have any. I just watched Darko’s review of the A500s… mmmmm want

I have very eclectic tastes musically everything from Dub to Classical. DnB to Chilli Peppers. Not much music i cant appreciate accept perhaps some weird europop ste

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:25

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:29

[d_a_n1979]

I'm probably in the minority but not a fan of the KEF LS50s, active or passive

Had them both; could never gel with them; felt the R100s and R300s were better; the R3s and R3 Beta's more so again...

I thought the KEF X300As back in the day were better than the LS50s; but that's to my ears...

The last 'top end' actives I heard were ATCs like these: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/196297153872?_ul=GB

Absolutely amazing through a simple Audiolab M DAC (I'm sure it was Audiolab, but could have been Musical fidelity...)

The last studio monitors I heard were a set of ADAM A7Xs via my SMSL DAC and a set of Genelec's (can't remember which ones, but they were of the bigger size and silly money), but I was offered a home demo so took it on and thoroughly enjoyed them

I haven't heard the LEF LS60's but apparently they're absolutely superb...

Those with a decent DAC would minimise your system well; unless you need CDPs/vinyl etc

[Nomme de Plum]

DoubleSix said:

Loads of very hard surfaces, glass, porcelain. Crazy roof angles etc. Horrendous for listening basically

Those Buchardt A500s look right up my street but show as sold out. The point someone made about room correction seems especially relevant to my space. The KEF stuff doesn’t seem to have any. I just watched Darko’s review of the A500s… mmmmm want

I have very eclectic tastes musically everything from Dub to Classical. DnB to Chilli Peppers. Not much music i cant appreciate accept perhaps some weird europop ste

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:25

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:29

That room will be challenge with lots of hard surfaces.

We had something similar 8 x 14 open plan like yours ceilings were 2.9m if i recall correctly. Ended up acoustically treating a number of walls and had the benefit of DSP Meridian speakers with 861v8 processor.

[stevoknevo]

DoubleSix said:

Loads of very hard surfaces, glass, porcelain. Crazy roof angles etc. Horrendous for listening basically

Those Buchardt A500s look right up my street but show as sold out. The point someone made about room correction seems especially relevant to my space. The KEF stuff doesn’t seem to have any. I just watched Darko’s review of the A500s… mmmmm want

I have very eclectic tastes musically everything from Dub to Classical. DnB to Chilli Peppers. Not much music i cant appreciate accept perhaps some weird europop ste

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:25

Edited by DoubleSix on Sunday 7th April 17:29

That's a lovely but rather tricky room! Where do you plan on putting the speakers?
I'm a total convert to room correction, my last two amps have had it, and I'd thoroughly recommend it especially for a room like yours, however it can't do much about reverb so you may need to address that - how does it sound when you clap your hands? (although the shape of the roof might help somewhat with reflections?)

I've got a Lyngdorf TDAi-1120 which has Room Perfect room compensation and is essentially a powered DAC with comprehensive streaming capabilities, a pair of their on-wall FR-1 speakers, and a couple of BK Electronics PL12-300 subs - something like that should potentially work well in your room (my room is a similar length to yours but only half as wide and tall) System is designed for subs to go in the corners, and when setting up Room Perfect you can take measurements for multiple listening positions as well as a global (whole room) setting - RRP for the lot is £4k-ish but you get proper full range 20hz-20khz sound that is nigh on impossible to achieve with conventional floorstanders without spending £££, ideal for your dub listening (and Lyngdorf CS is top notch should you ever have a query around set-up etc)

[DoubleSix]

Thanks! That’s a cool set up you have and appreciate the suggestion, haven’t seen those speakers before.

Right now, having done some more research and digested the views here, I’m leaning towards the KEF LS60 floor standers in white. For the following reasons:

- small footprint
- low bloat (no additional boxes required)
- powerful enough to fill space
- decent bass output
- recently discounted!
- the A500s are out of stock

My only reservation is the lack of proper room correction.

Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 8th April 07:30

[DoubleSix]

Although, ive just realised the Buchardt A10 exists…

[NDA]

DoubleSix said:

My only reservation is the lack of proper room correction.

I use 'Housecurve' for my LS60's - it's a mobile app that does room correction.

The KEF Connect app for the LS60's is extremely good, rock solid.

[Bonefish Blues]

DoubleSix said:

Thanks! That’s a cool set up you have and appreciate the suggestion, haven’t seen those speakers before.

Right now, having done some more research and digested the views here, I’m leaning towards the KEF LS60 floor standers in white. For the following reasons:

- small footprint
- low bloat (no additional boxes required)
- powerful enough to fill space
- decent bass output
- recently discounted!
- the A500s are out of stock

My only reservation is the lack of proper room correction.

Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 8th April 07:30

And some more in the last few days - 2 or 3 retailers have them down another couple of hundred, which may become the new price point. An awful lot of bang for.

ETA
This is a very good deal incl Kef Sub

https://petertyson.co.uk/kef-ls60-wireless-av-spea...

Edited by Bonefish Blues on Monday 8th April 09:08

[NDA]

Bonefish Blues said:

And some more in the last few days - 2 or 3 retailers have them down another couple of hundred, which may become the new price point. An awful lot of bang for.

I'm glad I paid £6k for mine!

KEF's marketing is great - I bought mine, registered them on their site and then they started sending me emails saying I could now buy them for £4,500. Thanks KEF, you made me feel special.

But... great speakers and no other kit needed. I use ROON to control them (which has a sophisticated DSP) and stream (via ROON) from Qobuz.

ETA, the package above is good.. I have the KC62 which really adds some extra weight to the sound.

[DoubleSix]

I still dont really understand what ROON is/offers.

[NDA]

DoubleSix said:

I still dont really understand what ROON is/offers.

If you have a large (ish) library, ROON organises it very well and blends it with Tidal or Qobuz.

It allows you to go down various rabbit holes with a bio of every musician, what else they've played on etc.

It controls a 'ROON end point' - this could be a streamer, amp, speaker... anything that's 'ROON Ready'.

It has a very sophisticated 'Precision Audio Control' - (sample rate conversions, EQ, convolution filters etc).

If you have a streamer that is Roon Ready, try a free trial. I am a huge fan, it does a lot.

However, if you don't have a library of music, it may not be worth it. Library management and blending that with Qobuz are the primary functions.

[stevoknevo]

DoubleSix said:

Thanks! That’s a cool set up you have and appreciate the suggestion, haven’t seen those speakers before.

Right now, having done some more research and digested the views here, I’m leaning towards the KEF LS60 floor standers in white. For the following reasons:

- small footprint
- low bloat (no additional boxes required)
- powerful enough to fill space
- decent bass output
- recently discounted!
- the A500s are out of stock

My only reservation is the lack of proper room correction.

Edited by DoubleSix on Monday 8th April 07:30

I was going to suggest the Buchardt A700 LE €6300 which has various master tunings (as you'll be aware of from looking at the A500 & Anni 10) or the Dynaudio Focus 30 £6.5k which has Dirac room correction on board, but hadn't realised the LS60 had dropped in price so quickly from their £6k launch and are currently £4.3k most places!

John Darko done a review of the A700 (not the LE) and compared them against the LS60 and Focus 30 but he also has separate reviews of the LS60 and Focus 30 - https://youtu.be/wBteHbD06X8

[toon10]

A well put together separates system will give you better sound and allow for individual upgrades over time to improve on it but you will pay good money and run the risk of system mismatching.

I have a hybrid system as my main one. I use an all-in-one Naim Unity Nova as my integrated amp and streamer, but I have a separate record player with power pack and an old CD player too. It sounds good and has plenty of punch but as ever, my speakers are the weak link and I need to upgrade at some point.

In my den, I have a Yamaha RN602 and some old Tannoy speakers. Like the Nova, it has USB connections, streamer, internet radio, DAB, etc. Plug and play.

For a good looking, functional setup for limited space, I'd probably buy a Naim Atom and some good speakers or some active speakers with good network and connectivity options. I'm not hung up on the "you must have separates" debate. You get functionality, design and simplicity with an all in one and the better ones give you better sound than some of the separates systems I've heard too.

[NDA]

toon10 said:

A well put together separates system will give you better sound and allow for individual upgrades over time to improve on it ....

..... I'm not hung up on the "you must have separates" debate. You get functionality, design and simplicity with an all in one and the better ones give you better sound than some of the separates systems I've heard too.

I'm nearly in agreement with you.

Active speakers have multiple and perfectly matched amplification - also crossovers (before the amplifiers) have advantages too.

But.... I agree that being locked into a streamer and DAC (within the speaker) could have future limitations. In my own example, where I'm very pleased with the sound of the LS60's, I would quite like to try the NAD M66 (for example), but there's no point - it's all in the 60's.

I would be more interested in powered speakers in the future (as I'm sold on the advantages of actives), where the amplification is built in, but you get to choose the front end - it's the front end that is changing so rapidly at the moment.

[d_a_n1979]

NDA said:

toon10 said:

A well put together separates system will give you better sound and allow for individual upgrades over time to improve on it ....

..... I'm not hung up on the "you must have separates" debate. You get functionality, design and simplicity with an all in one and the better ones give you better sound than some of the separates systems I've heard too.

I'm nearly in agreement with you.

Active speakers have multiple and perfectly matched amplification - also crossovers (before the amplifiers) have advantages too.

But.... I agree that being locked into a streamer and DAC (within the speaker) could have future limitations. In my own example, where I'm very pleased with the sound of the LS60's, I would quite like to try the NAD M66 (for example), but there's no point - it's all in the 60's.

I would be more interested in powered speakers in the future (as I'm sold on the advantages of actives), where the amplification is built in, but you get to choose the front end - it's the front end that is changing so rapidly at the moment.

This is why I went studio monitors as they just have the amps; the front end I look after (in my case SMSL SU9 DAC, XLR outs to speakers, USB in from my M2 Mac Mini Pro etc)

It was the KEF LS50 actives that put me off 'hifi powered speakers', they just sounded too coloured to my ears unfortunately

Amazed at the difference between their sound and the KEF R300s I had and then the R3s...

[71Flipper]

DoubleSix said:

No doubt.

However, to clarify, i have restricted space to place the tech, but a large room space to fill with sound. Double height room 6mx9m…

Not sure the KEFs would fill it.

How about LS60’s? They have a fairly small footprint.

[71Flipper]

71Flipper said:

How about LS60’s? They have a fairly small footprint.

Apologies, I should have read the whole thread first. I would have seen they have already been suggested.

I admit I am a KEF fan. I have a 5.1 with R7s as front and R3s on the rear coupled with a Hegel 190 to power the fronts when I’m just listening to music. I love them, but I have often toyed with the idea of getting rid of them all and just getting the LS60s as they will certainly take up far less space.

The main thing to consider is what are you using to playback your music and what mediums are you interested in using.

I’m my man cave I just wanted to stream and connect to a TV so I have a 30yr old Cyrus 2 amp with a PSX power supply, Bluesound node and Dali Opticon MkII. I really can’t fault that either. It sounds far better than I imagined it could.

I used to have a really awkward room like yours too, the thing that I felt really helped me was a sub just to help fill the sound out. Sadly I don’t live in that house any more, the ex kept it…….