Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...

Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...

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Discussion

Rick_1138

3,656 posts

177 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
The main beef i had with the film is the lack of a cohesive plot, and like LOST giving many questions but never answers, this just anoys me, and as i found out, many others.

I saw this in the cinema and was amazed at the visuals in 3D (of which few films actually utilise properly), the premise of aliens leaving a message for man over the ages was interesting, and we knew that it was in the same "universe" as alien so we wanted to see how the ground may be laid for the films we know and love set in the future from this timeline of prometheus.

However after the ship lands on LV233 the film starts to die a death.

Landing on the planet we find a huge "metal" structure handily, and that "god doesnt build in straight lines".

We land on the planet and after about 5 minutes, we dive into taking buggies and vans to the "boob" shaped mountain. no pretence at checking for viruses on the planet before landing, no planning of what we will do when out there.

When running around the caverns, David seems to know exactly what to do to operate the alien tech, even though mankind has never even remotely been involved with the technology before, its not like a conspiracy of the weyland corp to have used some before, its the first encounter.

Why is the geologist the one who gets lost, he has the tools to create the map!!

when the snake\face rape scene happens, why does the Biologist keep trying to pet the quite obviously aggressive and totally alien animal, fo all he knows it could have a poison that can be spit and kill him in about 5 seconds!! It just didnt sit well.

when the character who David infected with the black fluid turned and had to be burned, i thought it was him doing the crab walk\attack later on, i had to be told later ina review that, that character was the geologist! I found out later a few of my mates thought the same.

The aliens themselves dont explain much, and when it does revive and weyalnd confronts it, it 'kills' david and the weyland and storms off, we are led to assume it is to bomb earth.

but the main question in all of this is WHY!, why does any of it happen, why are they doing things like they are.

The whole film left a WTF feeling, and i know i am not the only one.

The last 2 minutes of the film should have been left out as Ridley and the cast kept saying "its not an alien prequel" well if thats the case, why have the final scene, it was all just a mess.

Now that they have confirmed a sequal, amybe trilogy, it may flesh out the ideas from the first, but i am not holding my breath.

y2blade

56,029 posts

214 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
hmmmmmmm, Not worth buying on Monday then?

arfur

3,871 posts

213 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
y2blade said:
hmmmmmmm, Not worth buying on Monday then?
I bought it ... had not seen it at the cinema.

Worth 14 quid ? Yes ... was still nice entertainment for a Monday night with the missus and couple of the kids (mid/late teens).

I tend to pre-order various things from Amazon, I dont even take a note of the release date, so it's often a nice suprise when "stuff" turns up

Aphex

2,160 posts

199 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
y2blade said:
hmmmmmmm, Not worth buying on Monday then?
I thought it was great. However, due to the way it has been edited you do need to fill in the blanks on your own which is a shame.

I haven't had a chance to watch my blu ray with all the deleted bits yet but hold some hope that a few minor things were left out which would have made it easier to watch.

I felt the descent to the planet surface had been cut to maintain tension which is something alot of the people here have an issue with. Also the geologist scene could have been so much better if they went for their partially filmed alternate scene.

Ho hum, I still rate it as a top class sci fi and eagerly await the sequel.

KaraK

13,177 posts

208 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
DrTre said:
otolith said:
Loads more, but I prefer to sit back, suspend disbelief and enjoy the films!
Honestly, when I'm watching a film I actively want to, and find it incredibly easy to, sit back and switch off my critical faculties (not difficult, I admit, I'm like a labrador most of the time) then just watch and absorb. I'm surprised I don't leave the cinema with drool hanging from my mouth most of the time. Having said that, I don't think I'm stupid and I can cope happily without exposition and with ambiguity in a story. There's very little in Alien(s) that has ever caused me to double take and think WTF? Now, that's not to say those things don't exist, however, the pacing, the direction, the acting (and more importantly the fact I cared for/disliked the characters) and the storyline all combine to make me miss them and the whole, together, enables me to watch with disbelief fully suspended for the entirety of the film.

Prometheus couldn't be more of a contrast. It so frequently made me think WTF it was just distracting and spoilt the film. By the end of it I really couldn't give a toss who was dead or alive.

Despite what someone has said on this thread, no one is being "clever clever" in their criticism, if only because it doesn't require a towering intellect to find fault with the film so what would be the point in trying to suggest one was. After all, it's not like people voicing these criticisms are particularly few and far between.
yes

I can appreciate "enjoyable trash" films just as much as "clever" films (I enjoyed the Hugh Jackman Van Helsing FFS!)

To me Prometheus just didn't hang together on any level, about the only things it had going for it IMO were the stunning visuals and Michael Fassbender's performance. Although to be fair to the rest of the cast I don't think they were given much to work with - Charlize Theron and Idris Elba for example have proven track records and it's hard to imagine that anyone could have done a better job in their position.

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Aphex said:
I thought it was great. However, due to the way it has been edited you do need to fill in the blanks on your own which is a shame.

I haven't had a chance to watch my blu ray with all the deleted bits yet but hold some hope that a few minor things were left out which would have made it easier to watch.

I felt the descent to the planet surface had been cut to maintain tension which is something alot of the people here have an issue with.
I think there is no disagreement that it was visually stunning.

But, as others have said, there was far too much in the film. As you say, this could have been down to poor editing. Certainly for all its length it seemed like a longer film that had been pruned down.

I agree - a brief shot of the Prometheus in orbit and David scanning the surface and saying "found it!" would have been just the kind of thing that would have ended up on the cutting room floor. Although that doesn't excuse the characters acting in strange / odd / unbelievable / contradictory ways - that's poor writing.

ZesPak

24,421 posts

195 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Bedazzled said:
I can just imagine some creative luvvy waving his arms about in excitement in the production meeting saying "we simply must do this shot, a spaceship rolling across the planet; the audience will love it!" while the poor reserved chap piecing together the storyboard thinks "wtf?...seriously?!" but can't get a word in edgeways. It's the visuals that sells...
With this kind of film I can always imagine some buffs in a studio directing 3D-artists to make a trailer.
Once the trailer is finished, rolling spaceship and all, it goes to the storywriters to make it 2h long.

nick heppinstall

8,054 posts

279 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
the sulaco was a mining ship, so was huge for the purposes of storing ridiculous amounts of Ore and the equipment to extract and refine it.

the promethius was not a cargo ship.

it looked to have less storage space than the serenity.

it seemed setup for crew, and crew activities.. labs? recreation? fuel?
The Sulaco was the warship in Aliens. The Nostromo ( in Alien ) was a tug. It was towing the refinery.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Spiritual_Beggar said:
JonRB said:
One thing that fundamentally annoys me about Prometheus is the ship itself. It's so small. It makes no sense to bring all your eggs down in one basket. The Sulaco + dropship made far more sense. Likewise the interstellar ship in Avatar. Ok, in Alien the Nostromo went down to the surface - it was just the cargo they left up there. But even so.
That was always one thing I found a bit odd about Aliens;

The Sulaco always seemed too big for the amount for crew it had on board. Also, there was something of the 'Star-Trek' about everyone heading down to the surface and leaving this rather expensive military ship floating up in space unguarded.
the sulaco wasnt military, it was an old creaky mining ship... older than the ultra high-tech prometheus

JonRB

74,402 posts

271 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
the sulaco wasnt military, it was an old creaky mining ship... older than the ultra high-tech prometheus
Sulaco was the military transport for the Colonial Marines.

I think you're thinking of the Nostromo. Or possibly the Red Dwarf. smile

Halb

53,012 posts

182 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
It seems to be a warship with guns?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sulaco_%28spaceship%2...
Also as it's a starship it is newer than Prometheus. Prometheus was the first starship.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
ah yes, the nostramu.. thats the one... dont know why the sulaco name stuck in my head lol

glazbagun

14,259 posts

196 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
Spiritual_Beggar said:
JonRB said:
One thing that fundamentally annoys me about Prometheus is the ship itself. It's so small. It makes no sense to bring all your eggs down in one basket. The Sulaco + dropship made far more sense. Likewise the interstellar ship in Avatar. Ok, in Alien the Nostromo went down to the surface - it was just the cargo they left up there. But even so.
That was always one thing I found a bit odd about Aliens;

The Sulaco always seemed too big for the amount for crew it had on board. Also, there was something of the 'Star-Trek' about everyone heading down to the surface and leaving this rather expensive military ship floating up in space unguarded.
the sulaco wasnt military, it was an old creaky mining ship... older than the ultra high-tech prometheus
No, the mining ship was the Nostromo. The Sulaco was the warship from Aliens.

MocMocaMoc

1,524 posts

140 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Rick_1138 said:
The main beef i had with the film is the lack of a cohesive plot, and like LOST giving many questions but never answers, this just anoys me, and as i found out, many others.

I saw this in the cinema and was amazed at the visuals in 3D (of which few films actually utilise properly), the premise of aliens leaving a message for man over the ages was interesting, and we knew that it was in the same "universe" as alien so we wanted to see how the ground may be laid for the films we know and love set in the future from this timeline of prometheus.

However after the ship lands on LV233 the film starts to die a death.

Landing on the planet we find a huge "metal" structure handily, and that "god doesnt build in straight lines".

We land on the planet and after about 5 minutes, we dive into taking buggies and vans to the "boob" shaped mountain. no pretence at checking for viruses on the planet before landing, no planning of what we will do when out there.

When running around the caverns, David seems to know exactly what to do to operate the alien tech, even though mankind has never even remotely been involved with the technology before, its not like a conspiracy of the weyland corp to have used some before, its the first encounter.

Why is the geologist the one who gets lost, he has the tools to create the map!!

when the snake\face rape scene happens, why does the Biologist keep trying to pet the quite obviously aggressive and totally alien animal, fo all he knows it could have a poison that can be spit and kill him in about 5 seconds!! It just didnt sit well.

when the character who David infected with the black fluid turned and had to be burned, i thought it was him doing the crab walk\attack later on, i had to be told later ina review that, that character was the geologist! I found out later a few of my mates thought the same.

The aliens themselves dont explain much, and when it does revive and weyalnd confronts it, it 'kills' david and the weyland and storms off, we are led to assume it is to bomb earth.

but the main question in all of this is WHY!, why does any of it happen, why are they doing things like they are.

The whole film left a WTF feeling, and i know i am not the only one.

The last 2 minutes of the film should have been left out as Ridley and the cast kept saying "its not an alien prequel" well if thats the case, why have the final scene, it was all just a mess.

Now that they have confirmed a sequal, amybe trilogy, it may flesh out the ideas from the first, but i am not holding my breath.
"Landing on the planet we find a huge "metal" structure handily, and that "god doesnt build in straight lines"."

It was a military installation. The alien ships were all over the place, hence the roads.

"We land on the planet and after about 5 minutes, we dive into taking buggies and vans to the "boob" shaped mountain. no pretence at checking for viruses on the planet before landing, no planning of what we will do when out there."

As evidenced within the structure, they have atmosphere readers along with them, but also scan the planet from Prometheus. The crew suggest taking weapons, but the science team veto (OK, fairly stupid but the leader scientist based the entire expedition on faith... call it stupid, but stupider things have been done in the real world)

"When running around the caverns, David seems to know exactly what to do to operate the alien tech, even though mankind has never even remotely been involved with the technology before, its not like a conspiracy of the weyland corp to have used some before, its the first encounter."

David spent the entire trip learning every form of language. As humans were depicted, in cave paintings, worshipping the giant dudes it’s not a stretch to assume the languages developed on Earth are similar to that of the giant dudes native tongue.


"Why is the geologist the one who gets lost, he has the tools to create the map!!"

Because his tools were off scanning the ship back to Prometheus? He's also clearly an idiot, and stoned.

"when the snake\face rape scene happens, why does the Biologist keep trying to pet the quite obviously aggressive and totally alien animal, fo all he knows it could have a poison that can be spit and kill him in about 5 seconds!! It just didnt sit well."

I agree, this scene narked me too. But imagine a biologist spying an alien for the first time... he believes it's dazzled by his head torch, and cealrly overly excited. But yeah, the scene didnt work.

"when the character who David infected with the black fluid turned and had to be burned, i thought it was him doing the crab walk\attack later on, i had to be told later ina review that, that character was the geologist! I found out later a few of my mates thought the same."

Yeah, Charlize Theron saw him off. It did get kind of tricky keeping track of character names, at time.

"but the main question in all of this is WHY!, why does any of it happen, why are they doing things like they are."

We're shown earlier that the Big Dudes have been stockpiling the black goo, and that this goo isnt in anyway helpful to humans. Earth was clearly marked for course in the star map David discovers, it's not a huge stretch to assume that the Big Dudes are up to no good.

I really, really dont see these 'huge' plot holes that everyone seems to be lauding. We discover ominous cave paintings, we nash off to see what they're about, we discover that these Big Dudes are basically further evolved versions of ourselves, we make an educated guess as to that the Big Dudes are up to no good. In many ways it's a similar theme to the first three Alien films. The Company discover (in this case 'create') a species, plan to weaponise it, and a strong willed lass gets in the way. What's the problem?!

; )



MocMocaMoc

1,524 posts

140 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
SystemParanoia said:
the sulaco wasnt military, it was an old creaky mining ship... older than the ultra high-tech prometheus
IIRC the 'lander' from the Nostromo looked very similar to Prometheus?

Guvernator

13,105 posts

164 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
You seem to be making up your own story to fill in the glaring blanks that the film leaves behind.

The alien ships weren't "all over the place". In fact they didn't even know there were any ships at all until about 2/3 of the way into the film when the scanning drones have built up a picture and the captain makes one of those much talked of illogical leaps and states "it's a ship". How did he come to this conclusion just by looking at a circular shape on a computer screen? Yes he is the ships captain but considering the alien ship looks nothing like anything they would have encountered before that is an amazing leap of intuition.

They fly around a huge planet aimlessly for about 2 minutes and then immediately stumble upon the alien construction which is explained by a throwaway line, "god doesn't build straight lines". Do you realize how big a planet is? The chances of them stumbling upon one feature on an entire planet are remote in the extreme. It could have easily been explained but like many other things it isn't.

The geologist has a map on his wrist computer, generated by HIS devices but gets lost, however 5 minutes later the other team members have absolutely no problem finding there way back out again.

I can sort of forgive David being the able to work all the alien devices by the fact that he is supposed to be a super smart android but even this could have been handled better. OK it is stated that he has been studying up and can probably work out the alien language but on his first go? He just starts typing away on the first device he sees and hey presto it all works. A very quick 1 minute scene of him trying various things\combinations and then eventually working it out would have made it much more believable.

Like I said, I can forgive a lot while watching sci-fi but this film is just non-nonsensical. They seem to go from point A to C while totally missing point B which jars, as others have said it almost feels like huge bits of the film have been edited out. The plot for want of a better word is dumbed down to the extreme, non of the motivations of the characters are obvious or make sense except at the simplest level which is fine for popcorn fare but this is Ridley Scott movie and marketed as a more cerebral affair. To me it's painting by numbers sci-fi, as a prequel to the Alien movies I just expected more.

MocMocaMoc

1,524 posts

140 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Bedazzled said:
Good luck in answering these... wink

Oh, and why were the engineers trying to kill us in the first place?
Haha, I'll give them a go when I get home! ; )

MocMocaMoc

1,524 posts

140 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
You seem to be making up your own story to fill in the glaring blanks that the film leaves behind.

The alien ships weren't "all over the place". In fact they didn't even know there were any ships at all until about 2/3 of the way into the film when the scanning drones have built up a picture and the captain makes one of those much talked of illogical leaps and states "it's a ship". How did he come to this conclusion just by looking at a circular shape on a computer screen? Yes he is the ships captain but considering the alien ship looks nothing like anything they would have encountered before that is an amazing leap of intuition.

They fly around a huge planet aimlessly for about 2 minutes and then immediately stumble upon the alien construction which is explained by a throwaway line, "god doesn't build straight lines". Do you realize how big a planet is? The chances of them stumbling upon one feature on an entire planet are remote in the extreme. It could have easily been explained but like many other things it isn't.

The geologist has a map on his wrist computer, generated by HIS devices but gets lost, however 5 minutes later the other team members have absolutely no problem finding there way back out again.

I can sort of forgive David being the able to work all the alien devices by the fact that he is supposed to be a super smart android but even this could have been handled better. OK it is stated that he has been studying up and can probably work out the alien language but on his first go? He just starts typing away on the first device he sees and hey presto it all works. A very quick 1 minute scene of him trying various things\combinations and then eventually working it out would have made it much more believable.

Like I said, I can forgive a lot while watching sci-fi but this film is just non-nonsensical. They seem to go from point A to C while totally missing point B which jars, as others have said it almost feels like huge bits of the film have been edited out. The plot for want of a better word is dumbed down to the extreme, non of the motivations of the characters are obvious or make sense except at the simplest level which is fine for popcorn fare but this is Ridley Scott movie and marketed as a more cerebral affair. To me it's painting by numbers sci-fi, as a prequel to the Alien movies I just expected more.
True, they did 'get lucky' but I for one am willing to assume they spent more than 2 minutes searching... Just some quick flick editing is all... The long shots of them entering the atmosphere, who's to say the crew didn't fit a couple games of Risk in between then and touch down? I certainly didnt want a film detailing the search of a apparently barren planet...

And yeah OK, so Stringer worked out it was a ship before perhaps the evidence was in. But we'd all know what it was... Do you want to watch them puzzle over it for a few more minutes? Perhaps scanning for engines, or a propulsion system? Makes for very dull viewing.

On the character note... Scott has never been an actors director. Perhaps T&L demonstrated that he could be, but his films have always been about the imagery and scale. Expecting a character portrait from this is misguided.

Alien is absolutely one of my favourite films, but this is different. And that's fine by me.

SystemParanoia

14,343 posts

197 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
they could have shown them enter a stable orbit and fire of hundreds of orbital scanning probes to quickly map the entire surface of the planet.. discover something on their awesome 3d computer, and then choose to land there.

would have added less than a min of screen time

Rick_1138

3,656 posts

177 months

Wednesday 10th October 2012
quotequote all
2 other issues that really spoiled the film for me.

1 was the alien head they took on board, they tested it and claimed it was exactly the same as human DNA. Well considering Ape and Human DNA are only different by about 3 chromosomes i find it hard to believe that 8ft tall white human like aliens would have the exact same DNA, because if they did they would look like humans, as in similar height, pigmentation, facial structure etc, okay the DNA would be very similar, but showing a grapoh where it overlaps exactly was daft.

2. the flashback holograms of the aliens show them running from something, with corpses found by the geologist and biologist with bursts chests, but this is never followed up, its ignored completely...why bother bringing it up then!