TVR Racing - Your thoughts please
Discussion
I'm trying to gauge the feelings and consensus of TVR owners and enthusiasts with regard to their interest (or lack of) in spectating (or even taking part in) the TVR Challenge race series. The reason I ask is that not that long ago (2009/10), the series regularly attracted a not insignificant number of TVR loving spectators. I remember the grass bank overlooking Cascades at Oulton Park being full of TVR cars watching the racing. These last couple of years, we are lucky if we see a small handful of TVR owners/enthusiasts at each meeting, and they appear to be the same lovely people each time! I'm wondering why this is.
Are the newer (perhaps younger) breed of TVR owners oblivious to TVR's racing heritage? Have they no knowledge of the Dunlop TVR Challenge, or recollection of the TVR Championship and the fact that the Tuscan Challenge was the largest and most exciting single make race series in its time? Are there too many other conflicting TVR events in the calendar? Surely, congregating at a TVR race meeting is far more exciting than standing around the car park of some country house admiring each others peckers, isn't it? The lack of support the race series and its drivers garner from the TVR massive is very frustrating and I would like to know whether this is the fault of the race series not promoting itself effectively enough, the TVRCC not promoting the series well enough (although we have wonderful coverage and race reports in Sprint), the RO's not placing it high enough on their individual club calendars, or simply just a general apathy within the TVR community in recent years.
The current race series has four classes, all racing at the same time. Sagaris bodied, fully aero'd up GT cars with AJP or LS7 thunder and flames, original Tuscan Challenge race cars with either race AJP or Rover V8 lumps, Jason Clegg's stunning S6 Tuscan, sexy Griff's, unbelievably fast and competitive Chimaera's (including one being driven by a former professional NASCAR driver), and last but not least (the little train that could).... the wonderful Tasmin wedges! We always extend a warm welcome to visitors wishing to look at and talk about the cars in the drivers paddock and/or pit garages (organisers allowing), so please come along and introduce yourselves. We'd love to see you.
Your thoughts and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated, either on here or discreetly by PM to me directly. Many thanks.
P.S. A huge, warm thanks to those who DO make the effort and show their support at the race tracks. It is so greatly appreciated. You know who you are
Are the newer (perhaps younger) breed of TVR owners oblivious to TVR's racing heritage? Have they no knowledge of the Dunlop TVR Challenge, or recollection of the TVR Championship and the fact that the Tuscan Challenge was the largest and most exciting single make race series in its time? Are there too many other conflicting TVR events in the calendar? Surely, congregating at a TVR race meeting is far more exciting than standing around the car park of some country house admiring each others peckers, isn't it? The lack of support the race series and its drivers garner from the TVR massive is very frustrating and I would like to know whether this is the fault of the race series not promoting itself effectively enough, the TVRCC not promoting the series well enough (although we have wonderful coverage and race reports in Sprint), the RO's not placing it high enough on their individual club calendars, or simply just a general apathy within the TVR community in recent years.
The current race series has four classes, all racing at the same time. Sagaris bodied, fully aero'd up GT cars with AJP or LS7 thunder and flames, original Tuscan Challenge race cars with either race AJP or Rover V8 lumps, Jason Clegg's stunning S6 Tuscan, sexy Griff's, unbelievably fast and competitive Chimaera's (including one being driven by a former professional NASCAR driver), and last but not least (the little train that could).... the wonderful Tasmin wedges! We always extend a warm welcome to visitors wishing to look at and talk about the cars in the drivers paddock and/or pit garages (organisers allowing), so please come along and introduce yourselves. We'd love to see you.
Your thoughts and/or suggestions are greatly appreciated, either on here or discreetly by PM to me directly. Many thanks.
P.S. A huge, warm thanks to those who DO make the effort and show their support at the race tracks. It is so greatly appreciated. You know who you are
Hi Mark
That's a very interesting question and let me try to answer it as both an individual and as an RO.
As an individual I have been to the TVR racing a couple of times and if I was going to be totally frank
I found it a bit boring. Ok, racing is not my thing - I'll fully admit that - but driving 2-3 hours to a track
to watch cars go around in circles for a period of time, quickly lost my interest - and those I was there
with when I went with them. In the end we ended up talking about other subjects while the race was
going on and totally forgot about it. We did go down and visit the race area once and got interested in
the cars, but for me, unless I'm doing it, it lost my interest.
Now as an RO, I have several dilemmas to deal with. I have tried on various times in the past to promote
the TVR racing as an event to go and see but received little to no interest from the regions I manage. As such,
after trying to do it a few times, I stopped promoting it. Again, if people are not interested, then I'm not
going to spend time trying to flog a dead horse. I think there has to be a base ground swelling of people
wanting to do it for it to feature as an event. If that interest is not there, then I'm going to focus my
time elsewhere.
If I was going to be brutally honest, people are either interested in it or not. And from my experience
- at least with the folks I work with - only a very few are.
Thanks
That's a very interesting question and let me try to answer it as both an individual and as an RO.
As an individual I have been to the TVR racing a couple of times and if I was going to be totally frank
I found it a bit boring. Ok, racing is not my thing - I'll fully admit that - but driving 2-3 hours to a track
to watch cars go around in circles for a period of time, quickly lost my interest - and those I was there
with when I went with them. In the end we ended up talking about other subjects while the race was
going on and totally forgot about it. We did go down and visit the race area once and got interested in
the cars, but for me, unless I'm doing it, it lost my interest.
Now as an RO, I have several dilemmas to deal with. I have tried on various times in the past to promote
the TVR racing as an event to go and see but received little to no interest from the regions I manage. As such,
after trying to do it a few times, I stopped promoting it. Again, if people are not interested, then I'm not
going to spend time trying to flog a dead horse. I think there has to be a base ground swelling of people
wanting to do it for it to feature as an event. If that interest is not there, then I'm going to focus my
time elsewhere.
If I was going to be brutally honest, people are either interested in it or not. And from my experience
- at least with the folks I work with - only a very few are.
Thanks
Edited by alex_gray255 on Thursday 29th January 19:52
Could you give us a brief run down of what an "average" race day would consist of? How many races, how many laps, other types of car sharing that meeting etc.
Are they generally practice Saturday, race Sunday?
A guide to ticket prices? I don't expect to be allowed into the pits but does an entry ticket normally give admission to the paddock? Are Grandstands free at this level of racing?
I appreciate I could probably answer all these questions with a bit of "Googling" but if you can answer "off the top of your head" and bring all the answers together in one place that would be very helpful
phillpot said:
Could you give us a brief run down of what an "average" race day would consist of? How many races, how many laps, other types of car sharing that meeting etc.
Are they generally practice Saturday, race Sunday?
A guide to ticket prices? I don't expect to be allowed into the pits but does an entry ticket normally give admission to the paddock? Are Grandstands free at this level of racing?
I appreciate I could probably answer all these questions with a bit of "Googling" but if you can answer "off the top of your head" and bring all the answers together in one place that would be very helpful
Try here...Are they generally practice Saturday, race Sunday?
A guide to ticket prices? I don't expect to be allowed into the pits but does an entry ticket normally give admission to the paddock? Are Grandstands free at this level of racing?
I appreciate I could probably answer all these questions with a bit of "Googling" but if you can answer "off the top of your head" and bring all the answers together in one place that would be very helpful
http://www.tvrchampionship.co.uk
DTEC is the usual keyword I used.
phillpot said:
Could you give us a brief run down of what an "average" race day would consist of? How many races, how many laps, other types of car sharing that meeting etc.
Are they generally practice Saturday, race Sunday?
A guide to ticket prices? I don't expect to be allowed into the pits but does an entry ticket normally give admission to the paddock? Are Grandstands free at this level of racing?
I appreciate I could probably answer all these questions with a bit of "Googling" but if you can answer "off the top of your head" and bring all the answers together in one place that would be very helpful
Race meetings are usually made up of:Are they generally practice Saturday, race Sunday?
A guide to ticket prices? I don't expect to be allowed into the pits but does an entry ticket normally give admission to the paddock? Are Grandstands free at this level of racing?
I appreciate I could probably answer all these questions with a bit of "Googling" but if you can answer "off the top of your head" and bring all the answers together in one place that would be very helpful
1x 20min Qually and 1x 20min Race 1 on the Saturday.
1x 20min Race 2 on the Sunday.
I appreciate that at some meetings there can be a long wait between Qualifying and Race 1, but this time is filled with other racing on the same card. There may be 8 or 9 other championships on the race card, they usually include:
Formula Ford 1600cc Championship
Formula Jedi (you just have to see these)
Fun Cup (VW Beetle silhouetted race cars - very quick and no holds barred)
Porsche Championship
MX5 Championship
Alfa Romeo Championship
Caterham Academy
Ford XR Challenge
Fiesta Championship
Mighty Mini's
I believe ticket prices are circa £15 for the day.
Granstand seats are usually available at no additional charge. I know Silverstone and Snetterton are usually free.
Anglesey tends to be really exciting racing on a truly wonderful racetrack. Every year in August we have a Triple Header (qualifying and 3 races). Great camping, entertainment in the bar till the early hours and racing within an epic backdrop.
The Dunlop TVR Challenge championship is affiliated with the BRSCC (British Racing and Sports Car Club). Details of all the types of series, calendar of events, prices etc. can be found at: www.brscc.co.uk
Although not fully confirmed yet, this years race dates are:
Rockingham Raceway - May 16-17th
Snetterton - June 27-28th
Anglesey - Aug 8-9th
Donington, Silverstone or Mallory Park - Sept date TBC
Oulton Park - Oct 17th
In addition to the above, TVR's will be competing in several series within the CSCC (Classic Sports Car Club) including Modern Classics, Future Classics, New Millennium Series and Swinging Sixties. Even more exciting, a number of the TVR drivers and cars will be racing the worlds favourite F1 GP racetrack at Spa Francorchamps this year at the Spa Summer Classic June 26-28th.
Finally, there are at present a number of fully prepared, race ready TVR racecars available for anybody wishing to give racing a go. These include bespoke "built to order" race Chimaera's by STR8SIX www.str8six.co.uk and CWR (Classic World Racing), www.classicworldracing.co.uk plus a selection of Tuscan Challenge and Tasmin race cars.
Edited by YRRunner on Thursday 29th January 18:06
I went to Snetterton last year on the Saturday, with spare free tickets from a friend of a friend of Jason Clegg, and also at the invitation of one of the competing teams, where I kept myself occupied in the morning taking wheels on and off a Tuscan racer and helping to bleed the brakes.
Even though I was involved with one of the teams, I have to say that the supporting race programme really dragged, and reminded me why I don't even bother to watch touring cars on the telly when they show the entire race. For me it's a bit like football - best condensed down from 90 minutes to 90 seconds, and with 27 cameras catching the best bits.
I did enjoy the Tuscan Challenge race, especially when the Griff and one of the Chimaeras made a good start, and then later in the race watching the top two dicing for the lead, but seeing the Griff being recovered to the paddock with the arse end missing reminded me of the harsh reality of racing - it's an expensive business. Even the race entry fees made me wince - I could do two track days for what it costs just to be on the grid at one weekend.
For me the highlights were learning new words from Martin Crass after a particularly disappointing practice session
, and spending a couple of enjoyable hours standing on the bank watching the cars come around Corams while talking to Braders, the guy who owns the Vulcan Tuscan. What a car.
Even though I was involved with one of the teams, I have to say that the supporting race programme really dragged, and reminded me why I don't even bother to watch touring cars on the telly when they show the entire race. For me it's a bit like football - best condensed down from 90 minutes to 90 seconds, and with 27 cameras catching the best bits.
I did enjoy the Tuscan Challenge race, especially when the Griff and one of the Chimaeras made a good start, and then later in the race watching the top two dicing for the lead, but seeing the Griff being recovered to the paddock with the arse end missing reminded me of the harsh reality of racing - it's an expensive business. Even the race entry fees made me wince - I could do two track days for what it costs just to be on the grid at one weekend.
For me the highlights were learning new words from Martin Crass after a particularly disappointing practice session
, and spending a couple of enjoyable hours standing on the bank watching the cars come around Corams while talking to Braders, the guy who owns the Vulcan Tuscan. What a car.Edited by QBee on Friday 30th January 16:44
Playing Devils Ad, I would like to ask: What Is it that you are doing to engage with owners and make them feel wanted and engaged?
Most of these events are run on a 'Field of Dreams' basis and wonder why only a small die hard group make the effort. The fact is that you are wanting to attract the transient kind of chap.
Anyone who owns or has owned a TIv would be interested in the Challenge so you have to ask what is it that you have done wrong or not done to get them to come along?
Is there an App containing all the dates, details of all the cars etc? Does it have push notifications?
What are the prizes for spectators and the competitions?
What do you do to engage with all the people who are interested to get them to make the effort to come and see what you are doing?
ITs all in the hands of the TC as to whether people who are interested decide to make the effort to go and watch it.
Start by telling people how to download the app.
Most of these events are run on a 'Field of Dreams' basis and wonder why only a small die hard group make the effort. The fact is that you are wanting to attract the transient kind of chap.
Anyone who owns or has owned a TIv would be interested in the Challenge so you have to ask what is it that you have done wrong or not done to get them to come along?
Is there an App containing all the dates, details of all the cars etc? Does it have push notifications?
What are the prizes for spectators and the competitions?
What do you do to engage with all the people who are interested to get them to make the effort to come and see what you are doing?
ITs all in the hands of the TC as to whether people who are interested decide to make the effort to go and watch it.
Start by telling people how to download the app.
I used to love going to watch the TVR racing, with trips to Anglesea one of my favourites, however, every event now is up north, whats wrong with brands hatch and castle combe, to damned expensive a treck for me from the Isle of Wight just to watch a 20 minute race. I used to cover quite a few miles to watch races, only to find a very small grid which was very disappointing, hope things are better now though.
Also playing DA, what's to attract people coming if they are not that much into racing, but prefer maybe social side or something of technical interest? Remember, you are having to contend with lots of events and pressures on people's time.
You need to find something or a combination of something that will attract people to come. As an RO I need to sell the
event. What can you do to help me do that?
Happy to bounce ideas if you want, Mark, but I think those are the types of questions you need to start looking at.
I'll also ping my regions and see if they have any input. They are the target market after all.
You have a product you need to sell. Ask yourself what it is the target audience wants, then do what you can to
try and cater to that more rather than just offering the same thing and wonder why people drift away.
Just some thoughts if they help...
/EndEbilMode
You need to find something or a combination of something that will attract people to come. As an RO I need to sell the
event. What can you do to help me do that?
Happy to bounce ideas if you want, Mark, but I think those are the types of questions you need to start looking at.
I'll also ping my regions and see if they have any input. They are the target market after all.
You have a product you need to sell. Ask yourself what it is the target audience wants, then do what you can to
try and cater to that more rather than just offering the same thing and wonder why people drift away.
Just some thoughts if they help...
/EndEbilMode
Edited by alex_gray255 on Saturday 31st January 11:31
Go to a horse race meeting for inspiration.....?
Newmarket Summer evenings come to mind.....plenty of corporate hostility, a concert with a decent name band afterwards, gambling, decent food, and most important, big TV screens so you can see what's happening. They do have some kind of camera coverage at most motor race circuits (go to the tower at Snetterton and you will see a big bank of screens for the clerk of the coarse, watching the entire circuit), but in this TV age we need to be able to follow the action, not just watch a procession coming past 12 times in 25 minutes, followed by a yawn inducing wait for the next race.
And they aren't stupid in the horse world - the races follow each other pretty quickly, so you don't have time to get bored.
How do they manage to get such big crowds at motor race meetings in the USA?
Newmarket Summer evenings come to mind.....plenty of corporate hostility, a concert with a decent name band afterwards, gambling, decent food, and most important, big TV screens so you can see what's happening. They do have some kind of camera coverage at most motor race circuits (go to the tower at Snetterton and you will see a big bank of screens for the clerk of the coarse, watching the entire circuit), but in this TV age we need to be able to follow the action, not just watch a procession coming past 12 times in 25 minutes, followed by a yawn inducing wait for the next race.
And they aren't stupid in the horse world - the races follow each other pretty quickly, so you don't have time to get bored.
How do they manage to get such big crowds at motor race meetings in the USA?
alex_gray255 said:
Also playing DA, what's to attract people coming if they are not that much into racing, but prefer maybe social side or something of technical interest? Remember, you are having to contend with lots of events and pressures on people's time.
You need to find something or a combination of something that will attract people to come. As an RO I need to sell the
event. What can you do to help me do that?
Happy to bounce ideas if you want, Mark, but I think those are the types of questions you need to start looking at.
I'll also ping my regions and see if they have any input. They are the target market after all.
You have a product you need to sell. Ask yourself what it is the target audience wants, then do what you can to
try and cater to that more rather than just offering the same thing and wonder why people drift away.
Just some thoughts if they help...
/EndEbilMode
I'd get more pleasure standing under an awning, eating a bacon butty and chatting to other TVR owners than faffing about waiting. And I'd certainly be interested in being shown round race cars etc. You need to find something or a combination of something that will attract people to come. As an RO I need to sell the
event. What can you do to help me do that?
Happy to bounce ideas if you want, Mark, but I think those are the types of questions you need to start looking at.
I'll also ping my regions and see if they have any input. They are the target market after all.
You have a product you need to sell. Ask yourself what it is the target audience wants, then do what you can to
try and cater to that more rather than just offering the same thing and wonder why people drift away.
Just some thoughts if they help...
/EndEbilMode
Edited by alex_gray255 on Saturday 31st January 11:31
The best regional meets tend to exist because one person makes a big effort to engage with everyone using social media etc
The Tuscan Challenge is brilliant but I've never got the feeling that they are doing much or anything for the spectators or potential spectators.
Obviously, I may be completely wrong but I'm just working on the basis that I own a TVR and never really hear anything about the TC or any reason to take a whole day out to watch a 20 minute race etc.
Hi
I have to say, there is one Tuscan racer that posts quite regularly on the TVRCC about his exploits. I don't know enough whether he completes in the Challenge, but he always gets support and encouragement. Maybe time committing, some of you can post up om here or the TVRCC telling us how your getting on throughout the year.I appreciate you have your own Forum, but maybe folk don't go on there much.
Coops
I have to say, there is one Tuscan racer that posts quite regularly on the TVRCC about his exploits. I don't know enough whether he completes in the Challenge, but he always gets support and encouragement. Maybe time committing, some of you can post up om here or the TVRCC telling us how your getting on throughout the year.I appreciate you have your own Forum, but maybe folk don't go on there much.
Coops
I've sent out an email to all my regions to see if anyone has any thoughts/input etc.
But I'm like you, I would be interested in going if there was something other than driving
for a couple of hours to a place, then having to stand around for X hours more only to
watch 20 mins or so of action occasionally.
I like talking techie with people and swapping ideas and/or the social side. I think if there
was more of that or the opportunity for more of that, then maybe more people would be
interested.
But just my opinion
But I'm like you, I would be interested in going if there was something other than driving
for a couple of hours to a place, then having to stand around for X hours more only to
watch 20 mins or so of action occasionally.
I like talking techie with people and swapping ideas and/or the social side. I think if there
was more of that or the opportunity for more of that, then maybe more people would be
interested.
But just my opinion
As a driver in DTEC (that of the Griff that ended Snett with no arse end last year!!) I myst say that anyone who comes to our camp is made very welcome!! Even after the accident I was still smiling and joking about (that damage ended up costing 4-5k to fix!!).
With regards to apps etc - there isnt anything as yet but plans are afoot to make the website much more appealing and more updates etc. Maybe this is something the tvrcc could work together with both dtec and the sprint series??
Also, we always have hospitality at races - tvrcc members are welcome to visit and enjoy free tea/coffee. Most (though not all) of the drivers spanner themselves and so can talk technical, and some of the top TVR mechanics work on other cars so are always on hand to chat to about your own TVR too!
We have no control over the time between racee, the circuit sort this (safety comes first!!). Last year Rockingham did have a music festival over the weekend but again circuit sorted. And as for Northern meetings?? I live in Durham, proper North of England and everything is south!! This is the first year I can remember with no Brands but I appreciate anywhere is a treck from IoW lol.
In a nutshell, it would be great if we could get more.TVR enthusiastic people to go and cheer us on. Maybe the TVRCC could sort free/discounted tickets to ROs to distribute? And when you are there make sure you pop over and say hi to our camp (Red Griff #93) - always friendly always have beer and your welcome.to look over and sit in the car if you wish!!
Hope.to see.more of you at the races!!!
Dave
With regards to apps etc - there isnt anything as yet but plans are afoot to make the website much more appealing and more updates etc. Maybe this is something the tvrcc could work together with both dtec and the sprint series??
Also, we always have hospitality at races - tvrcc members are welcome to visit and enjoy free tea/coffee. Most (though not all) of the drivers spanner themselves and so can talk technical, and some of the top TVR mechanics work on other cars so are always on hand to chat to about your own TVR too!
We have no control over the time between racee, the circuit sort this (safety comes first!!). Last year Rockingham did have a music festival over the weekend but again circuit sorted. And as for Northern meetings?? I live in Durham, proper North of England and everything is south!! This is the first year I can remember with no Brands but I appreciate anywhere is a treck from IoW lol.
In a nutshell, it would be great if we could get more.TVR enthusiastic people to go and cheer us on. Maybe the TVRCC could sort free/discounted tickets to ROs to distribute? And when you are there make sure you pop over and say hi to our camp (Red Griff #93) - always friendly always have beer and your welcome.to look over and sit in the car if you wish!!
Hope.to see.more of you at the races!!!
Dave
ctsdave said:
Maybe the TVRCC could sort free/discounted tickets to ROs to distribute?
That was tried previously as I remember sending out the details to folks a couple of times - it did not makea difference I'm afraid.
But, some good thoughts there.
I'm getting feedback from a few in my region now. Will post their thoughts/comments when I have a good amount
of them.
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