Louis Theroux: Miami Mega Jail

[Halb]

Mr E Driver said:

Also when Louis asks a question he listens to the reply and when the guy stops talking he waits like a reporter should. More often than not the inmate feels he has to say something, basic interview technique instead of the interviewing method utilised by the entire reminder of the reporting/news world.

EFA.

[Strangely Brown]

Chad_Hugo said:

Agree with both points above, to me it seemed like the boot camp was just a mix of harsh discipline and glorified brainwashing, such as forcing someone to list 18 leadership qualities while virtualy screaming at them- the inmates are just blindly repeating what they have been spoon fed. They probably don't believe in, or even care what they are saying.

No less dehumanising in some ways than prison, and I have doubts as to how effective this is long or even medium term. I missed the first few minutes so perhaps they mentioned some data being available on re-offending of people completing the full program in a particular age group?

From the outside looking in Louis assesment seemed correct- completing the bootcamp is more a sign of adapting to temporary circumstances than any change in mentality.

Ding! He got it absolutely spot on with that one, simple observation. Boot Camp is exactly the same as Main Jail: those most likely to survive are those that are most adaptable.

It was quite obvious from Louis' interaction with the "model recruit" that there was no change in the underlying value set. He still held the same truths as before and as soon as he is returned to a "street" environment, he would quickly adapt back to that. You could see the intense loathing that was held for anyone that "snitched", regardless of evidence or circumstance and no amount of shouting or press-ups is going to change that. The same applies to the idea that if someone disrespects you (whatever form that may take in the eyes of the dispespectee), you have to attack them. That kind of mentality cannot be reasoned with.

For a place like Boot Camp to work, you have to want to be there in the first place. i.e. there has to be a change in values to start with, and, if that's the case, then other methods may be equally as effective.

Edited by Strangely Brown on Wednesday 1st June 08:14

[g4ry13]

thehawk said:

i'd be scared myself, but realistically I guess the risk is very minimal. Majority of the guys in there are plain criminals, not psychopaths, they might be in there for murder etc but 99% it would have been murder for a reason - gang war, robbery gone wrong etc. There is no benefit to any of them to harm an unarmed journalist who isn't a fellow prisoner (and he probably had several guards behind the camera anyway)

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

[Halb]

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

[g4ry13]

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

[carmonk]

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

[Halb]

carmonk said:

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

I don't agree. I think he is the ultimate reporter, and does what a lot of people have forgotten what reporting is.

[carmonk]

Halb said:

carmonk said:

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

I don't agree. I think he is the ultimate reporter, and does what a lot of people have forgotten what reporting is.

I never suggested otherwise.

[Halb]

carmonk said:

Halb said:

carmonk said:

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

I don't agree. I think he is the ultimate reporter, and does what a lot of people have forgotten what reporting is.

I never suggested otherwise.

A reporter doesn't have a persona (unless asking questions is a persona), he merely reports, and I do not think he pretends to be confused, just gets clarification after clarification after clarification to the nth degree, I do not think he is playing a 'part'. That is where I disagree.

[carmonk]

Halb said:

carmonk said:

Halb said:

carmonk said:

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

I don't agree. I think he is the ultimate reporter, and does what a lot of people have forgotten what reporting is.

I never suggested otherwise.

A reporter doesn't have a persona (unless asking questions is a persona), he merely reports, and I do not think he pretends to be confused, just gets clarification after clarification after clarification to the nth degree, I do not think he is playing a 'part'. That is where I disagree.

Thousands of people merely report, and do it well, the reason Louis T is so successful is that he gains the trust of the people he talks to and the way he does that is to appear inoffensive and somewhat bumbling. I'm not sure how you can watch him and think all he does is ask questions.

[Halb]

carmonk said:

Halb said:

carmonk said:

Halb said:

carmonk said:

g4ry13 said:

Halb said:

g4ry13 said:

I was reading in his article that when he was leaving a cell someone grabbed him and tried to pull him back in the cell as a joke but it shook him up as he didn't know how to take it at the time. There were other incidences where people tried to intimidate him so he was on edge some of the time.

is that linked in the thread?

I don't think so, I found it when looking up something. I know it's the sun but still. link

Bear in mind that his persona and to no small amount his success is based on him appearing vulnerable and a little confused and so very British, so that people don't see him as a threat and open up to him. In actual fact he's got monster brass balls and he plays a part.

I don't agree. I think he is the ultimate reporter, and does what a lot of people have forgotten what reporting is.

I never suggested otherwise.

A reporter doesn't have a persona (unless asking questions is a persona), he merely reports, and I do not think he pretends to be confused, just gets clarification after clarification after clarification to the nth degree, I do not think he is playing a 'part'. That is where I disagree.

Thousands of people merely report, and do it well, the reason Louis T is so successful is that he gains the trust of the people he talks to and the way he does that is to appear inoffensive and somewhat bumbling. I'm not sure how you can watch him and think all he does is ask questions.

I think he is highly skilled, it takes skill just to ask questions. There are lots of reporters yes, but the majority of them have a view to push (somes on purpose sometimes involuntarily) or they become part of the story, even if they don't wish to. Louis is there to report and record, like an alien has bene dropped into the middle of humans, he doesn't lay any kind of bias/spin on anything. He makes me think that somebody crushed up a recorder and squeezed out the essence of that into a human shape, placed there not to interact but just observe. Like William De Worde or The Watcher

edit
he pretty much acts as I think the perfect reporter should, not like those twonks on sky/bbc/itv who make me wanna grind up they faces every time they ask a stupid question and then don't listen to the answer just are ready with the next question. Or just wish to score points.

[carmonk]

Halb said:

I think he is highly skilled, it takes skill just to ask questions. There are lots of reporters yes, but the majority of them have a view to push (somes on purpose sometimes involuntarily) or they become part of the story, even if they don't wish to. Louis is there to report and record, like an alien has bene dropped into the middle of humans, he doesn't lay any kind of bias/spin on anything. He makes me think that somebody crushed up a recorder and squeezed out the essence of that into a human shape, placed there not to interact but just observe. Like William De Worde or The Watcher

edit
he pretty much acts as I think the perfect reporter should, not like those twonks on sky/bbc/itv who make me wanna grind up they faces every time they ask a stupid question and then don't listen to the answer just are ready with the next question. Or just wish to score points.

I don't question he does these things, but you have to ask yourself how he's able to repeatedly delve into the business of very dangerous people without being shot or stabbed on the spot, and the answer is that he puts them at their ease. That's not because of who he is, it's a result of a very clever cultivation of a persona. They think he's a bit of a timid Brit out of his depth whilst trying to appear earnest so they open up to him (the Phelps family said as much on his second visit, that initially they thought he wasn't a threat then realised that he actually knew exactly what he was doing). It's very much the Columbo style of investigation. You only had to watch the SA episodes where he's there in the midst of serious violence and leading the way into a derelict gang-infested apartment block to see he's really not the nervous type.

[Halb]

carmonk said:

I don't question he does these things, but you have to ask yourself how he's able to repeatedly delve into the business of very dangerous people without being shot or stabbed on the spot, and the answer is that he puts them at their ease. That's not because of who he is, it's a result of a very clever cultivation of a persona. They think he's a bit of a timid Brit out of his depth whilst trying to appear earnest so they open up to him (the Phelps family said as much on his second visit, that initially they thought he wasn't a threat then realised that he actually knew exactly what he was doing). It's very much the Columbo style of investigation. You only had to watch the SA episodes where he's there in the midst of serious violence and leading the way into a derelict gang-infested apartment block to see he's really not the nervous type.

Yeh I agree he puts people at their ease., and that allows him access, more so now he is a brand that is known. What you think is his persona, is who I think he is, I think he is that person or in other words it is not put on.
I do think you're right aboot the Colombo thing, I'm a fan of Colombo as well. I think in that show as well his opponents in the end thought Colombo was pretending to be something he was not (a stupid flatfoot), I think he was just being himself and he doesn't bother with how society expects him to act. I remember when Louis took on Clifford. Clifford tried to be a st and made Louis part of the story, which made Louis incredibly uncomfortable (for him anyway), the only other time he became part of the story (I think) was when he admitted to starting to like gambling.
I think he naturally has is the reporter and would be that person in most circumstances. Always looking in asking questions like a child. I think when we see he is nervous, that means he really is nervous, that's the impression I got from the gaol anyway.
Anyway, it's just my theory;)

Edited by Halb on Wednesday 1st June 20:55

[Lordbenny]

thehawk said:

can white guys be a "nigga" if you prove yourself?

I was regularly called 'nigga' by black guys in my line of work - 15 years selling imported American hip-hop, house, soul & reggae to London record shops! I suppose you're right, I was damned good at it.

[Halb]

Repeated tonight at 10, on Really.

Damn good doc.

[anonymous-user]

Just put this on on Netflix (have seen it before though) and had a google around to see what became of Nianthony Martinez. Found this thread and I also found:

http://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/community/mi...

Pretty serious, but 25 years for attempted murder is longer than some people get for murder here isn't it?

Also I have no idea what gaming or World of Warcraft has to do with any of it.