Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...

Prometheus - Ridley Scott's 'Alien Prequel' (or not)...

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Discussion

im

Original Poster:

34,302 posts

216 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Or scientists seeing alien life for the first time and being tottaly underwhelmed or scared.
[
Again, addressed by the deleted scenes section.


storminnorman

2,357 posts

151 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
saw it the other day. I'm a big alien fan but I know what films are like these days so I wasn't expecting much - however it was alright I suppose. let down by the characters.

+background details-the settings such as the ship, the planet, the alien facility etc were all pretty good
+fassbender
+"engineer" design was quite cool, especially the way they linked it in to the old "space jockey"
+other fauna was decent, some good scifi elements etc
+sequel potential

-massively underdeveloped characters. Charlize theron's hinted at so much and ended up doing nothing, not to mention how stupidly she died. same for idris elba
-felt like they were trying to cram too much in leading to things like the above
-weyland looked terribly cheap. Why on earth they didn't just get someone genuinely old looking is beyond me
-absolutely no sense of the gravity of their mission, nor was anybody fussing much when people started dying

Welshbeef

49,633 posts

197 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Am picking my blue ray copy up tomorrow- today now I guess

I'm a big Scott fan and really am an Aliens fan

dxg

8,120 posts

259 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
im said:
Having just watched it again can I just answer 1 point thats often raised...

Its about how shaw is able to run around having just had a caeserian section. The part of her stomach thats opened is heavily sprayed with a yellow anaesthetic and from that point on she jabs herself at least twice (three times if you count a deleted scene) with further pain retardent drugs which, as its the future, could make Morphine seem as effective as juju.

scratchchin I'm still thinking about the other issues but having watched the commentary version and seen how much thought and discussion went into the final cut of the film I'd be surprised if all of the criticisms levelled against it were valid.
Ok, how about this one:

at the end of the movie, when she flies off to find the engineers' home, what - exactly - is she planning to eat? I know cryrostasis is expected to be the answer but a) she's too small and doesn't have the matrix rip-off pipe work that the engineer did, and b) David isn't exactly going to be able to use the controls, is he (we're assuming, of course, that he has magically figured out how to drive the whole ship using just the flute even though the last time he was on the bridge, button pressing was also involved...

davidf4

152 posts

221 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
I don't mind things being crap or so-so, as long as people don't live in denial of it.
If you don't call film makers on this stuff, then we'll keep on being served mediocrity.
Damn fine visual effects I'm sure, but too often these days, VFX is just the glitter that turds get rolled in to hoodwink a gullible audience.

I value good acting, design work and ideas, but it can be frustrating when they fail to meet their potential because of shoddy story, scripting, direction and editing.

I really wanted this film to be the full package, but it just isn't. And that's annoying considering the budget and the amount of lead up time there was to write and then craft something brilliant.
It's that bowel movement the Phantom Menace all over again...okay, maybe that's being a bit too harsh here.

At least this thread generally acknowledges that although there are some good things about the film, there's still room for considerable improvement. Thank you for that.

croyde

22,696 posts

229 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
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Civpilot

6,235 posts

239 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
part of me thinks these guys were involved...

croyde

22,696 posts

229 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
hehe

Reardy Mister

13,757 posts

221 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
I really really enjoyed. But by the end, I found that I enjoyed it more for the foundation that it laid for my imagination, than the execution of the film itself. The execution of the film itself actually left me very frustrated, for all the places it could have gone but didn't because there was a too much filler, some cheesy dialogue, some needless gore etc.

Maybe I'm too much from the Arthur Clarke cloth for Alien franchise.

dxg

8,120 posts

259 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Civpilot said:
part of me thinks these guys were involved...
Now *that* was a good film.

Why?

Characterisation. The kids (apart from two, as the plot required) were two-dimensional because the film played to its genre in that respect.

But those three, in the labs; fantastic depth. But what else would you expect from Whedon's involvement?

im

Original Poster:

34,302 posts

216 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
What did the commentary say about the crew being dicks and the biggest dick who happens to be the map maker getting lost while in constant communication with the ship? Or the captain that didn't give a fk about them even though they were his responsibility.
I'm starting to get seriously concerned with the quality of criticisms around here now...

You say 'map maker'...please tell me who this cartographer was??? I don't recall anyone with that title. I do hope you don't mean the GEOLOGIST who deployed the mapping sensors for the ships computer to create the maps...

As for the captain not giving a fk about them, wasn't he the one who told them about the storm coming in and that they were to 'hunker down' for the night and he'd come and get them the next morning? Which he then did. What else was he supposed to do?

I do hope y'all are actually watching the film before passing comment because some of the critiques about the plot are nonsense.




Raify

6,552 posts

247 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Red Letter Media just got the DVD:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=avXZVgzLP68&fe...

Guvernator

13,103 posts

164 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
im said:
Having just watched it again can I just answer 1 point thats often raised...

Its about how shaw is able to run around having just had a caeserian section. The part of her stomach thats opened is heavily sprayed with a yellow anaesthetic and from that point on she jabs herself at least twice (three times if you count a deleted scene) with further pain retardent drugs which, as its the future, could make Morphine seem as effective as juju.

scratchchin I'm still thinking about the other issues but having watched the commentary version and seen how much thought and discussion went into the final cut of the film I'd be surprised if all of the criticisms levelled against it were valid.
We are not talking about the painkillers (although dosing up on so much so quickly should have obviously led to it's own set of problems) we are talking about the fact that she is running around, jumping etc mere minutes after she has had a her stomach opened up and stapled back together, sorry that is just silly. Her flesh has had zero time to knit\heal and those staples or painkillers aren't going to stop her abdomen from tearing open and her guts spilling out on the floor the first time she exerted herself in anyway. It would have made far more sense and pretty easy to have some sort of futuristic surgical laser to fuse\cauterise the wound and seal it back together but no they decided to use staples as it would be more shocking for the audience without thinking the rest through logically.

The film is full of these kinds of illogical misteps, done to create tension rather than to logically progress the story. Yes I know a lot of films have these but this one just takes it too far, I just found myself all to often being taken out of the film due to the ridiculousness of it. As others have said, the crap characters that I cared little about and the poor script didn't help in distracting me any either. Not really sure how anyone with more than a passing interest in films and sci-fi can try to defend this film to be honest, it's just very average to poor throughtout, I would have expected and accepted this from the director of AvP but not from someone of Ridley Scott's calibre

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
im said:
Pesty said:
What did the commentary say about the crew being dicks and the biggest dick who happens to be the map maker getting lost while in constant communication with the ship? Or the captain that didn't give a fk about them even though they were his responsibility.
I'm starting to get seriously concerned with the quality of criticisms around here now...

You say 'map maker'...please tell me who this cartographer was??? I don't recall anyone with that title. I do hope you don't mean the GEOLOGIST who deployed the mapping sensors for the ships computer to create the maps...

As for the captain not giving a fk about them, wasn't he the one who told them about the storm coming in and that they were to 'hunker down' for the night and he'd come and get them the next morning? Which he then did. What else was he supposed to do?

I do hope y'all are actually watching the film before passing comment because some of the critiques about the plot are nonsense.
I have now watched the film three times - once at the cinema and twice on DVD - the plot and the totally irrational/non-professional behaviour of the crew still spoils it. A film cannot be enjoyable on the basis of fine CGI alone - didn't Scott learn this from Lucas?

Pesty

42,655 posts

255 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
im said:
I'm starting to get seriously concerned with the quality of criticisms around here now...

You say 'map maker'...please tell me who this cartographer was??? I don't recall anyone with that title. I do hope you don't mean the GEOLOGIST who deployed the mapping sensors for the ships computer to create the maps...
Yeas i mean the geologist who did no geologising* just swore at everybody and was a nasty bd who would not have got on the crew in the first place. That's exactly what you need on a mission like that an argumentative child.

  • made up word.

Yes the geologist who got lost when all he had to do was call the ship for them to guide him out before the storm hit not keep walking around lost before it was too late.

Ok i get it you liked it I'm happy for you. I'm not at all concerned at all that fans are overlooking obvious flaws though, it happens.



Edited by Pesty on Sunday 14th October 15:30

Civpilot

6,235 posts

239 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
dxg said:
Civpilot said:
part of me thinks these guys were involved...
Now *that* was a good film.

Why?

Characterisation. The kids (apart from two, as the plot required) were two-dimensional because the film played to its genre in that respect.

But those three, in the labs; fantastic depth. But what else would you expect from Whedon's involvement?
Completely agree... Someone asked me what it was about and without spoilers it is the single hardest movie to explain. Really loved it.

And I really want to know who "Kevin" is winklaugh

In fact from this point on, if I watch a movie where the main protagonists do stupid things that get themselves in a whole heap of trouble.... I'll be just nodding my head thinking of those three watching on the monitors hehe

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Yeas i mean the geologist who did no geologising* just swore at everybody and was a nasty bd who would not have got on the crew in the first place. That's exactly what you need on a mission like that an argumentative child.

  • made up word.

Yes the geologist who got lost when all he had to do was call the ship for them to guide him out before the storm hit not keep walking around lost before it was too late.

Ok i get it you liked it I'm happy for you. I'm not at all concerned at all that fans are overlooking obvious flaws though, it happens.



Edited by Pesty on Sunday 14th October 15:30
I agree - that 'Geologist' acted like he had the mental capacity as someone who had little education and had a few too many at his local. (In a hundred year's time, will 'experts' sport hairstyles like that, with matching stupid tattoos on their head!) I would assume that these guys were picked for such a historically important trip because they were very crem de la crem in their respective fields of expertise - not only that, but trained to the Nth degree for any situation before launching. Instead, we witness a group of 'thugs' who act like they were all press-ganged from their local boozer. As I wrote a while back, Roger Corman was making this kind of B-Movie hokum a lot better 30-40 years ago.

im

Original Poster:

34,302 posts

216 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Guvernator said:
im said:
Having just watched it again can I just answer 1 point thats often raised...

Its about how shaw is able to run around having just had a caeserian section. The part of her stomach thats opened is heavily sprayed with a yellow anaesthetic and from that point on she jabs herself at least twice (three times if you count a deleted scene) with further pain retardent drugs which, as its the future, could make Morphine seem as effective as juju.

scratchchin I'm still thinking about the other issues but having watched the commentary version and seen how much thought and discussion went into the final cut of the film I'd be surprised if all of the criticisms levelled against it were valid.
We are not talking about the painkillers (although dosing up on so much so quickly should have obviously led to it's own set of problems) we are talking about the fact that she is running around, jumping etc mere minutes after she has had a her stomach opened up and stapled back together, sorry that is just silly. Her flesh has had zero time to knit\heal and those staples or painkillers aren't going to stop her abdomen from tearing open and her guts spilling out on the floor the first time she exerted herself in anyway. It would have made far more sense and pretty easy to have some sort of futuristic surgical laser to fuse\cauterise the wound and seal it back together but no they decided to use staples as it would be more shocking for the audience without thinking the rest through logically.

The film is full of these kinds of illogical misteps, done to create tension rather than to logically progress the story. Yes I know a lot of films have these but this one just takes it too far, I just found myself all to often being taken out of the film due to the ridiculousness of it. As others have said, the crap characters that I cared little about and the poor script didn't help in distracting me any either. Not really sure how anyone with more than a passing interest in films and sci-fi can try to defend this film to be honest, it's just very average to poor throughtout, I would have expected and accepted this from the director of AvP but not from someone of Ridley Scott's calibre
Look, I'm not defending the film just deriding some of the piss poor criticisms of it - not yours in particular by the way Having 31 of those staples the length of my arm at the moment your point is valid but not by as big a distance as you might think. I was able to use my arm ALMOST immediately but not as strenuously as the film depicts. I was certainly able to lift objects within a very short space of time. Artistic licence I suppose.

I'm disappointed with the film but some of the plot holes being mentioned are non-existent.

thumbup

chris watton

22,477 posts

259 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
im said:
I'm disappointed with the film but some of the plot holes being mentioned are non-existent.

thumbup
....As is any plot....

im

Original Poster:

34,302 posts

216 months

Sunday 14th October 2012
quotequote all
Pesty said:
Yes the geologist who got lost when all he had to do was call the ship for them to guide him out before the storm hit not keep walking around lost before it was too late.
Sorry, but hadn't the cartographer Geologist already wandered off when he was informed that the storm was about to hit? Didn't they decide that it was therefore too late for them to make it back to the ship in time?

Ergo..."hunker down...."

And again, you say "I get that you liked the film"...where have I said that?!?!

I'm just not gonna make ill thought out criticisms based upon my general dislike of it.

Look here's a proper, well thought out criticism of Aliens:

How does Ripley hang on to a ladder while a power loader suit, an alien queen and the vacuum of space itself are pulling against her. It would actually be an accomplishment to last more than a split second with any of those 3. Indeed its a physically impossibity.

But people overlook this due to their general love of the film. The opposite appears to be happening here.

Edited by im on Sunday 14th October 16:59